r/Firefighting • u/Launch_Rockface • Jul 10 '25

General Discussion Unpopular Opinions In the Fire Service

I am curious what other peoples unpopular opinions of the fire service are? I know there are alot of things we are doing or trying to do to improve the fire service as far as training and wellness, but I also know alot of it is just not that great in my opinion.

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u/Direct-Training9217 Jul 11 '25

I agree with everything you say (your job is to train the rookie, his job is to work hard), except....

My unpopular opinion is that PFAS in gear is overblown. There aren't a ton of studies on it and the big ones study PFAS in drinking water. Those aren't super conclusive and obviously drinking water is way more direct and way more frequent exposure. Honestly sleep deprivation and being out of shape probably cause more cancer than the PFAS. Obviously don't wear your gear 24/7 but putting on bunker pants for an EMS call or working out in gear is not as big a deal (imo) as people make it. I workout in gear once a tour, because I think that being comfortable and cardiovascularly prepared is worth the trade off

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u/BriGuy550 Jul 11 '25

I share your opinion about PFAS. There is way more risk from wearing around contaminated gear that hasn’t been cleaned. Are there even studies out there directly relating it to fire gear? It’s present in nearly all good quality waterproof clothing people wear every day.

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u/evanka5281 Jul 11 '25

This right here. I make eggs on a non-stick pan every morning that’s coated in PFAS. My raincoat has PFAS. This whole thing seems to me like something Edzo pushed to force out Schaitberger. It’s been years since he took over as president of the international and he still makes this claim of “the companies knew and were paying Harold to keep quiet” at every major conference. He paid Mark Ruffalo to star in a short film about it. It just wreaks of propaganda.

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u/Strict-Canary-4175 Jul 11 '25

“Being out of shape and Sleep deprivation causes more cancer” No it doesn’t. For a few reasons.

The first one is because sleep deprivation doesn’t cause cancer. Secondly, because yeah. It’s the gear. There definitely are studies on it, but let’s say all of the data was just things we can observe.

If it’s not the gear why do firemen get cancer at such an elevated rate? Why is a majority of the cancer we get inside where our bunker pants are (bladder, prostate, colon, uterine)? And we wear those more often than the rest of our gear? Seems like maybe it’s the gear.

And if it’s the sleep deprivation and being out of shape, why isn’t cancer effecting fat guys who work a ton of overtime more often? It doesn’t. So it seems like that’s not the problem. Matter of fact; I was eating so clean it was almost an ED and running ultra marathons when I got diagnosed with cancer. So I don’t think it was that I was fat and sleepy.

I also had to have pretty extensive genetic testing done when I had cancer because I was abandoned at birth so I have no family history. In which they found that my cancer was occupational. From the PFAS in the gear.

If you want to work out in gear, go ahead. Save that money and that time though because your city isn’t going to go out of their way for you. Good luck big dog

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u/Fly_throwaway37 Jul 11 '25

The fuck did I just read? Sleep deprivation absolutely is linked to cancer.

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u/Strict-Canary-4175 Jul 11 '25

You just read me say that sleep deprivation and being out of shape doesn’t cause more cancer in firemen than PFAs. Could you read it this time?

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u/MudHammock Jul 11 '25

You literally said word for word "sleep deprivation doesn't cause cancer"

Yes, it can contribute to it. You're overly opinionated and under educated. And condescending, which makes it worse since you're absolutely in the wrong.

From John Hopkins

"Disruptions in the body’s “biological clock,” which controls sleep and thousands of other functions, may raise the odds of cancers of the breast, colon, ovaries and prostate. Exposure to light while working overnight shifts for several years may reduce levels of melatonin, encouraging cancer to grow."

Sounds pretty relevant to EMS. And look, two of the cancers mentioned are also the two you mentioned the fire service disproportionately suffers from.

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u/Strict-Canary-4175 Jul 11 '25

“May raise odds of cancer” Isn’t the same thing as being a carcinogen.

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u/MudHammock Jul 11 '25

Who said it was? Being obese isn't a carcinogen, but we can all agree that it contributes to cancer development. What is your argument here?

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u/Strict-Canary-4175 Jul 11 '25

The comment I was responding to said that sleep deprivation causes more cancer in firemen than PFAs. My argument is that it doesn’t.

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u/MudHammock Jul 11 '25

He said that sleep deprivation AND being out of shape PROBABLY causes more cancer than PFAs (which is completely possible).

You said "sleep deprivation doesn't cause cancer" and I responded to that. Then you made some strange remark about how bad sleep isn't carcinogenic.

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u/Strict-Canary-4175 Jul 11 '25

Saying that those things cause cancer more than carcinogens isn’t based on anything at all.

I said sleep deprivation isn’t a carcinogen. I’m not sure what you think is strange about that.

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u/Direct-Training9217 Jul 11 '25

First off, I'm really sorry to hear about your cancer diagnosis and I hope you're doing better.

"first one is because sleep deprivation doesn't cause cancer." Respectfully that's not true, there is a lot of science that says it does. Especially interrupted sleep

Being in shape and working out lowers your chances of getting cancer. Doesn't remove it.

We don't get cancer that much more than the general population. We're 9% more likely, which isn't ideal but that's not a huge difference.

Occupational cancer is usually tied to carcinogens and smoke exposure. But I will say you would definitely know more than me about that since you're going through it yourself.

Like I said it's an unpopular opinion.

Stay safe and healthy, hope you come back stronger than ever 

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u/Strict-Canary-4175 Jul 11 '25

You’re right I do know more about it.

Thanks for explaining all of that to me anyway. Take care.

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u/not-ur-usual-thought Jul 11 '25

I am sorry for you. I hope you get rid of it!

Can you explain for a foreign colleague:

Are the problems caused because of PFAS in the production materials of the fire gear? Or because the fire gear is not properly cleaned after use?

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u/Strict-Canary-4175 Jul 11 '25

It’s in the material. Specifically a layer of the gear (made by 3m) that has to pass the UV light degradation test. The only substance that can pass the test for 40 hours is PFAs. The test is unnecessary, and thus the material is also unnecessary but the NFPA won’t remove it from the standard that requires it.

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u/not-ur-usual-thought Jul 11 '25

Thank you for clarifying.

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u/timmy6591 Jul 11 '25

Categorically wrong on all counts. Your anecdotal observations don't outweigh numerous scientific studies showing the opposite.

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u/Strict-Canary-4175 Jul 11 '25

Showing that….. our gear doesn’t cause cancer? What studies? Show that work

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u/timmy6591 Jul 18 '25 edited Jul 18 '25

No, you assertion that sleep deprivation doesn't cause cancer. 1000% wrong. The gear contributes but you're not in fires wearing the gear every shift. You are getting poor/disrupted sleep on every shift. Here's my work.

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-024-19313-z

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7953221

https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/oncology/articles/10.3389/fonc.2024.1336487/full

https://bmccancer.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12885-023-11392-2

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0074723

Immune system suppression: One night with only 4 hours of sleep causes a ~70% drop in natural killer (NK) cell activity in healthy adults—cells vital for eliminating early-stage cancer cells

Animal study evidence: Mice with restricted sleep developed tumors ~200% larger and experienced metastasis, even when stress-induced factors were controlled

Aging and immunity: As people age, sleep quality declines—compromising adaptive immune defenses and increasing vulnerability to cancer

Sleep as a regulatory keystone: Adequate sleep supports DNA repair, immune surveillance, and hormonal balance—acting as a foundational component in cancer prevention .

https://peterattiamd.com/fighting-cancer-improving-immune-function-with-sleep/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

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u/TheAlmightyTOzz Jul 11 '25

Tommy Gavin wore his turnout pants the majority to the entirety of his tour. Tommy also drank a lot. At times he drank between calls. Tommy was constantly bangin out the baddest bitches in NYC. Tommy was the Sr. on his crew. I would give my next nursing home patient a 60cc air emboli through a 16ga to just have Tommy as a Sr. Man.

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u/mjh127 Jul 11 '25

I appreciate it