r/Firefighting • u/Puzzleheaded_Owl5699 • 2d ago
General Discussion Is this normal/acceptable?
A little context to start. It might be a long read. I am a “probie” currently going through an online EMT program. Me and the 4 other probies spend M-F 8-5 at the training center/station doing our course work and helping as needed/asked. Our training chief (who is currently in charge of us) told us our only job is to continue like that, and clean the building we are in. We understand this to also mean the training bay and tower.
One firefighter came in one Saturday off shift to get a workout in. This guy is known to be pretty hard on probies and sometimes a bit too much. He noticed the trash cans were full in the training bay. Trash cans that we emptied on Friday and got filled from a large police training that took place Friday night (it’s a shared FD/PD facility). On Monday at 0815, he storms into our classroom and yells at us about the trash being full and he tells us he “took care of it.” Knowing the guy, we go out and investigate to find he dumped the trash cans all over the ground and stuffed some in our lockers in the training bay. He was again off shift this morning and was there for an OT recruiting event, so he came in just before he left.
Cleaning has always been an end of day task for us for the past 6 months, including during our time in the academy.
Is this behavior normal? Is this seen as a normal way to address such a small issue that we weren’t even aware of? Most people in our department (~130 people) don’t act this way.
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u/Downtown-Quit-3266 2d ago
Seems to me like that fella’s a big poopie head who’s looking to throw around his weight to feel like a big man
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u/Jumpy_Secretary_1517 2d ago
Holyyyyy Christ that is wildly unacceptable. Dude needs a reality check, what a fucking dickhead. Bring it up to someone because that’s also fucking gross and wayyyyy not sanitary to have trash stuffed into your lockers.
Seriously, bring it up to your training chief if that is currently your direct supervisor. Dude needs to be put in his place.
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u/Reebatnaw 1d ago
When you talk to your training chief be sure to drop the words bullying and hazing. Maybe even say hostile work environment (if it truly is). Supervisors and HR hate to hear those words. The asshole will at least get a nice closed door pep talk for being a dick
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u/paramoody 2d ago
130 people seems like too big a department to get away with this kind of thing. Stuffing trash in your locker is hazing. It’s not the old days anymore, people get fired for stuff like this
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u/BomberoRich 2d ago
I’d bring it up to your training chief. Not in a tattle-tale type of way, but just make him aware of the situation. Ask for advice. His reaction will tell you what type of department you are joining
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u/Embarrassed_Gold5964 2d ago
Is it normal? Yes in shitty departments. Is it ok? No not at all. But dudes who haven’t ranked sometimes get off to being a dick head to probies. Being a probie means being on your toes 24/7 for a year. Dudes will crush all the paper towels in the bathroom just to yell at you for not putting new ones in. It’s how you respond that makes u who you are. Don’t let people get under your skin and just grind and one day that can’t say shit to you. And u will have the chance to be around probies and you will know how to teach them the right way. Stay strong brother
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u/Firm_Frosting_6247 2d ago
Normal? Sounds like this guy is unstable at best. An absolute Grade-A douchbag.
He represents the very worst of the fire service. He can fuck right off.
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u/light_sweet_crude career FF/PM 2d ago
We're pretty hard on each other in my department but this... would be considered psycho behavior.
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u/beiter51 2d ago
Dude probably spent a few too many years in the corps and was never properly deprogrammed before coming into the fire service.
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u/SJ9172 2d ago
My experience is guys (like this) that want to run around like drill instructors never served a day.
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u/beiter51 2d ago
That’s a really good point. Either that or they spent 4 years in a service support unit and are trying to portray themselves as something that they aren’t.
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u/Horizon_Time 2d ago
Yeah that ain't normal at all, what a dickwad asshole!
I would definitely bring this up to a supervisor, this is technically hazing so you could report him if you wanted
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u/Bmac_13 2d ago
Some people are just assholes bc it makes them feel better about themselves. As a probie i got yelled at once by someone not on shift that came by due to a couple items being in the trash can. Im supposed to empty it every time someone puts garbage in it ? Anyway if the dept is like that as a whole find a different one, your not going to learn in a place that doesent allow you to breathe a little bit.
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u/Friendofhoffa21 Union Dirtbag 2d ago
I’m guessing that means you’re not employed by this department, and therefore not being paid? Oh hell. Even if you are being paid. Next time you see him, kindly walk up to him smiling, and tell him to eat a grocery sized bag of dicks. Brown paper size, not plastic.
Also if you’re not employed there, take the training and go somewhere else when finished. Any chief that thinks that is ok, isn’t a chief you want to work for.
This fake ass paramilitary hierarchy of dudes based on time on the job is antiquated at best. This is where I would walk up to the dude, in front of all of you, explain why the trash cans are full, and why he’s an asshole. Then. When he inevitably goes into the kitchen to tell all the boys how big of dirtbags you all are for not emptying trash cans, and brag about what he did, I’ll have you all help me load every piece of trash into the bed of his undoubtably lifted diesel truck that he has to work overtime for to even crack the $1300/mo note on.
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u/greenmanbad 2d ago
Where was your training officer during this?
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u/Puzzleheaded_Owl5699 20h ago
He was not around right at that moment. We aren’t under constant supervision because all we should be doing is coursework online.
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u/Biglava1 2d ago
Not acceptable, you should address this person in the app bay with another member. Preferably the senior guy.
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u/Locostomp 1d ago
Turn in everything in your lockers for replacement. It is all damaged. If the admin asks, tell them why. Get it documented if they refuse to have everything professionally cleaned or replaced. It is a health and safety issue.
That guy is just a bully. No one calls him out on his bullshit. Guys like him are a fucking cancer.
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u/ReticentSubDude 1d ago
Take pictures first or it didn’t happen. Also is there security video in that area?
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u/Je_me_rends Staircase Enthusiast 2d ago
This isn't the Marines. That is far from professional.
Repeat problem that never gets handled? Okay, I can't understand a crash out of these proportions, though this is still too far. But just going ape because you the bin was full? Therapy required.
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u/ReticentSubDude 1d ago
This is everything that is wrong with the fire service. If this is allowed to go on at that department, go to another one. Would you trust your life with this guy or the others that let it happen? He needs some anger management and or to be removed from his position. This is totally unacceptable.
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u/Mediocre_Daikon6935 2d ago edited 2d ago
Is your EMT class associated with a college? Then it violates federal anti-hazing laws. I doubt very much the college associate with the class would be happy to have to put 5 counts of hazing on their public records.
https://www.clerycenter.org/scha-what-you-need-to-know
And I have trouble thinking it doesn’t fall under this.
https://www.eeoc.gov/harassment
Take a look, and then decide if it is time to hold a class meeting.
Then go together and use the chief’s open door policy. Make it clear he’ll lose 5 EMT who will be filing workplace harassment lawsuits and complaints with the Dept of Labor (and whatever your state agency is), or he loses one firefighter that clearly has not read the company policies on harassment.
Have a highlighted copy of the company policies.
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u/calriderzeke 2d ago
As right as you are about anti harassment and hazing laws, “threatening” the leader of your organization is never a good look.
Bring the issue to the attention of the CoC and allow them to address it… otherwise you’ll just develop a reputation as “that guy” who doesn’t understand how a chain of command is supposed to work.
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u/Mediocre_Daikon6935 2d ago
That is exactly how the chain of command works.
Their supervisor was there, and didn’t address it on the spot.
That means it goes to the top.
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u/mojored007 2d ago
That person is impatient..are his hands broken?.. it happens just don’t repeat it
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u/Jrock27150 1d ago
Sounds like one of those guys that probably gets grief from the guys in his firehouse so he saw a chance to do it to people who can't really mess with him back. Unprofessional
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u/llcdrewtaylor 1d ago
This is bs. Your first job is to LEARN. Station chores are important for everyone, but that behavior is completely unacceptable. The station is our home away from home. Him throwing trash everywhere disrespects everyone in the department. What if a guest comes in from the public. Is that the image you want of your firehouse?
If there is ANY good leadership at your department that needs to be handled immediately.
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u/incompletetentperson 2d ago
i dont condone this behavior... but totally out of nowhere? meh. people are sometimes dicks to probies. is what it is man
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u/CarobLoud1851 2d ago
5 emt's. 1 asshole. Hmm. However, yall should have emptied the trash cans when ya saw they were full, PD or not.
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u/BomberoRich 2d ago
He said they are only there M-F 8-5 and the training was Friday night. So they most likely didn’t realize the trash was full when ole boy threw a hissy fit
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u/CarobLoud1851 2d ago
Sounded like they knew they were full. So, they are only going off the information of the asshole. ... Maybe they weren't as full as dick head claimed they were. Interesting.
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u/Few_Werewolf_8780 2d ago
There will always be a few like this. You are new let it go and move on. Google the book Hazing FD and you will what some new guys go through. It may help you understand how firehouse life is. Good luck!
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u/Dramatic-Account2602 2d ago
Normal? No. He is a whackjob. There are many No agency is immune