Border Patrol agents arrested firefighters fighting Washington wildfire after they asked the fire crew to line up to check their IDs.

[u/AngronOfTheTwelfth]

What do we all think of this? Seems pretty nuts to me. They are actively getting in the way of wildlands guys as they do their job out there. I dont think this should be allowed or encouraged. Firefighting is a lot more important than .... risking 20 guys dressed exactly like firefighters crossing the Canadian border?

[u/Paramedickhead]

I love my blue canaries. I would do anything for them on a personal level.

But when a LEO interacts with me on a professional level? Now things have changed. It’s not a buddy anymore, it’s someone who has the ability to jam me up.

If we’re having a conversation, that’s fine. But as soon as we move from a consensual conversation to an investigatory relationship, I’m not as jovial.

If I have done something wrong and I have caused an interaction to go from consensual to detainment, I’ll be as polite and respectful as can be. Things like a traffic stop. But It’s still all business. Short answers, no extra information, by the book.

But if I have done nothing and a cop thinks they’re going to just demand my ID, I’m walking away and laughing in their face. I’m not about to let someone in a power trip treat me like a little bitch.

[u/Impressive_Change593 → u/[deleted]]

I don't want to get off topic but also I am fine with border security being increased and even deportations. HOWEVER they way it is being done is not ok. they're going around with one identification thing and that's it. that's not supposed to be enough to identify them..normal police at least should show two factors (could be marked car and uniform, marked car and badge, uniform and badge).

I fully support the masks. just other identification like uniforms should exist. unmarked vehicles also make sense

[u/AngronOfTheTwelfth → u/Paramedickhead]

That's how the country is supposed to be. No probable cause? Get bent!

Being brown or scruffy ain't probable cause.

[u/TLunchFTW → u/Paramedickhead]

Well put

[u/shhhhh_lol → u/Paramedickhead]

The firefighters requested anonymity because they feared retaliation from federal agencies for talking to the media.

That's from the article linked in here...

[u/CriticalDog → u/Paramedickhead]

In California, if I recall correctly, part of what you are signing for when you do the paperwork for your ID or DL, is acknowledging that law enforcement can request to see your ID at any time, and that you will comply if you have it on you.

I could be wrong, haven't lived there in 20 years.

[u/Paramedickhead → u/CriticalDog]

California laws do not supersede federal laws. You can’t sign away your constitutional rights. This isn’t a 20th century german police state where the Ordnungspolizei can just randomly stop people for their papers.

It is a well known legal doctrine that a law enforcement officer must have articulable probable cause to initiate a detainment and demand identification. I don’t believe that firefighters performing fire suppression activities would meet the burden for probable cause in this situation.

That said, there is the old idiom “You might beat the rap, but you won’t beat the ride”, and I am fully aware and accepting of that. I’ve been arrested and jailed for standing for own principles before, and I’ll do it again too. The problem is that while I fully support police having qualified immunity, sometimes a shithead can maneuver themselves so that qualified immunity can protect them while they intentionally violating your rights.

There’s bad apples in every bunch. There’s guys out there that should never have passed fire academy, there’s guys out there that should never have passed medic school, and there’s guys out there that should never have passed the police academy. That doesn’t inherently mean that all LE are bad.

Except the ATF. That bunch is rotten to the very core.