r/Firefighting • u/space_cowboy78 • 1d ago
General Discussion Volunteer department wishes to merge with us.
Good day all, recently a volunteer department (at least their trustees) have approached our fire board about them merging into our fire district. We are just solving our own problems with full time staffing, better pay/benefits, equipment, etc.
This department in question is WILDLY unprofessional. When we show up to their fires they won’t go interior as they will literally hand you their hose line even though they’ve been on scene for 10-15 minutes. Not to mention they have a sexual predator and several other members who protect said predator.
I feel like all of this and other unknown things should be made known to the public and/or our fire board. However I’m not comfortable with doing so due to us not being unionized. Nor do the majority of our guys want to become unionized.
To me it seems like a recipe for disaster and I want to look out for the great guys we already have. Currently I’m the most senior full time firefighter and I feel like it’s my responsibility to do what’s right but we don’t have protection from a union. Any help on this matter would be greatly appreciated.
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u/seltzr ? אש 1d ago
- Bring your concerns to your line officer or chief and ask it to be passed along?
- Send an email anonymously or go to the press?
- Consider a collective group statement to the appropriate leadership?
Do you believe the board of trustees will take your desired course of action? Anyone can approach them with anything.
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u/space_cowboy78 1d ago
The fire board has their regular business meeting (open to the public) last Wednesday. To me it seems like they’re doing a favor for the trustees and not the benefit for the community or any members.
It just seems super sketchy to me. As for talking to my officer, we’ve had several conversations about this issue and the consensus on our shift and the others is that this will not end well.
I highly doubt our fire board will listen to us because the former fire chief referred to us as “a group of fucking monkey’s” multiple times.
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u/seltzr ? אש 1d ago
Go through a proxy that can speak at the meeting such as a neighbor or partner (different last name) without fear or retaliation.
If only there was a way to get collective protection…
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u/space_cowboy78 1d ago
Currently the majority of our full time members will vote no for a union. It’s doesn’t make sense especially when it usually makes things better.
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u/FordExploreHer1977 1d ago
Then they will get what they get. The union is the voice of the members against the voice of the administration. Without it, it’s just the administration’s voice being heard. This is a political issue, which Unions are well versed in. Your membership would likely benefit in many ways by unionizing. But that is essentially up to your co-workers. As it stands, it sounds like your administration has all the power to make any change they want. The voice of the workers isn’t needed, wanted, or heard, which tends to be just like how administrations like it.
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u/trapper2530 1d ago
I highly doubt our fire board will listen to us because the former fire chief referred to us as “a group of fucking monkey’s” multiple times.
Bring that up in the meeting. Your former chief doesn't respect you guys. Especially if that has been documented somewhere. If youre monkeys and passed all.these background checks what's that make guys with secual assault allegations. I stated elsewhere get your union involved feom a legal standpoint. Hiring is usually laid on in contracts. This could very easily break it.
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u/Mediocre_Daikon6935 1d ago
Departments merge all the time.
It could be good. Or bad.
It could be that their board realized they are doing a shit job, and wants to remove a bad service/ improve service.
But I’ve never seen a service, Volunteer or paid, where background checks were not made.
And. Frankly, at many vol. services, the bar for joining might be high. Full membership vote to accept them into probation. Full membership vote on to accept them as members. Frank discussion by all members of every speaking they’ve had in their lives. Their reputation on middle school, what their ex wife thinks of them. Etc etc.
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u/wi-ginger 1d ago
This other department is wildly unprofessional but yours doesn't do background checks for a full time professional department?
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u/space_cowboy78 1d ago
For our people it’s been done. It’s for this merging department that it probably won’t happen.
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u/SubarcticFarmer 1d ago
If you have all of these concerns but don't think you can bring them up to anyone or have anyone else do it for you then your district isn't all that professional either.
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u/TheVelluch 1d ago
Just a question but why doesn't the majority of your department want to unionize and have a collective voice protected by federal laws? Some of your concerns would be able to be handled by a union board much better not only with the merger but also your pay/benefits.
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u/space_cowboy78 1d ago
The majority of the new full time firefighters came from a neighboring department where they have a union and they never got what they wanted. Not to mention our captains are set in their ways and don’t want change too.
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u/TheVelluch 1d ago
Interesting. If they didn't get what they wanted with a union, i wonder how they think they will suddenly get what they want without a union. Sounds like they should have just ran for the union board.
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u/Tasty_Explanation_20 1d ago
Not everyone has swallowed the union kool-aid. I say good on them for not wanting to work hours for free every week to pay dues and line someone else’s pockets with their hard work. I will never work anywhere that forces me to join a union personally.
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u/TheVelluch 1d ago
I work in a big department and no one is forced to join. Its highly encouraged and 99% of us are in the union. I will tell you this, that "kool-aid" has sure given me a very satisfying lifestyle and way to provide for my family through pay, benefits and working conditions. If thats not what some are into, to each his own.
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u/_jimismash 1d ago
What's your local newspaper situation like? Reach out and talk to a journalist via email, but don't say anything until they say "yes, this is of the record and I will keep your name private."
Or even start your outreach anonymously.
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u/space_cowboy78 1d ago
Local media does carry a lot weight where we are. That’s my absolute last resort
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u/earthsunsky 1d ago
Background checks and rigid standards for certs and PT and EMS evals should weed out the hobbyists.
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u/Historical_Towel_478 1d ago
I was born in a small town where it was only the main paid department. My father was in that department as well as the sheriff's department. He and a colleague decided to start volunteer departments to help around our town of over 18,500. At that time it was a great asset and very beneficial to the town. We supplied mutual aid to the city and surrounding counties. My father took pride in his department, trained and made sure the right people were where they needed to be regardless of age ect. He gave people the opportunity to see what fire was about and train and send off to get certified. If that couldn't happen, he found a job for you in the department to make you be part of it
Travel to the past 10 years, it's not the same. It's all political, it's not what you know anymore. The departments are full of whoever they want in. Firefighters were unprofessional, did whatever they please and response times are so ridicules. The departments are lucky if they have 3 people in each when before there were more than 15 in every department. So, I can see why you feel the way you do. You can voice your concerns and all, they will listen, but they will still do what they please.
Even though putting these departments can be beneficial it hurts at the same time. Might slow response times etc. They get their own grants and all and have their own ratings. Which is good. Just dont give up. Voice your concerns at every possible moment.
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u/Terrible-Rough9059 1d ago
Hire a consultant firm to do a standard of coverage study. You can merge, but there is NO REQUIREMENT to absorb any personnel. Most Volly Jollys would never make the cut with a career agency. Many are in poor health which would cause your health insurance premiums to go up.
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u/Proper-Succotash9046 1d ago
So much going on … and so much depends on your state laws . 1. It’s not a merger , it’s a take over and as a paid dept you don’t have to accept them as members of your dept . Residents of that area will have to pay for fire protection ( we use a fire tax - volly dept with elected commissioners) 2. Unions are basically good for health/ welfare and retirement benefits
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u/Ok_Buddy_9087 Edit to create your own flair 1d ago
There are a lot of benefits to a union than health/welfare and retirement. Don’t be silly.
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u/space_cowboy78 1d ago
We’re in Ohio if that helps. It’s been referred to as a merger because the smaller department is coming to us and not our district going to them.
And yes, it’s a LOT going on
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u/Proper-Succotash9046 1d ago
They can sugar coat it as they will , unless you’re a combination dept , you don’t have to accept them
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u/westernwanker 1d ago
Seems like a bad idea, and more importantly every fire department needs a union. If someone thinks otherwise then they are uneducated and have probably succumbed to negative propaganda against unions.
Top paid departments, with the best benefits, have unions. It gives the members a platform to fight for better working conditions.
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u/WittyClerk 1d ago edited 1d ago
It is your duty to protect your people, as well as the public. That includes voicing to the board that all are welcome to apply for legitimate, open union positions, and go through the same background checks, and training as everyone else. **and nothing else, such as a merge.