This is from 2003, not Brotherhood. But Brotherhood has an even more bombastic version of this scene, and the comment still isn’t wrong about Brotherhood being the best. 😁
Like, yes, it was fantastic and I was following it during its run, but it gradually became VERY obvious that the author is burned out and just wants to be done with it asap. The ending wasn't game of thrones level bad, but it did feel rushed and left the "author gave up" kind of aftertaste.
I guess that's better than endlessly dragging the story just for the money and fame, so I'm not gonna bash Ishida Sui for how he handled Tokyo Ghoul:Re. But personally, I wouldn't watch the remake even if I'm fond of the 95% of the manga.
That’s fine. Anime watchers are notoriously hard to please when it comes to endings.
Anime’s either have “trash” endings: Naruto, MHA, Demon Slayer, Attack on Titan, Death Note, etc.
Or they never end, so they get to avoid the criticism: Hunter X Hunter, One Piece, Berserk, etc.
I stopped caring about the opinions of anime watchers long ago. I loved Tokyo Ghoul (manga), and I think season 1 showed the anime had SO much potential when executed properly.
The comment is def wrong.. OG is much better. Brotherhood summarized everything and left out parts.. way less drama and I even like the animation style better. Normies just like Brotherhood because they never watched OG and are lemmings who like it better because thats what the internet told them.
I don’t know? That’s what I recommend to everyone. Also I liked the OG ending, I wasn’t aware it was original when I watched it. For the best manga adaptation you’d need a mix of both.
Nah, much of what made 03 good is shared by Brohood and the manga. Left on its own, 03 doesn’t have a lot going for it, and even suffers. Also, Brotherhood did not “summarize everything”, and left out the train heist and the coal mines. It’s an adaptation, and I’ll take that over the different story entirely any day.
Now, spare me your generalizations. I watched 03 first, then read the manga as it serialized, then watched Brotherhood years later. It exposes everything that’s wrong with 03, which was once my favorite anime. Brotherhood isn’t just higher on my list of favorites, or effectively deletes 03 from the running for me.
Now, maybe you can try articulating what exactly 03 does better and what is “summarized” by Brotherhood. I’m interested in your opinion, not your shallow finger-pointing.
Brotherhood handles the thematic elements poorly, compare the initial transmutation scenes for example. 03 starts off cheery and bright with upbeat music and lets the viewer sit in the ignorance of hope for a beat before the transmutation starts failing and the mood and music switches to a darker tone. Brotherhood just spoils the result before it's even started with a red sky and ravens, making everything ominous and dark. It's a failure in theming and pacing.
Homunculi being failed human transmuations is an infinitely more interesting concept than having them pulled out of the ass of some random bad guy, and it makes them more human and more interesting. Speaking of, Father is an awful two-dimensional villain and it's done so much better in 03 where you don't really have a true villain, and the big bad is a corrupt society and a whole cadre of shitty selfish people instead.
Labratory 5 and the handling of Barry the Chopper and the Slicer Brothers is another example of 03 just doing a better job at storytelling.
The overwhelming preference for Brotherhood stems from two main factors, it is a more faithful adaptation of the manga, and it's more of a traditional shounen battle story. I would however make the argument that unforunately the mangaka isn't as good a writer as the people who did the 03 show. The more limited source material the 03 show had to adapt actually worked in their favour by letting them focus the story on a more limited scope, and as someone who prefers seinen to shounen, it makes for a much better show overall.
Ironically, the bittersweet ending of 03 actually does a better job portraying the thematic concept of brotherhood than the show with that name.
We already know the transmutation ends in tragedy. Whether it’s framed as happy-go-lucky or tragic initially when we already know how it ends is irrelevant. This is easily the worst example you could have come up with for how one “handles thematic elements” over the other. All you’re saying is they’re slightly different in one scene. Whoopdey doo.
Homunculi being based on failed human transmutations is a concept that is poorly fulfilled by 03’s writing. A cool idea left to waste. It amounts to little beyond finding more fuel to throw excessive levels of angst at the brothers, which many fans of 03 misunderstand to be “mature writing.” Father being two-dimensional is the point, and this fact is even highlighted, due to the homunculi being his sins/vices pulled out of his ass and given form. This also pairs well with the Mangahood homunculi embodying their namesake sins more than their 03 counterparts do. 03 has a villain in Dante, and since it makes no sense for her to have as much control over Amestrian military forces as Father would, the 03 show lazily uses Basque Gran as a scapegoat to say all the military dickery surrounding the homunculi was his doing…somehow. Convenient to throw it all on the dead guy.
You can’t just list random things and say they’re better. You’re supposed to be articulating your opinion, remember? What made you latch on to Barry, Slicer and Lab 5 more in one than the other?
Incorrect. Appreciation for Mangahood comes from the fact that it tells a better story with more fleshed out characters who have complete arcs in a master class in proper pacing. 2003 takes its time, slows things down, and has characters often discuss philosophical concepts in quiet moments, while ultimately having these topics lead nowhere. It asks questions it lacks the capability of answering. The end result is a practice in wasting time. Mangahood is able to accomplish more with its story and characters while still including more action and moving at a faster pace. It exposes 2003’s dragged-on nature as being pointless, merely making the illusion of focusing more on characters and story. So your assessment of this writing as surpassing that of Arakawa comes off as a laughable conclusion jumped to by one who did not think these things through, and would rather accept the illusion than conduct proper media analysis.
The ending of 03 was a rush-job capstoned by the embarrassing “Envy reveal” in which Ed is handed the idiot ball to have an edgy cliffhanger of his apparent death. This is after all of Dante’s pseudo-philosophical ad-libbing and apparently being able to use a random baby in place of a Philosopher’s Stone. Even 03’s own original concepts don’t remain consistent with themselves, it’s incredible.
The themes of 03 are way more mature and complex indeed and so are the characters. Just an example of many but having Mustang be the one who killed Winry's parents is such a bold and great move that adds a great layer to both Mustang AND Winry. Seeing how a good man is capable of something so atrocious is so much better than making responsable a "well I was a bad guy back then and really crazy" cop out like we have in Brotherhood.
They’re not mature and complex, they’re edgy and obtuse. There’s a difference. Mustang killing Winry’s parents, Wrath having Ed’s limbs, Sloth being based on Trisha, and the constant stream of attempts to one-up the Hughes and Nina deaths rather than let them stand as monoliths of tragedies that shouldn’t be allowed to happen again; these all follow a trend of writing decisions that show promise on their faces, but ultimately fall flat because the writers didn’t know what to do with them other than introduce the brothers to ever-increasing levels of angst. It tricks teenagers into thinking they’re watching something deep and mature, but rewatches-especially after experiencing Mangahood—expose just how much of this seeming maturity and complexity is just uncoordinated writing at best and sheer nonsense at worst.
Also, are you pretending Mustang’s war crimes in Ishval are swept under the rug in Mangahood, and that he says he shouldn’t be judged for them because it was in the past? Because if you are, I must call into question whether you experienced Mangahood at all in the first place. If you did, you wouldn’t be saying something so blatantly against what is actually told to you.
but ultimately fall flat because the writers didn’t know what to do with them other than introduce the brothers to ever-increasing levels of angst. It tricks teenagers into thinking they’re watching something deep and mature
The thing is they do know what to do with them. They follow the themes of facing the consequences of your action but not letting those actions define you. It deals with grief and overcoming it, it deals with what it means to be human and the very real fear of death everyone, even old people can experience. Unlike in mangahood where, it turns out, you can just give up your alchemy door (something some people cannot even use in the first place) to revert all consequences of your mistakes and get Al's body back with no moral dilemma.
FMA03 commits to the themes shown early on while FMA Brotherhood is afraid of doing it and ultimately ends up backing down. Scar being responsable of Winry's parents death but only while being crazy; Scar, Barry and other villains giving up and turning good just for sheer fan demand; The brothers getting everything back with no consequences; removing any nuance from the homunculus and just having them be evil parts to be thrown away...
And I don't think you can speak of uncoordinated writing when FMA Brotherhood has things like main characters running into other main characters who were supposed to be hiding all the time, and a kid in a important position who doesn't grow old and no one noticed after 20+ years even though there are multiple photos of the kid taken.
are you pretending Mustang’s war crimes in Ishval are swept under the rug in Mangahood.
Yes. That is precisely what happens. No matter how much we are told he committed war crimes, we don't care because they nameless and faceless. We are told but that does not hold any weight. We cannot comprehend the extent of how much it harmed people unlike in FMA03 where we are forced to face those crimes first hand and experience that suffering through Winry and Scar.
Wow, did you get ChatGPT to orchestrate your thoughts on moral story-framing for you? Your pretend-analysis is self-contradictory in like, three different ways.
The fact that you can look at Scar’s complete character arc and the themes at play and chalk it up to him turning good cuz fans demanded it is laughable. It makes me realize you never actually watched Brotherhood or read the manga to begin with. Only someone skimming a wiki synopsis to find a made-up reason to be mad about people telling you it’s better than 2003 would arrive at such a malformed conclusion as you have. Seriously, you think Scar is absolved because he was crazy? The brothers face no consequences for their transgressions? This screams, “I’m not actually familiar with the material in the least.”
What’s so uncoordinated about those parts of the story in Mangahood? Did ChatGPT tell you about them for the first time and you left it at that?
Jesus Christ, you keep proving me right. To say Roy’s actions are to carry no consequences—that he gets away with them and proclaims it as such—is in open defiance of what is actually said in Mangahood on the matter, specifically by him and by Hawkeye. Honestly, just stop embarrassing yourself, and either go experience this media for yourself, or stop pretending you know enough to talk about it.
The fact that you can look at Scar’s complete character arc and the themes at play and chalk it up to him turning good cuz fans demanded it is laughable. It makes me realize you never actually watched Brotherhood or read the manga to begin with. Only someone skimming a wiki synopsis to find a made-up reason to be mad about people telling you it’s better than 2003 would arrive at such a malformed conclusion as you have. The brothers face no consequences for their transgressions? This screams, “I’m not actually familiar with the material in the least.”
Man I watched 2003 and then Brotherhood wanting more of what made FMA great and even if Brotherhood is not bad it misses on a lot of what made 2003 great. Yes, people facing the consequences of their actions is one of those points.
The audience is expected to forgive Scar's actions because he was crazy when he killed Winry's parents yes, and the brothers consequences are erased when Ed sacrifices his alchemy door, yes. Idk what is debatable there. You can like that they don't face the consequences and have a happy ending, there's nothing wrong with it, but acting as if they do is laughable and trying to signal someone out for calling the show for it makes it clear that you don't want to have a conversation about the show and just want to defend your show because it's what the internet has told you to do.
What’s so uncoordinated about those parts of the story in Mangahood? Did ChatGPT tell you about them for the first time and you left it at that?
That those points make no sense and are effectivelly huge plot holes? Or you think those are proof or masterful writing?
Jesus Christ, you keep proving me right. To say Roy’s actions are to carry no consequences—that he gets away with them and proclaims it as such—is in open defiance of what is actually said in Mangahood on the matter, specifically by him and by Hawkeye.
What is said. Yes, that is the problem. If you cared enough to read what I'm saying in order to have an actual conversaiton I said the problem is exactly that. We are told again and again about Mustang's crimes but in 2003 we actually get to thoroughly experience them through Winry and Scar.
Scar is never forgiven for his actions, and he is never framed as “crazy” and thus absolvable for his actions. You are directly lying or making shit up about Mangahood to get across a point that doesn’t exist. Ergo, yes, you have not experienced this media, and have no idea what you are talking about.
Ed and Al paid a toll for their transgressions and seeing the truth. Ed’s leg, and Al’s body. Ed already paid a toll in his brother’s place, sacrificing an arm to bind Al’s soul to armor. Al later refunds this toll, and banishes his own soul to bring Ed’s arm back. Ed then sacrifices his ability to perform alchemy to bring Al back. Even Roy—who was forced to perform human transmutation unwillingly and thus is treated with leniency—is rendered blind for a transgression that is not even his own. No consequence my ass. You keep saying that, but the actual media you pretend to have watched/read proves you a liar.
We are literally shown his crimes in the Ishval elaboration that you missed, because you never read the manga or watched Brotherhood.
Accept when you’ve been called out and quit while you’re behind. Fakers and whiners, man. Insufferable.
Not at all, Brotherhood is very popular. Anime is super popular these days, normies can def watch it. Are you one of those normies who don't realize they're a normie? :o
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u/Ayumu_Dea_84 11d ago
Gotta love Full metal Alchemist: Brotherhood. In my opinion the best series ever drawn/written.