r/FrancaisCanadien • u/WeWillFreezeHell Franco-albertain • 22d ago
Nouvelles STEPHAN [député provincial en Alberta] : Alberta does not need French
https://www.westernstandard.news/opinion/stephan-alberta-does-not-need-french/6678718
u/WeWillFreezeHell Franco-albertain 22d ago
And protecting our freedom and prosperity compels us to confront other aspects of our constitution that cost more than benefit: Alberta does not need French.
[...]
And while it is always good to seek learning, including in Alberta, additional languages other than English, including French, those should be individual choices and preferences without government mandates.
La constitution ne prévoit aucunement que l'apprentissage du français est obligatoire pour une personne individuelle.
But under the rule of Pierre Elliott Trudeau, the Constitution was amended to mandate French as equal to English for the federal government and its institutions for ALL of Canada. This mandate constitutionally entrenched his Official Languages Act, prescribing how these mandates apply.
D'abord, il écrit comme si Trudeau a unilatéralement changé la constitution comme un dictateur. Rappelons que l'Alberta y a consenti.
Ensuite, pour un élu qui se dit vouloir l'auto gouvernance pour les albertains, c'est grave qu'il ne pense pas la même chose pour le Canada comme collectivité, qui a choisi le bilinguisme officiel.
Yet, outside of Quebec, fewer than 5% of Canadians speak only French and not English. The mandate was a bribe to Quebec — but Quebec refused to sign the Constitution, so why is it here?
Facile ignorer les francophones hors-Québec lorsque tu néglige qu'ils sont, pour la vaste majorité, bilingues. Ils ne sont pas pour autant moins francophones. Le bilinguisme constitutionnel est pour les gens bilingues, aussi. On est pas nécessairement moins francophone.
And in Alberta, fewer than 1% of individuals living in Alberta speak French and not English. In fact, French is not close to the most common first language other than English — Tagalog, Punjabi, Spanish, Hindi, and Mandarin are all more common.
Vrai. C'est le fruit des politiques qui visaient réduire la proportion de francophones dans l'Ouest et assimiler ces francophones. De plus, les politiques qui visaient défaire cette tendance et remédier à l'injustice n'ont pas étés mise en œuvre.
Thus, in Alberta, this constitutional French mandate is artificial and, like many government edicts, divorced from reality.
Son égoïsme est transparent ici. Parce que le français ou le bilinguisme ne fait pas partie de sa réalité personnelle ou même locale, ce n'est pas réel.
But the article did not identify the biggest cause of this shortage, if it exists, and that is this: to be a judge in the Supreme Court of Canada, the Federal Court of Appeal, the Federal Court, and the Tax Court of Canada, he or she is required to be bilingual.
Outside of Quebec, this French bilingual mandate is dumb. If we want more outstanding candidates, remove the bilingual mandate and the pool of qualified applicants will grow exponentially.
Autre que la Cour suprême, ceci est faux. Les cours doivent être institutionnellement bilingues, pas les juges individuels. Et le bilinguisme obligatoire pour les juges de la Cour suprême c'est tout nouveau.
Every year the federal government takes Albertans’ tax dollars and spends billions to artificially sustain this mandate through government programs, including minority-language education, second-language instruction, and subsidies for official language minority communities, bilingualism bonuses.
All the costs for administering such programs, as well as costs for related policies, such as language training, evaluations, and the maintenance of bilingual services even where they are never, or almost never, needed.
Pourtant, plus haut, il dit que c'est "toujours bon" d'apprendre plus. Si ces programmes scolaires n'étaient pas désirables, il n'y aurait pas des fils d'attente pour les écoles d'immersion et une pénurie d'enseignants francophones. Clairement, les parents veulent cette éducation bilingue pour leurs enfants. C'est leur choix, v'la pour ta liberté.
Je me demande s'il dirait la même chose au sujet des écoles catholiques en Alberta.
Lorsqu'il parle du financement de la communauté francophone minoritaire, encore, il oublie que ces argents sont aussi dépensées en Alberta, pour le bénéfice des albertains.
J'estime que sa vraie perspective c'est que le gouvernement ne devrait pas dépenser du tout sur des programmes sociaux comme l'éducation, le communautaire ou les arts. Pourquoi déguiser cela comme anti-francophone, je ne sais pas.
Government mandated bilingualism has become less about communication and more about control. Alberta does not need French.
Encore, quel contrôle?
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u/Witty-Goal6586 22d ago edited 22d ago
D'abord, il écrit comme si Trudeau a unilatéralement changé la constitution comme un dictateur. Rappelons que l'Alberta y a consenti.
C'est un peu des deux, Trudeau a fait violer la constitution par son juge en chef de la cour suprême (Bora Laskin) pour pouvoir la rapatrier tout seul comme un dictateur pis il a ainsi pu forcé les provinces (sauf le Québec) à négocier mêmes si elles étaient contre.
Edit: Pour ceux qui me croient pas vous lirez: La Bataille de Londres de Frederick Bastien
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u/WpgMBNews 22d ago
Recently, I spoke of kings in our constitution – Albertans do not need to be ruled by a figurehead king or a de facto king in a foreign land, whether from a castle in England or Ottawa.
Uhm....sure, yeah, rural Alberta has always had redneck francophobes but since when did Conservatives become anti-monarchist, too?
That scares me: willingness to upturn the core institutions and even remove the head of state in pursuit of some American-style unilingual nationalist Republic
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u/KidFl4sh Québec 22d ago
Heillle googoogaga, y devait être trop moron pour aller en French immersion quand yetait kid pis la y chier tout le monde.
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u/Sun_Hammer 22d ago edited 22d ago
Bonjour,
Pardon, Je vais "post" en anglais parce que mon français n'est pas très bon. J'apprends mais j'ai besoin plus de temps.
As a Canadian who grew up in rural Ontario but have lived a good part of my adult life abroad - I always thought we went about second languages wrong in Canada. My oldest son is trilingual (really 2.5, he's likely forgotten most of his German by now but he was a B level) and has been studying French as his 4th. I'm bilingual myself having learned a 2nd language as an adult and have now started leaning french as my 3rd. I say all this to demonstrate I'm not an "English only" kinda person. I just feel we're going about it all wrong and maybe, although I can't stand the overall message and the tone, there is some truth to the article.
The biggest difference between Canada and other countries I've been is choice (and often real life exposure). Personally, I feel that "choice" is very important. Learning a 2nd language is a real investment of effort and time. Forcing any kids, especially young ones to learn a language they aren't exposed to in real life is a waste of time and resources for all but a few. I mean our track record in Canada kinda plays this out. I remember as a kid conjugating verbs and trying to wrap my head around tu and vous.... It just didn't make sense and I hated it. I couldn't figure out why I even had to learn it. I never actually met a real french person until I was 18 and exposure to media/movies is almost non-existent in the English world. Not to mention at 6 years old you're not exactly forward thinking. Anything past the next play break is a stretch.
I also wonder if we're not starting too early. Yes, learning a language is inherently easier the younger you are - especially if you're exposed to it. However, most Canadian kids outside of Quebec and a few other regions are not. It's just a fact of life. Singing songs for 30-40 minutes a few days a week doesn't really count.
In Germany for example kids don't start learning English until at least grade 3. Where I was living it was grade 6. French and Russian were also alternative 2nd languages.
Anyway, just a bit of food for thought. I doubt anything is actually going to change, the political forces are way too strong but I wanted to share my opinions and thoughts on the matter in a constructive way.
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u/radiorules 22d ago
That notion of choice you're talking about doesn't really exist for non-Anglophones. We have to learn it, especially nowadays, especially in Canada.
I've always felt like there was an element of privilege being translated through the "forcing people to learn a language" perspective we often hear when talking about French. Of course you feel like you're being forced, your first language is the lingua franca of the planet. You feel like you're being forced because you have the privilege of having a choice in the first place.
English is not a choice for the overwhelming majority of Francophones. It is imposed by being everywhere, which is also the self-fulfilling-prophecy "argument" used to justify not investing in anything that would increase the presence of French in English-speaking communities. English is dominant, so exposure to French is more rare. Since there's no exposure, investing in increasing that exposure is waste. Exposure to French gets more and more rare because it is made to be unnecessary. Again, of course you feel like you're being "forced."
If it feels like French is being forced on you, remember that it goes way beyond that for non-Anglophones.
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u/Sun_Hammer 22d ago edited 22d ago
You're 100 percent correct, and it goes way beyond francophone and anglophones. My wife(eng 2nd language) has a french Canadian friend, a Japanese friend, and a Koreen friend. They speak English together. English is the lingua franca all around the world. That's a privilege certainly for anglophones, but it also comes with a down side. We often don't have a practical need to learn other languages. It's that need for something that is often the driver to make you learn something. If there is no need, you at least have to have a desire. Being "forced" to learn something you don't practically need coupled with no real life exposure snuffs out that desire pretty quickly as a child.
That's also why I feel you shouldn't compare English Canada to French Canada to get the best results. Is it fair? No but it's the reality. I think English Canada needs to take a different approach.
I belong even letting those who choose to learn french will yield better results than forcing everyone to take it.
Am I right? I can't say. It seems to work in Europe but they are also exposed to a lot more languages in real life and of course the majority of Europeans are not English.
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u/radiorules 22d ago
The comparison between French and English Canada is useful not to make a point a out fairness, but to bring in the perspective of people for whom English is so imposed that learning the language isn't even thought in terms of practicality or need or drive or choice. You have to. Like it's "forced" on you without laws, you don't get a say. It goes beyond force or drive or even ability. You have to.
Btw, I'm not trying to like attack you or whatever. What I'm saying is that I would have loved to have had the agency to see learning English as a choice/force thing.
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u/TozTetsu 22d ago
And yet every time you try to speak to a francophone in Quebec they suddenly can't speak a word of English.
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u/Beautyindesolation 22d ago
The argument is always either « no one can speak english inside of quebec » or « quebecers always switch to english when I try to practice my french ». C’est lequel des deux alors?
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u/radiorules 22d ago
Celui qui convient le mieux à l'argument du moment. C'est le French Canadian de Schrödinger : il refuse de s'adresser à la fois en anglais et en français aux Anglos. Il est à la fois snob et arriéré. Il est à la fois canadien et Français de France. Il est à la fois wOkE et fasciste.
Mais il y a une constante : que tu ouvres la boîte ou non, le French Canadian est le bouc émissaire par lequel le sentiment d'aliénation de l'Ouest a choisi de s'exprimer.
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u/Sun_Hammer 21d ago
I'm not sure I've had that to be honest. Although I'm sure it happens. It happens everywhere (every language).
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u/Steamlover01 20d ago
Parfait. On va faire un deal: Zéro services en français en Alberta et Zéro service en anglais au Québec. Deal ?
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u/QuebecPilotDreams15 Québec 22d ago
«Yet, outside of Quebec, fewer than 5% of Canadians speak only French and not English. The mandate was a bribe to Quebec — but Quebec refused to sign the Constitution, so why is it here?»
Ah ben oui, c’est surtout pas parce que la constitution a été signée dans le dos du Québec par les autres provinces, nooooon