r/Firefighting • u/Launch_Rockface • Jul 10 '25

General Discussion Unpopular Opinions In the Fire Service

I am curious what other peoples unpopular opinions of the fire service are? I know there are alot of things we are doing or trying to do to improve the fire service as far as training and wellness, but I also know alot of it is just not that great in my opinion.

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273

u/Strict-Canary-4175 Jul 11 '25

I don’t like fucking with the new kids that much. I expect them to do most of the work, let them take a nap and eat first.

I believe in being good at EMS. Yeah I don’t like it either, definitely not my first choice. But it’s so much of our job and there’s really not an excuse to be shitty at it.

I don’t believe in wearing fire gear for things besides drill and fire runs. I will never force my guys to wear bunker pants on EMS runs because they have shorts or sweats on because they were working out or sleeping. The gear is killing us and people don’t want that dirty shit in their house anyway.

This job can’t be your whole life, and personality. Leave your whacker t shirts at home and get a hobby that doesn’t have anything to do with the job.

25

u/locknloadchode TX FF/Medic Jul 11 '25

In regards to your first paragraph, do you work at a department with high turnover? I felt like this at my first department because I was always having some new rookie to mentor. I hated it because I swore I would never become that guy when I had first started, and that I would always be a senior man that a rookie could come to with even the dumbest questions.

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u/Strict-Canary-4175 Jul 11 '25

There is almost zero turnover. MAYBE one person separates per year, and we hire 100ish people per year. So there are lots of new guys because there’s a lot of guys in general.

I feel the same way. I remember the people who answered questions, supported me, helped me when I was new. I will always try to be the person that new kids can come to as well. Not only that, but in my opinion if the only thing I see a guy saying to the new kids is to put them down or roll a ball, I automatically think that he’s only saying negative shit because he doesn’t have anything to teach them. And they don’t have anything to teach them because THEY don’t know their job very well.

24

u/tacosmuggler99 Jul 11 '25

I’ve always felt I work for my probies. What I mean by that is a huge factor in whether they’re good or not is what myself and the crew teach them. You’ll always get some that just dont give a shit, but most are open and receptive. If I’m being a dick I’m doing them, myself and the department a disservice.

11

u/Strict-Canary-4175 Jul 11 '25

Yes. That’s a super good point. You ARE a factor in if they’re good or not. And then when you send them into the world, and they take details everyone else will see how they behave. And the boys will know who trained them!

16

u/mad-i-moody Jul 11 '25

As a probie myself I appreciate people like you guys. The guys who have been on for years and “recline by 9” and heave a giant sigh when I ask for simple help or explanation on something just suck.

16

u/FloodedHoseBed career firefighter Jul 11 '25

Running booters into the ground and treating them like the stations maid slave boils my blood. Absolutely they should do some extras but abusing the booter and making them doing every ast thing and especially not taking them out to train and get better is such fucking bullshit and it’s so normalized in the fire service.

23

u/Direct-Training9217 Jul 11 '25

I agree with everything you say (your job is to train the rookie, his job is to work hard), except....

My unpopular opinion is that PFAS in gear is overblown. There aren't a ton of studies on it and the big ones study PFAS in drinking water. Those aren't super conclusive and obviously drinking water is way more direct and way more frequent exposure. Honestly sleep deprivation and being out of shape probably cause more cancer than the PFAS. Obviously don't wear your gear 24/7 but putting on bunker pants for an EMS call or working out in gear is not as big a deal (imo) as people make it. I workout in gear once a tour, because I think that being comfortable and cardiovascularly prepared is worth the trade off

8

u/BriGuy550 Jul 11 '25

I share your opinion about PFAS. There is way more risk from wearing around contaminated gear that hasn’t been cleaned. Are there even studies out there directly relating it to fire gear? It’s present in nearly all good quality waterproof clothing people wear every day.

4

u/evanka5281 Jul 11 '25

This right here. I make eggs on a non-stick pan every morning that’s coated in PFAS. My raincoat has PFAS. This whole thing seems to me like something Edzo pushed to force out Schaitberger. It’s been years since he took over as president of the international and he still makes this claim of “the companies knew and were paying Harold to keep quiet” at every major conference. He paid Mark Ruffalo to star in a short film about it. It just wreaks of propaganda.

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u/Strict-Canary-4175 Jul 11 '25

“Being out of shape and Sleep deprivation causes more cancer” No it doesn’t. For a few reasons.

The first one is because sleep deprivation doesn’t cause cancer. Secondly, because yeah. It’s the gear. There definitely are studies on it, but let’s say all of the data was just things we can observe.

If it’s not the gear why do firemen get cancer at such an elevated rate? Why is a majority of the cancer we get inside where our bunker pants are (bladder, prostate, colon, uterine)? And we wear those more often than the rest of our gear? Seems like maybe it’s the gear.

And if it’s the sleep deprivation and being out of shape, why isn’t cancer effecting fat guys who work a ton of overtime more often? It doesn’t. So it seems like that’s not the problem. Matter of fact; I was eating so clean it was almost an ED and running ultra marathons when I got diagnosed with cancer. So I don’t think it was that I was fat and sleepy.

I also had to have pretty extensive genetic testing done when I had cancer because I was abandoned at birth so I have no family history. In which they found that my cancer was occupational. From the PFAS in the gear.

If you want to work out in gear, go ahead. Save that money and that time though because your city isn’t going to go out of their way for you. Good luck big dog

22

u/Fly_throwaway37 Jul 11 '25

The fuck did I just read? Sleep deprivation absolutely is linked to cancer.

-10

u/Strict-Canary-4175 Jul 11 '25

You just read me say that sleep deprivation and being out of shape doesn’t cause more cancer in firemen than PFAs. Could you read it this time?

3

u/MudHammock Jul 11 '25

You literally said word for word "sleep deprivation doesn't cause cancer"

Yes, it can contribute to it. You're overly opinionated and under educated. And condescending, which makes it worse since you're absolutely in the wrong.

From John Hopkins

"Disruptions in the body’s “biological clock,” which controls sleep and thousands of other functions, may raise the odds of cancers of the breast, colon, ovaries and prostate. Exposure to light while working overnight shifts for several years may reduce levels of melatonin, encouraging cancer to grow."

Sounds pretty relevant to EMS. And look, two of the cancers mentioned are also the two you mentioned the fire service disproportionately suffers from.

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u/Strict-Canary-4175 Jul 11 '25

“May raise odds of cancer” Isn’t the same thing as being a carcinogen.

2

u/MudHammock Jul 11 '25

Who said it was? Being obese isn't a carcinogen, but we can all agree that it contributes to cancer development. What is your argument here?

0

u/Strict-Canary-4175 Jul 11 '25

The comment I was responding to said that sleep deprivation causes more cancer in firemen than PFAs. My argument is that it doesn’t.

3

u/MudHammock Jul 11 '25

He said that sleep deprivation AND being out of shape PROBABLY causes more cancer than PFAs (which is completely possible).

You said "sleep deprivation doesn't cause cancer" and I responded to that. Then you made some strange remark about how bad sleep isn't carcinogenic.

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u/Direct-Training9217 Jul 11 '25

First off, I'm really sorry to hear about your cancer diagnosis and I hope you're doing better.

"first one is because sleep deprivation doesn't cause cancer." Respectfully that's not true, there is a lot of science that says it does. Especially interrupted sleep

Being in shape and working out lowers your chances of getting cancer. Doesn't remove it.

We don't get cancer that much more than the general population. We're 9% more likely, which isn't ideal but that's not a huge difference.

Occupational cancer is usually tied to carcinogens and smoke exposure. But I will say you would definitely know more than me about that since you're going through it yourself.

Like I said it's an unpopular opinion.

Stay safe and healthy, hope you come back stronger than ever 

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u/Strict-Canary-4175 Jul 11 '25

You’re right I do know more about it.

Thanks for explaining all of that to me anyway. Take care.

2

u/not-ur-usual-thought Jul 11 '25

I am sorry for you. I hope you get rid of it!

Can you explain for a foreign colleague:

Are the problems caused because of PFAS in the production materials of the fire gear? Or because the fire gear is not properly cleaned after use?

9

u/Strict-Canary-4175 Jul 11 '25

It’s in the material. Specifically a layer of the gear (made by 3m) that has to pass the UV light degradation test. The only substance that can pass the test for 40 hours is PFAs. The test is unnecessary, and thus the material is also unnecessary but the NFPA won’t remove it from the standard that requires it.

2

u/not-ur-usual-thought Jul 11 '25

Thank you for clarifying.

0

u/timmy6591 Jul 11 '25

Categorically wrong on all counts. Your anecdotal observations don't outweigh numerous scientific studies showing the opposite.

1

u/Strict-Canary-4175 Jul 11 '25

Showing that….. our gear doesn’t cause cancer? What studies? Show that work

1

u/timmy6591 Jul 18 '25 edited Jul 18 '25

No, you assertion that sleep deprivation doesn't cause cancer. 1000% wrong. The gear contributes but you're not in fires wearing the gear every shift. You are getting poor/disrupted sleep on every shift. Here's my work.

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-024-19313-z

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7953221

https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/oncology/articles/10.3389/fonc.2024.1336487/full

https://bmccancer.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12885-023-11392-2

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0074723

Immune system suppression: One night with only 4 hours of sleep causes a ~70% drop in natural killer (NK) cell activity in healthy adults—cells vital for eliminating early-stage cancer cells

Animal study evidence: Mice with restricted sleep developed tumors ~200% larger and experienced metastasis, even when stress-induced factors were controlled

Aging and immunity: As people age, sleep quality declines—compromising adaptive immune defenses and increasing vulnerability to cancer

Sleep as a regulatory keystone: Adequate sleep supports DNA repair, immune surveillance, and hormonal balance—acting as a foundational component in cancer prevention .

https://peterattiamd.com/fighting-cancer-improving-immune-function-with-sleep/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

0

u/TheAlmightyTOzz Jul 11 '25

Tommy Gavin wore his turnout pants the majority to the entirety of his tour. Tommy also drank a lot. At times he drank between calls. Tommy was constantly bangin out the baddest bitches in NYC. Tommy was the Sr. on his crew. I would give my next nursing home patient a 60cc air emboli through a 16ga to just have Tommy as a Sr. Man.

1

u/mjh127 Jul 11 '25

I appreciate it

6

u/-kielbasa Jul 11 '25

Sometimes it’s nice having bunker pants on when you’re kneeling in some bodily fluids

7

u/Strict-Canary-4175 Jul 11 '25

And I will fight for your right to have the choice to put them on if you want. I just said I won’t force my guys do wear them.

And you didn’t ask for help, but I would also maybe just..,. No kneel in body fluids. You really shouldn’t have that on your bunker gear either. And that’s like totally avoidable so.

1

u/-kielbasa Jul 11 '25

Sometimes it’s unavoidable

1

u/Strict-Canary-4175 Jul 11 '25

We’ll have to agree to disagree on that one lol. I have never found it unavoidable but hey, everyone is different!

1

u/-kielbasa Jul 11 '25

I work on a military base with shitty Korean War era buildings that have been chopped up 10 different ways over the years. Lots of weird small nooks with offices and hallways and stuff.

We take over compressions and package and move them once EMT’s arrive. We don’t do transport ourselves

5

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '25

[deleted]

5

u/-kielbasa Jul 11 '25

You guys don’t have a second set of gear?

3

u/Zimmer0512 FL Career Jul 11 '25

Good stuff.

3

u/tamman2000 Jul 11 '25

I'm a volly with about 18 months in my department.

We have a 23 year old on my department that shows up to lift assists in boots and bunker pants. I haven't said anything about it yet (partly because we're a really small town and I live a lot closer than he does to most of our calls, so I've only noticed that it's consistent in the last week. Also, he's the chief's son) but I can't imagine why he would show up in POV then put on bunker pants to walk into someone's house when there is no risk of fire. It's one thing if you were training when you caught a medical call, but it's another to put them on just for the call so you can track soot into a stranger's house.

It reeks of "look, I'm a firefighter". No shit you're a firefighter. They called 911 and you showed up.

1

u/Benny303 Jul 12 '25

A lot of the arguments I see against it is "tracking soot and carcinogens in people's homes" but you should be washing your gear after every fire with the proper detergent. Then that's a non issue.

2

u/tamman2000 Jul 12 '25

The washing is imperfect, and the boots are the part of the kit that gets the least attention in a wash.

2

u/yourname92 Jul 11 '25

I can say I agree with this 100%.

1

u/Excellent-Plane-574 Jul 11 '25

Curious about your bunker pants on EMS runs statement. Do you just have them put on normal station pants or let them go in sweats and shorts?

3

u/Strict-Canary-4175 Jul 11 '25

They can go in the sweats/shorts.

1

u/Southern-Hearing8904 Jul 11 '25

This is not a bad take at all.

1

u/PeakyLifter Jul 12 '25

Someone promote this guy.