r/Firefighting • u/aidan_rico • 7d ago
General Discussion “Cancel the balance” meaning
What does this mean over the radio?
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u/Strict-Canary-4175 7d ago edited 7d ago
It means they don’t need the rest of the one alarm compliment. They can handle with who they have on scene.
EDIT: seeing in the comments that this is not a common thing, so I will expand my answer a bit. You’re going to hear this in larger, older fire departments that held on to some of the language from when they used fire boxes.
Just speaking for myself, as I’m sure it varies, but for a suspected fire, we get a still alarm compliment. If you get there; and it’s a fire, we use the term “knock the box” to get the balance of the one alarm compliment.
Conversely, if you get dispatched to a still alarm and it’s nothing, you can “cancel the compliment” and that just means that you don’t need everyone else because it’s nothing and you’ve got it.
It could also happen on an entrapment. If you get dispatched for an auto accident and it’s actually an entrapment, you ask for “the entrapment compliment”. Same goes for canceling the balance.
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u/Agreeable-Emu886 7d ago
My dept/area does it in a similar but different way.
We still use street, master and radio boxes. We assign a street box to all incidents if they’re not associated with a master box. So a telephone alarm gets the nearest street box etc.. Our version of this would be to recall the box. So I assume command workman on scene etc.. fire alarm from command recall the box holding engine 1.. it cuts any other trucks responding etc. same concept for a call for a house fire.
We classify non fire related calls as still alarms, MVAs, meds, CO, local alarms etc.. If my still alarm was something more could either strike a box or call the working fire outright.
Each state/region has its own little area. A lot of the metro boston communities still tap boxes out via the 100 mil system or via radio.
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u/GooseG97 Vol. Firefighter/Paramedic 7d ago
We use it here on the west coast in my area. Cancel the balance means cancel the balance of the assignment, so if two engines and an ambulance are on scene of whatever assignment, the incoming units not yet on scene can cancel.
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u/Far-Associate8764 7d ago
We use it with my department in California, it means cancel anyone not on scene or named as a need still, radio traffic would be "dispatch... IC..." "Go ahead IC" "ENGINE 1 and 2 on scene and can handle, cancel the balance with exception of water tender H2O" "Copy cancel balance except water tender H2O"
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u/sosowhatnow 7d ago
Yeah, usually "we'll hold with on scene units, cancel the balance" meaning whoever else is enroute. Where it came from, I don't know. But you can say that about a lot of things we say and do 🤷♂️
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u/newenglandpolarbear radio go beep 7d ago
Never heard this here in New England. Around here it's usually "All other companies to go in-service" or " All others can hold"
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u/Mediocre_Daikon6935 7d ago
It is basic English transmitted in the clear, I’m not sure what the confusion could be.
Cancel any units not currently committed but that were automatically dispatched based on the run cards.
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u/llama-de-fuego 7d ago
Confusion can be from it not being a common phrase in your department. I've been in 17 years and never heard it until this thread.
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u/HazMatsMan Career Co. Officer 7d ago
Heard it once on my department from someone trying to sound like FDNY.
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u/quattro725121 7d ago
Yeah we also have people in nearby departments doing the same thing. Every time it happens, dispatch has to ask for clarification and the whole thing takes twice as long as it could have if they just asked for whatever they needed like a normal person.
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u/Mediocre_Daikon6935 7d ago
I’ve never heard the phrase in my life.
But the meaning is pretty clear.
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u/Cinnimonbuns TX FF/Paramedic 7d ago
There was zero context given.
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u/Mediocre_Daikon6935 7d ago
Over the radio.
Is context.
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u/Cinnimonbuns TX FF/Paramedic 7d ago
Youre right youre so smart
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u/Mediocre_Daikon6935 7d ago
It has nothing to do with being smart.
It is just basic English.
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u/Impressive_Change593 VA volly 6d ago
but the phrase is bad. sure if you know what it means then you know. if it's not an officially taught thing then you shouldn't be using it
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u/Mediocre_Daikon6935 6d ago
I’ve never been taught any radio terms in my life, because plain speech has been the standard for well over 20 years.
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u/BlitzieKun Career, Tx 7d ago
That's a phrase I've never seen before.
We just use "disregard units, hold X, Y, Z" as well as tapping out units.
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u/WaxedHalligan4407 7d ago
Once we're talking about things people say on the radio, do you folks do, "Dispatch from IC" or "IC to Dispatch" in your department?
I always thought it made more sense to mention the unit you're calling first to perk their ears up, then tell them who you are (Dispatch from IC) but our area has always been "IC to Dispatch". As far as I know, so are all the neighboring counties as well. Any idea on where the "them from you" came from vs the "you to them" dialogue?
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u/Mediocre_Daikon6935 7d ago
You this is me is how it is supposed to be done.
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u/Imaginary-Anybody542 7d ago
Really? Because I’ve heard “this is a message from me to you” in a lot of places.
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u/Mediocre_Daikon6935 6d ago edited 6d ago
Yea, that is wrong, and yea, I’m sure you hear it a lot. It increases risk the content of the transmission will be be missed.
Especially on networks (channels) with multiple users (like say, a dispatch channel/ or the county primary every ones talk channel).
It comes down to training, and not enforcing proper communication, which largely has to be crew driven.
Example: even though I know there is absolutely nothing wrong, at all, with civilian, fire/EMS saying “repeat” on the radio, meaning say what you said again, your last broadcast…it….catches my ear every time, because it is “wrong”.
Why?
Because in the military “repeat” has an extremely specific meaning. It is a command. It means fire your last mission again. Same data, no adjustments. So it is an extremely big deal to not say that word.
Because if a gun team hears that word? They care going to be sending rounds out the cannon. And if it is a mortar team, they’ll be doing it before a mere mortal can realize their error.
So the training (and correction) on not using that word? Taken fairly seriously.
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u/Imaginary-Anybody542 6d ago
Worked for me for the last 17 years with no errors…. 60 plus operational rigs, multiple command and tac channels with daily call volume in the hundreds 🤷🏽♂️. Guess as long as it works it works
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u/Strict-Canary-4175 7d ago
Generally we don’t say “to command” or “to dispatch” at all. We just key the radio and say who you are and what the message is. If I’m on main, they know who I’m talking to. Who else would I be talking to?
When communicating with another unit, it would be me to you
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u/chuckfinley79 27 looooooooooooooong years 7d ago
THERE IS NO RIGHT WAY EXCEPT THE WAY MY DEPARTMENT DOES IT!!! /s
What normal in your area is normal in your area, what’s normal somewhere else is normal there. It’s not a big deal.
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u/Ok_Situation1469 6d ago
I think everyone has some sort of terminology for "don't send anyone else to the scene." We usually say somthing like "remaining units to stage in quarters"
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u/Whatisthisnonsense22 6d ago
'Cancel the box response and hold all units on scene' would be the same thing here. I have never heard that specific phrase, but i understood its meaning as soon as I did.
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7d ago edited 1d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Dusty_V2 Career + Paid-on-call 7d ago
You know there's like, many many different regions of the country and even world? Where different verbiage may be commonplace over the radio? Kinda like how it's a tanker truck or tender truck depending on where you are?
Clear radio communication can absolutely vary from location to location.
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u/Agreeable-Emu886 7d ago
If it’s used in your area and would be commonly known, than it’s clear text. My department strikes boxes, and we’d recall the box instead of canceling the balance. That is absolutely clear text and every mutual aide department of mine would understand it. Completely different than shit like 10 codes
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u/boomboomown Career FF/PM 7d ago
That honestly sounds like a you issue. It's pretty self explanatory and if it's a common phrase your department uses, im sure you'd understand it
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u/Mediocre_Daikon6935 7d ago
It is perfectly clear if you know what the words cancel & balance mean.
I’ve never heard the term. But it is perfectly clear.
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u/boedirtspurs 7d ago
The Phoenix metro area uses that verbiage daily. If there’s a house fire dispatched, and then the first in unit gets on scene and finds that it’s just food on stove and out on arrival, they would come up and say “Engine 1 to alarm, this is food on the stove, you can hold engine 1 and ladder 1, put the rest of the balance available.” The rest of the responding units would u-turn back home. That’s how their radio language works. But i could see how other departments or areas don’t adhere to that.
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u/Democrrracy-Manifest 6d ago edited 6d ago
Well, unless you’re a dispatcher, you wouldn’t really need to know what it means. That phrase is directed to dispatch. In my old agency, dispatch would copy it, break, play the two beeps over the air, then announce which units weren’t on scene yet and issue a cancel order for all of them.
For example, let’s say I’m Engine 21 responding to a reported vegetation fire. Let’s say the standard response is six engines and a chief. I arrive on scene and Engine 22 from my house arrives right after me. I, as first on scene, determine it’s small enough for us to handle. Since it’s fire season, I don’t want to tie up other stations’ resources when something else bigger might pop off in the county. The radio traffic would go something like this:
Me: “Central, Engine 21.”
Dispatch: “Engine 21, go ahead.”
Me: “Engine 22 and myself at scene. It’s gonna be a 10 by 10 spot (fire), light grass, two foot flames, no wind, no structures threatened, units at scene can handle, cancel the balance.”
Dispatch: “Engine 21, Engine 22 at scene.”
(Two beeps over the air)
Dispatch: “Engine 23, Engine 28, Engine 20, Engine 64, Battalion Chief 20, cancel response, return to quarters.”
This was a very large West Coast agency.
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u/Final-Field-2677 7d ago
It means I get to go back to the house and poop