The problem to me here is his punch was just pay back for the slap. He could have prevented her from hitting him again just as easily without punching her in the face that hard. Sure, she deserved it, but it's not a cops job to dish out punishment like that.
This is the real answer. The cop was not under any duress or wasn't defending himself from an attacker nor fearing for his life in any way. There were like 4 cops carrying this girl. He was well protected and completely outnumbered her. She drunkingly open hand smacks him and he retaliates with a close fist right to the face... Uhhh. Yeah that's fucked up. He isn't drunk so he has no excuse as to his disproportional retaliation. I would say the same thing if the drunk person was a dude. A drunk dude wildly swinging should be detained, not propped up on shoulders so his hands are free to keep swinging. These cops are idiots for how they didn't detain the girl and when she goes for a swing, they retaliate like animals.
For instance, it doesn't usually come up at all in places like r/wholesomememes.
r/wholesomememes specifically states and rigorously enforces the rule of not having anything that's not "wholesome", so obviously bigotry, no matter its color is not going to be encountered there and if it is you'll only see it in the form of [deleted] comments or locked posts.
With that in mind, it's not fair to bring that subreddit as proof, similar to other subs (like for example lefty subs or subs specifically targeting women), there are mods who are pretty strict about this.
I used to be of the same opinion as you, but then again you see some folk who get too "happy" and "energetic" at the prospect of revengeful behavior, like a woman hits and she's hit back twice as hard, and then go ahead and dress this kind of behavior as "equality" or "justice".
The more I see it, the more I'm convinced that there are some people who are way into this kind of "thing", and if you look into these people's history and commenting patterns, most often than not you'll find very similar areas of interest.
Reddit wants men and women to be treated equally when it comes to the consequences of hitting someone. It only seems like fetishizing hitting women to people who think women deserve less punishment because of their fragility.
You just said he wasnt defending himself from an attacker but she hit him. It would be too hard to tell the other officers to drop her in the middle of the stairs so they could get control of her arms. By hitting her she is no longer a threat. Its like using a taser but its attached to your arm.
She hit him? She was so drunk she could barely touch him. Get real dude, there is no 'defending yourself' from someone tapping you with all the force of a light breeze. This is indefensible, stop trying to make excuses or stretching for shit like 'well she could have blinded him if she touched him in exactly the right spot!'
Why take the risk? The lady is at fault for getting that drunk in public. She is a danger to herself and thouse around her and if she needs to be subdued in order to remove her from the area then so be it. The cop shouldnt have to put up with being poked in the eye or slapped. The police arent baby sitters and if you get that drunk in public you should be expect to be removed against your will. If you fight back then you need to be subdued as necessary.
There was no room to handcuff her. Also its better to remove the person from the crowd then arrest them. She fought the arrest and because the option to handcuff wasn't available a quick blow can stun them until a time that you can handcuff them. This isnt kindergarten and you dont know what a drunk person might do.
If they had enough room to carry her out like a prom queen, they had enough room to handcuff her. And handcuffing her doesnt mean arresting her. Any of these options are better than a completely disproportionate response like the guy did.
They had to raise her up because there was no room. have you ever been in a stadium before? Its hard enough to get down those stairs with 2 people let alone 4 cops and a flailing drunk girl
In this case she's getting hit back with serious legal charges, so the punch in the face was just "i'm going to punch you in the face because I feel like it"
Jesus christ I personally don't understand why we expect the utmost professionalism for a job that pays 70k a year and doesn't require a college degree for entry. You get what you pay for. I don't have to deal with getting hit at work, at all, and I make far more than that.
The job is now subject to increased scrutiny with the advent of cell phone video and you still are risking your life by going on duty.
As an officer in the military, an occupation where we give 18 year old M2s and the wheel to a M1 Abrams tank, I don't give a shit about what you have to say. Sure, cops aren't paid alot, but that doesn't mean they can't be held to a different standard. It is a profession of service, just like the military. You are held to a higher standard regardless of pay. It is a profession that commands respect (and rightfully so), so when I see people with that standing act idiotic and abuse that power, I get upset. They are betraying the trust that society has given that badge. If a soldier goes ham on a suspected VBIED without going through the appropriate steps of the RoE, then they should be thrown in jail. This cop is in the same boat. He didn't act within the standard that his badge requires. He should get fired and charged, just like a trigger happy 18 year old in Afghanistan. Has nothing to do with education, salary levels, or any of that shit. These professions have extensive training and very clear protocols. Adhere to those and you'll serve the public, but deviate from those protocols and you end up on the front page of reddit. Hopefully this gets traction. This cop doesn't deserve that badge.
It is a profession that commands respect (and rightfully so), so when I see people with that standing act idiotic and abuse that power, I get upset.
Not disagreeing with you but I think cops get a lot less respect these days than before and it's largely due to a few bad apples rather than the bunch. I do think the advent of cell phone video has made the profession a GREAT deal harder than it used to be. Not that when things go wrong people shouldn't be punished but more how subjective that punishment is. How many times was someone hit even more maliciously than in this video and because it wasn't captured that cop gets to walk away scot-free?
Also I would argue that you clearly have a great deal of respect for the responsibility for being a soldier and a police officer but not everyone who are in either of those jobs likely shares that respect (likely to your frustration). Not everyone knew their life purpose at 18 when enlisting and not everyone who finishes police academy feels passionate about serving the public.
But that's exactly what he was doing, by definition. The fact that she was drunk and/or outnumbered doesn't make her less of an attacker. Drunk people can still be dangerous (even without use of a vehicle). The situation was anything but benign. She could have easily injured his eyes, for example. Hell, the blows themselves didn't even have to be directly dangerous. She could have landed one that did nothing other than cause him to lose his balance. Falling backwards on cement steps is no joke.
That being said, I do fault these cops for not restraining her hands via cuffs/ties. Preventing these kinds of scenarios is exactly why they're trained to do it in the first place. Had they done what they were supposed to do, the situation never would have escalated.
Not saying what the cop did was right but I think you have to understand his situation. Dealing with people like this is extremely frustrating and having to get 4 cops to carry her out meant that this was probably going on for a long time before this. The cops were also probably getting taunted by other drunk fans in the crowd the entire time. I'm not saying what he did was right and j still think he should be punished, but I think you're an idiot if you don't think a majority of people would have reacted this way.
I've been in combat, so I understand what keeping a level head under immense stress means. This cop is an undisciplined child. Detaining a drunk girl ranks pretty low on my stress-o-meter.
I understand that getting brassed up requires keeping a level head but the nature of the threats police and the military are subjected to are very different things.
If it’s truly no stress restraining a drunk chick (ideally without hurting her, aka not what this copper did) in a stadium then you should consider joining up!
I was a PL. I trained and operated within a platoon (squad and team) while in combat. I also served at BN and BDE level staff positions after my combat deployments.
Nah, it would be a massive pay cut to what I'm already doing and I've already served. Now it's time that I serve my own family and be a fly on the wall. I think everyone should serve their community in some sort of capacity for a brief stint (military, police, firefighters, local daycare, school teachers, garbagemen, postman, etc). If we all did, then we would all have respect for those positions and it would be a rite of passage for us and strengthen our communities at large. Consider my rite of passage already fulfilled.
The message that cops can hit non cops is the cause of all the cop hate in this country, which is the cause of the fear cops have when going into a situation, which leads to violence on both sides, but mostly violence from the cops. Dirty assholes.
cops can hit non cops is the cause of all the cop hate in this country
Isn't their job specifically to detain non-cops 99.99% of the time?
Poorly phrased sentiment- would it be okay for a cop to hit a cop then?
Ultimately you're responsible for drinking, so you're responsible for what you do when you're drunk. When you set the precedent that people can get away with shit by being intoxicated you undermine the justification for DoI laws.
She assaulted a police officer while being detained, she gets none of my sympathy.
...that people can get away with shit by being intoxicated...
Literally no. Not at all what I'm saying. Ever heard of due process? Pressing charges? Criminal record? Yea, those things...remember those? The justice system, exists literally so that people cannot get away with shit by being intoxicated.
She assaulted a police officer while being detained, and charges should be pressed. What should not have happened was whatever that dickhead piece of shit cop was thinking when he laid his whole bodyweight into her face through his fist.
There are four of them, if they can't even detain a single tiny drunk white girl without resorting to punching her in the face so hard she gets knocked out and almost get her head dropped 6 feet onto concrete, maybe they shouldn't be cops...
My instinct would have caused me to reach for her flailing arm. You know, to protect myself from her arm, which she was swinging wildly. Her face wasn't the part of her body that was attempting to slap me, I wouldn't have reached my arm out to deck her in her face. I would have reached my arm out to grab her arm, the arm that was hitting my head.
You were just backhanded, are facing away from the attacker, and see her face before anything else as you turn around.
What are the chances you are going to catch that arm before she backhands you again or pokes your eye out?
Better yet, what are the chances you actually paid attention to the video?
He would have had to drop her to turn around to get to her swinging arm with his free arm, or waited for her to swing a THIRD time and hope to catch her arm if it passed in front of him.
Seriously, did you even pay attention to the video? Or are you just here for the band wagon?
She was attacking someone from behind and full on backhanded him. You need to watch the video again.
You don't try to apprehend someone is seats in a crowd like that. It is just stupid to think that is an option. The cops would be surrounded by unruly drunks with no one watching their backs.
Why should they have to take all the risk if they are not the unruly drunk randomly backhanding people?
It's not that cops shouldn't be allowed to hit someone when they need to, it's more that they should have the training and discretion to know how much force is needed for a given situation.
So you're okay with cops being allowed to assault whoever they want, with as much force as they want, just because you don't believe you'll have to deal with it personally?
This is where we disagree. In my opinion, cops should be held to some kind of standard. Especially when this particular cop could have done several things that would have been less harmful to the woman, less harmful to his fellow cops, and easier for him. On top of that, if we allow cops to be brutes and force their will on people with the slightest provocation, then all we do is 1) attract assholes to the police force, and 2) make people scared of cops, which is the opposite of what should happen. Cops should be level headed, not fucking explosively violent and waiting for a spark
Humans with a higher moral and ethical calling and a lot of power in their hands. They aren't allowed to dole out punishment as they see fit just because they have a badge
It means we apply the law equally. Yes, cops get extra privileges when it comes to necessary force, but that doesn't mean they get extra privileges when it comes to a revenge punch. Self defense is one thing, necessary force is another thing, this was in unnecessary and certainly not self defense. Given the circumstances, he probably ends up getting a pass, but you get a couple people taking offence to that hit and all of the sudden you have a riot on your hands.
You are contradicting yourself. In one sentence you say it's up to the officer, in the other you say it's up to the law, then you say it's based on injury to the suspect, then you say a judge wouldn't rule against an on duty cop. You clearly have no clue what you're talking about.
Oh come on are you defending her for being drunk? Yes he shouldnt have hit her but a drunk person knew their state they are going to be in when they decided to consume alcohol.
Absolutely not. The cop smacked the shit out of her. He didn't full first punch her you idiot. And she deserved every bit of pain and reality that it smacked in to her slutty drunk bimbo mind.
Only stupid slutty bimbos think they can get away with that shit. If a dude slapped him and was smacked back everybody here would be reacted entirely differently.
Since when has "being drunk" ever been an acceptable excuse to behave like she did? If a man were to drunkenly assault a female cop and then she retaliated, would you say the same thing? Don't bother answering, I already know that you and almost everyone else in this thread would say that the man deserves to be punished.
Imagine they were both civilians. How do you think this would play out? Do you suppose he'd be charged with excessive force? Granted, the situation isn't exactly the same (which is a typical response to any hypothetical on Reddit) and she should have known better than to raise her hand to a cop. No one here is saying otherwise. But if they were both civilians, he'd definitely be the one in bracelets, guaranteed. Why? Because the force he used was way more than was needed to diffuse the situation...which is the whole point of self defense, not to be the judge jury and executioner. It's a slippery slope to establish a standard that cops are never to be questioned on their actions and allow them to use whatever force any degree of hot head cop deems necessary. Anyone who thinks that slap was any sort of a threat is either wayyy too big a pussy to be a cop, or they're lying to themselves to justify a hot headed reaction. Should he have defended himself? Of course. Should she be charged? Absofuckinglutely. Should he have cold cocked her like Hank punched Walt when he found out Walt was Heisenberg? I say no.
3.6k
u/[deleted] Nov 05 '17 edited Jul 20 '20
[deleted]