r/Firefighting • u/Obviouslythrowaway_- • 2d ago
General Discussion Fire vs Fire/EMS Departments
What has your experience been in either department? All I keep hearing is guys complain about how EMS departments are dreadful and miserable but get paid more. When, in my area I hear that the big City (fire only) gets paid the most and has the best benefits. Have I been lied to this whole time? Are there ANY benefits to EMS departments?
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u/Jumpy_Secretary_1517 2d ago
I picked my department in part because they’d pay for medic school and are EMS heavy. I love it. I’m an outlier, though. When I’m on an engine, I honestly rarely get the feeling that I’m truly helping anyone but instead running false alarms. When I’m on the ambulance it feels like I’m making an actual, tangible difference and it fills my cup. I also love going to the ER, talking with doctors, getting to know nurses, and getting to see patient follow ups.
I’d quit if I were on the engine all the time. That job would be boring AF
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u/BasicGunNut TX Career 21h ago
It takes all kinds, someone has to do it so the rest of us aren’t forced to.
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u/CohoWind 2d ago
Here in my west coast state, there is virtually no such thing as a fire-only fire department, thankfully. Whether a department actually transports or not, all respond on medical calls, and have for many many decades. That includes the biggest cities and the tiniest all-volunteer FDs. Like it or not, most FDs in the west are all-risk agencies, and EMS is an integral part of their daily duties. I spent 30 years on the job here, and the department provided the required EMT-B training during rookie school. It was part of my FF job description. I can’t imagine having spent those decades on the job without running EMS calls, and being so tuned-out to my community’s needs.
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u/pizzaerry2days 2d ago
I think the difference is big between fire departments that transport and those that don’t. I’ve never worked for a non-EMS department but I’ve worked for transport and non-transport. I prefer non-transport because we don’t respond to the lowest level EMS calls (initially/theoretically) as they are triaged by dispatched.
However I cannot imagine being fire only and honestly think I would be bored out of my mind running gas leaks, alarms, car wrecks and the occasional fire only. In the thousands of calls I’ve been on all my best stories and the ones I truly remember are EMS calls or at least involved me giving EMS care. The actual structures and such I’ve mostly forgotten. Call me crazy but I like being a paramedic. I’ve made a much much greater impact on others as a medic than I ever could as another grunt pulling hose and spreading doors.
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u/mmaalex 2d ago
Do you like EMS? A lot of FF's dont, hence the bitching. On a combined department you'll find 50%+ of calls are EMS.
Depending on how the department is structured, frequently the low guys get stuck doing the EMS calls.
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u/BlitzieKun Career, Tx 2d ago
We frequently make 1.1k to 1.2k calls per day with the average being 80% or higher as EMS.
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u/Mszsin 2d ago
What planet is the the fire only departments from? West coast FF run up to 80% medicals calls. I’ve never heard of a fire only Dpt, but I’ve only been a FF for 35yrs, doesn’t mean they don’t exist. But it’s pretty odd concept to me. My agency has only hired FF/P since the late 80’s. And all the agency’s around us are the same way.
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u/Ok_Buddy_9087 Edit to create your own flair 2d ago
There’s a fire department near me that doesn’t even go to MVAs unless it’s on the highway or unless EMS calls them. If EMS gets a code, fire shows up, somebody drives the ambulance to the hospital, gets out, gets back in their engine and drives away while the 2 medics take the patient inside.
You’re never gonna believe this, but they’ve had layoffs twice during my EMS and fire career.
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u/the_falconator Professional Firefighter 2d ago
Like anything else your milage varies. My department isn't fire only but our EMS is a separate division, I only had to do a 6 month detail to the EMS division once, out of the better part of a decade. Our starting pay isn't the best (but also not the worst), but our top end pay is one of the better around. Around me there are departments that you have to spend years on an ambulance before getting enough seniority to get to an engine or ladder, some pay better some pay worse. We also have departments that are Fire only with no ambulances, some pay competitively some pay on the lower end. One of the benefits to being at a department that has ambulances is that I can volunteer for overtime in the EMS division, the departments that are solely fire with 3rd service EMS can't do that.
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u/MisguidedMuchacho 2d ago
I feel like departments that do both should draw the line on EMERGENCY medical services. Patient transports and non-emergency calls should be routed to an ambulance service. That would likely help with some of the EMS burnout.
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u/1chuteurun 2d ago
Id love to see it, but I was pretty surprised to find out, when I first joined, private services are way overworked and understaffed as well. No department wants to accept liability for turning down calls.
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u/MisguidedMuchacho 2d ago
Not saying that a dept should turn down a call but that’s what dispatch is for. We are in an area where if you need more than a bandaid, you’re a 30-40 minute ride to the nearest hospital. The nursing home and assisted living used to get all their patients lined up at 7-8am and then call for transports which was putting multiple units out of the area all at the same time for extended periods. That can be managed. It’s never perfect... I’m just saying you have to try to prioritize when you have resource constraints. But it also takes people working together and that’s easier said than done too...
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u/1chuteurun 2d ago
Around where I work, you'll get paid more to do both, but the guys I know are generally happier not doing EMS transport unless life/death emergencies are involved. It's pretty clear that there has been, and will continue to be a drastic increase in low acuity calls, and no one is in a rush to do anything about it.
That being said, some all hazards departments have very robust and proactive preventative/ health education programs that cut down on these, making working there much more enjoyable, but that sort of thing is rare around here.
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u/TheVelluch 2d ago
EMS is 85% of the 911 calls. So if you run EMS you get more funding and more justification for pay increases. I've been on the job for 24 years and was a paramedic when i was hired so I've never minded it. I like being able to contribute to 100% of our calls than being trained to i only help on the 15% of calls.
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u/NoSpread5529 1d ago
To answer your last question from my perspective, no. Find a busy (fires, not runs) fire only department with no ambulances and never look back. You’ll thank me later, unless you actually like EMS. We’re lucky to be in the north east where these departments still exist and haven’t yet succumbed to becoming glorified ambulance services with fire apparatus.
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u/Obviouslythrowaway_- 1d ago
That’s the plans. I’ve heard so many firefighters burnt out by the ambulance and knowing me, I would be too. If I don’t get into the one, no transport department, I’ll look at other career paths.
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u/GuyInNorthCarolina 1d ago
How many people and what equipment in your station? How many fires do you respond to daily?
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u/946stockton 2d ago
This dude asked the same question over a year ago and hasn’t done any actual work to find out answer. Something about this post Covid Generation P.
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u/USSWahoo 2d ago
Academies here on the west coast won’t even allow you to attend unless you’re an actively licensed EMT-B (at minimum). Fire/EMS has been a thing for decades over here and it’s not going away, it’s been a reality of the occupation so it doesn’t bother me.
EMS calls have their ups and downs, but if you can weather the mundane and perform during the critical calls, I find them fulfilling.
The biggest difference is the transport models. Some departments don’t transport at all (providing on-scene care before sending the pt off in a non-department ambulance), while some provide paramedic services that either go with the ambulance to the hospital (and then leave once the patient is handed off), or they do the entire transport themselves in a department-operated ambulance.
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u/Obviouslythrowaway_- 2d ago
East coast has a few non transport departments I’ve finished my EMT class and I honestly do not think I would ever be fit for transport work. But it seems to be where all the money is in the fire service, also very unavoidable.
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u/USSWahoo 1d ago
I’d give it a shot, work a bit as an EMT on a box. Maybe you’ll have a call that changes your mind. If you’re still not into it, you’re going to have a tough time finding a department, but you’ll be dead-set in what you want.
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u/2000subaru 2d ago
OP, where are you located? That may help us a bit and drive the conversation.
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u/946stockton 2d ago
West Massachusetts per previous posts.
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u/2000subaru 2d ago
Missed it, thanks. Ultimately, every department is going to be different and contracts and benefits can change drastically over a lifetime. There are miserable people who work in EMS based fire systems and miserable people in Fire only systems. Find a good fit and don’t be the miserable cuck that brings everyone down with his shitty attitude. Nobody likes those folks.
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u/Obviouslythrowaway_- 2d ago
This, this is the response I was looking for. Thank you. I figured it would be different depending on the department. It seems like everyone says that transport departments pay more even if it’s a bigger city without transport.
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u/Axeoh 2d ago
All fire fire department, never heard of her
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u/Obviouslythrowaway_- 2d ago
No transport* Mostly just fire calls and no ambulance. It’s all east coast
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u/Responsible_Step881 2d ago
I would rather have my loved ones in a jurisdiction that is Fire/EMS transport. Problem with private EMS is that they are trying to make a profit, so they understaff, overwork and underpay their people. Also dispatchers get annoyed when the FD is asking for ETA's for the ambulance all the time.
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u/FinchFire1209 1d ago
After 8 years working in a busy fire and EMS east coast city, I understand why firefighters with time on don’t like EMS. I never disliked EMS and have always felt like my skills were on point, but about 5 years in I started burning out working for busy Engine companies and ambulances. 80% of what we’d do was running medical calls. Over half of those were not even emergencies.
I’d say the benefits are the experience keeps your EMS skills sharp and the better pay. When you’ve had enough there are typically other paths within the department you can take through promotion or different divisions if you’re willing to put in the work.
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u/Putrid-Operation2694 Career FF/EMT, Engineer/ USART 1d ago
I've helped far more people in the EMS side.
I've done some cool shit and actual grabs on the Fire/Rescue side.
Both are important
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u/BasicGunNut TX Career 21h ago
The biggest benefit to EMS departments is the additional staffing. Much easier to reach an ISO 1 status with EMS. Everything else sucks. I worked at a fire/EMS department for 5+ years and the morale go so bad that fights were breaking out between people on different shifts. MOT on the box regularly because of a lack of Paramedics, no decent fire training, everything was EMS focused, insane turnover rate, just general misery. I left with half my shift and we all went to fire only departments, and everyone is happy and thriving. My wife told me after my first month at my new department that I looked like a different person, going in early happy to go to work, happy when I got home, not sleeping all day, losing weight. It was an incredibly healthy change for me. It was an initial pay cut but now I make 20% more than I did before.
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u/ZMoney18388 2d ago
Honestly don’t know why everyone complains about EMS so much.
Fire departments that just do Fire think they are better then anyone else
Most departments that are Fire/EMS departments, you’ll have a good chunk of guys there that hate it and don’t want to go to EMS calls ever and constantly try to do as little EMS as possible.
My opinion? If you want to be a Firefighter, you should Strive to go to every call where you can make a difference regardless of what needs to be done. If you have a problem taking an EMS call while in a Fire uniform, perhaps a career in the fire service isn’t for you.
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u/Previous-Leg-2012 TX FF/Paramedic 2d ago
Benefit to EMS departments? You get to help people, far more often than you ever will as single role fire.