r/Hardcore • u/feddozzo • 8d ago
Just wanted to share this
From pulmonarykid on Instagram
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u/ScaredToUseMyMainAcc 8d ago
They’re all gonna grow up to be that one dude in the pit with a backpack
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u/weneverwill 7d ago
I’m happy to have donated 5 new backpacks to this. The fundraiser show at the skatepark was a blast
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u/Additional-Stress-17 6d ago
It was awesome coming out of the parking garage with my group all with kids backpacks on just to run into a bunch of other people with kids backpacks on, especially the big trucker type dudes with little Minnie Mouse glittery ones 😂
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u/Casualty0flove 8d ago
Hardcore rules for reasons like this. Shout out Haywire and everyone involved for making that possible. 🤝
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u/Jackielegs43 7d ago
You know a sorry is uplifting when even the r/hardcore comments are all positive
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u/nomdreas 8d ago
Something something iron cross band bad.
Yeah, fuck people who think that.
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u/YourphobiaMyfetish 7d ago
Yall would be amazed by how much the Klan fundraises for peewee football teams and elderly care.
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u/askaboutmynewsletter 7d ago
its almost like doing charity work is perfect cover for being shitheads
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u/jitterbugjackie 8d ago
I am curious though, do you know why they chose that symbol specifically? I always found it odd such an uplifting band chose a symbol associated with you know what.
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u/nomdreas 8d ago edited 8d ago
The iron cross isn’t exclusively associated with “you know what” it has a much deeper history dating back to Prussia. In fact the reich only used one specific iron cross in their reign of terror and that cross also featured a swastika in it.
Many bands in punk and hardcore have used the iron cross as a symbol of resistance or rebellion, same reason things like upside down peace signs, or crosses/upside down crosses are used by some bands as well.
Yes, a bit of it is shock value but that’s always been in this subculture, there are just so many people who don’t seem to understand that.
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u/jitterbugjackie 8d ago
Thank you for the genuine answer as opposed to just coming at my lack of knowledge, I didn’t know that history and I do appreciate it, thank you.
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u/northernsuede 8d ago
Cause its not a nazi symbol and is classic hardcore imagery stemming back to the greats like AF and Warzone.
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u/Funny-Mission-2937 8d ago
to be concise, if it was a nazi symbol, it would illegal in Germany. and they would know
in the context of American alternative subcultures, it does come to us through ww2, but we are American. it came into use as a war trophy, a symbol of antifascist victory. occasionally we do accidentally stumble into being the good guys
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u/inahumansuit 7d ago
How can it simultaneously be not a Nazi symbol and also a war trophy from the Nazis?
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u/nomdreas 7d ago
That person is a bit misinformed in saying it was a war trophy from the Nazis.
The Nazi iron cross has a swastika in the center. Of someone possesses one of those then their point stands. It also was worn by very few as it was used as a medal. So the amount of them taken back to the US is extremely minimal.
The iron cross that’s more commonly seen as a war trophy are from WW1 as every German soldier in WW1 wore an iron cross as a part of their uniform. But it’s important to note that was not under the Nazi government.
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u/inahumansuit 7d ago
Alright now help me connect WWI war trophies to hardcore. Why did people start using these symbols if not as an edgy reference to the German military (from either world war). Because it really feels like “No, this is a buddhist swastika, see how it’s not tilted.”
(Not trying to argue or provoke, genuinely curious. Also I know Haywire aren’t nazis lmao)
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u/nomdreas 7d ago
Well I think hardcore bands use the iron cross in representation of what it stood for when it was created and represented for over a century. Not for what it represented in 2 different wars behind two different governments.
And the iron cross was originally worn by an army that was fighting a man who was seeking world domination. (The Prussians against Napoleon) it is a symbol of resistance.
Additionally the Buddhists and Hindus DO still use the swastika. Are you saying they aren’t allowed to?
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u/inahumansuit 7d ago edited 7d ago
I just find it a stretch to believe that American punks in the 80s were all secretly 1800s European history nerds that intended no association with the most recent war in which it was heavily used (by the nazis)
And no, obviously Buddhists and Hindus are allowed to use their own religious symbols 🙄 But if a band started using a technically Buddhist swastika as a logo, they might face some justified scrutiny.
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u/nomdreas 7d ago
Genuinely asking, have you lived in NYC?
It’s a city of transplants that oozes history and culture. Italian, Jewish, German, Russian, Ukrainian, Chinese, Jamaican, you name it the culture is there. It’s not far fetched to believe that there were a few Germans in the LES who knew very well the history of their culture and educated others.
In the 4 years I lived there I was close friends with a Russian dude from Sheepshead bay who still outside of hangng out with his friends spoke 80% of the time in Russian despite being 3rd generation American.
Now I wasn’t there in the 80’s but I do know members of a few 80’s hardcore bands in New York have German heritage and I’m willing to believe they were taught their history if in no other way, by family.
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u/Rubidoos 7d ago
It was actually bikers way before punks that adopted the iron cross for shock value in America. Then Motorhead (among others) used it a bunch and it became a metal thing. My guess is it then evolved into a skinhead and punk thing.
Current day German army is still using the iron cross. But a bit stylized and no swastikas.
Hope this helps.
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u/TheWackyWaffle2 7d ago
Yeah lol that’s what I’m saying. Of course I don’t believe the members are even close to nazis but it is interesting that they picked that symbol. Idrc about it but it seems like it just helped their name get out there more than anything lol
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u/inahumansuit 7d ago
like I get that the iron cross has a history in hardcore and punk but why is everyone pretending like it popped into existence in the 1980s with no baggage or connotations
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u/Leepysworld 7d ago
It’s been used in punk and hardcore for decades and throughout German history for centuries.
Now I know one could argue the same about the swastika but as far as I know the iron cruise hasn’t really been almost exclusively associated with nazi’s as the swastika has.
In fact, the current armed forces of Germany still uses an iron cross as its emblem to this day (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundeswehr).
It definitely has been co-opted by questionable groups like biker clubs and racist skinheads but then on the flipside it’s also used by SHARP (Skinheads against racial prejudice), so its history is a bit more nuanced.
Ultimately I don’t immediately think “nazi” when I see someone rocking an iron cross, but I do when I see someone wearing a swastika, or if they’re rocking other questionable imagery as well, like Nordic runes lol.
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u/HummusFairy 7d ago
It’s more “Warzone and Agnostic Front rock” and less “maybe Hitler had some good ideas”
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u/Jan_Rainbowheart 8d ago
It's not hard to think the band is great and they stand on what they believe and that's great and also reclaiming a symbol that is mostly associated with Nazism is stupid. Sure it's been used forever, but we're still having this conversation today which is proof most people still see it as a Nazi symbol and "well actually 🤓" doesn't mean very much.
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u/nomdreas 8d ago
Respectfully, the reason we have the conversation is because a lot of people don’t have an actual understanding of world history and the public education system in US provide a very biased curriculum when it comes to teaching it.
You’re making it seem like having an educated conversation around history is an issue for some reason which is a wild take to have.
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u/Jan_Rainbowheart 8d ago
All I'm saying is if you use imagery most people associate with Nazis, people are gonna think you're a Nazi band. Most people won't make it far enough to have a educated conversation about history. Personally i don't know why you'd want to do that or why people get so mad to defend it.
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u/nomdreas 8d ago
And I’m saying most people associate it with Nazis because they don’t actually have an understanding of history. It’s not the responsibility of anyone to cater to the ignorance of others.
Additionally the iron cross (without a swastika in the center) was never used by the Nazi party. The only iteration they used featured a swastika.
So maybe instead of shielding people from the truth you can be a part of educating them.
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u/Jan_Rainbowheart 8d ago
I don't wear it, and i don't think they have to conform to my opinion. I've defended their use of it before. I just don't know why anyone would want that association.
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u/nomdreas 8d ago
The same reason any group of people actively reclaim something.
Through rebellion and to make a statement.
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u/Jan_Rainbowheart 8d ago
Reclamation works better with language than imagery, i think. When someone inevitably tries to reclaim the swastika or the Confederate flag, we'll be back here having the same discussion again. But i doubt people will be as charitable.
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u/notrickross7 7d ago
I can comfortably sport an iron cross on my bike. I cannot comfortably say the N word.
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u/nomdreas 7d ago edited 7d ago
The confederate flag wasn’t around for a century before their succession from the Union. There isn’t a history behind it other than the one associated with the confederacy.
And realistically the likelihood of a radicalist Hindu or a Buddhist hardcore band is extremely unlikely. Additionally the way the swastika is angled in religious context is different than how the Nazis portrayed it.
The iron cross was initially created by the Prussians during the Napoleon years. (Early 1800’s) Napoleon was an imperialist, and the iron cross was a symbol worn by those fighting oppression. It had over a century of political historical attachment to it before the third reich.
Originally the Nazis could not use the iron cross because it was a symbol of the government they came to overthrow. It’s why they adopted the swastika.
Neither of the other examples you gave have the same political history.
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u/Jan_Rainbowheart 7d ago
They should put all that on the back of a shirt, ha
My whole point is kind of that the history doesn't have a lot of relevance to the perception. I still don't think it's a hill worth fighting or dying on.
I do want to reiterate the backpack thing is really really great and more bands need to do shit for communities that actually matters.
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u/nomdreas 7d ago edited 7d ago
Yeah, but isn’t the whole point of hardcore to unite against the average perceptions of right and wrong in the world? To enlighten people and make them think differently?
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u/Jan_Rainbowheart 7d ago edited 7d ago
Sure, i personally think hardcore should be about being a bastion for minorities & oppressed people, and generally be an antifascist anticapitslist movement. That's the reason i even decided to get involved with it. Is that really the same as justifying why it's ok to wear certain symbols? Who/what does that help?
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u/ItsNotADystopia 8d ago
How many more listeners do they need before r/hardcore starts to hate on them
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u/BlackOutSpazz 7d ago
That's a lot. One of the groups I work with here does back to school backpack drives every year and I can't imagine doing 700 of em lol That's dope.
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u/20somethingzilch 7d ago
I love what these guys are doing. The whole group, anyone associated with them, they really do whatever they can for their friends and their communities.
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u/Bugsmoke 6d ago
They’re headlining a fest in Leeds in the UK where you have to bring a toy to get in alongside your ticket for some kids’ Christmas drive thing too
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u/spookysam24 7d ago
Not even a huge fan of their music but I’m super glad to see haywire doing well and giving back to the community as a Boston guy. Even if I don’t listen to them much I’ll still support any band that does cool shit like this
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u/Spearajew 7d ago
This is awesome. Not to be that guy, but don't schools require like clear backpacks now because of school shooters or is that not mandatory?
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u/50Loud 7d ago
don’t they do this also so they can use the event/show as a tax write off so they can profit bc it counts as a benefit or something
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u/KaijuDreams 3d ago
So sick. I’m a bar manager now in NYC but still trying to integrate hardcore values. Can drive for Thanksgiving on 11/2 (dia de los muertos) and toy drive in Early December. Our bar is in the West Village, hit me up for address if yall wanna pull up. Alcohol and Non Alcoholic options always available 🙌🏽
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u/ThebearKoss 7d ago
Hell's Angels do million dollar fundraisers, baby diaper rides, and turkey drives at Thanksgiving and Christmas. They pour money into their communities. They also deal drugs, do drug runs and smuggling, they traffic humans, work with some of the worst crime syndicates in the world, and also kill people, including their own for money. Fuck, the catholic church is even worse, they fondle children, smuggle nazis out of Germany after world war 2, they have secret societies, kill people, have 1 of the biggest money making enterprises on earth, own their country, spread lies about some story told about a man that dies for people's sins that is basically just a combination of mythical stories from ancient mesopotamia and the story of Osiris from Egypt to protect their greed. Haywire didn't do anything except hold a fundraiser. Bands in especially in underground music like hardcore and punk have been doing it forever. It's nice to see people doing good for their fellow man, but they still are just a terrible band that promotes violence to idiots that eat it up. Sorry, Haywire sucks. Just not as much as the church or the Hell's Angels...
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u/CharlesGnarwin73 CMHC 6d ago
Kissless virgin ass comment
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u/ThebearKoss 6d ago
I don't understand. Yes, I'm Kiss-less. I am not a fan of Kiss. I've been married for over 25+ years. I'm just not an idiotic douchebag that promotes violence and ruins shows.
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u/Flabbergasted_____ 7d ago
So what the fuck is your point? Does Haywire sell drugs, kill people, or fondle children? What a wild fucking statement, Hoss.
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u/ThebearKoss 6d ago
They may or may not do any of that. People are freaking the fuck out that they are such amazing people for doing this. 1.Shitty people do incredible things, doesn't make them amazing or awesome. 2.Haywire did nothing but play a show where people donated these things. Hardcore and punk bands have been doing this forever. 3.Haywire are not reinventing the wheel, in fact they are fucking it up. They are a crappy version of every 90s band that mixed late 80s DC hardcore with elements of early 80s hardcore punk and Oi. Just doing a much worse job of it, all the while sending us back over 25 years in promoting violence and stupidity at shows. But it just continues the despicable behavior that idiots who enjoy this crap are ruining hardcore here on reddit and out in the wild. A meathead with tattoos and doc martins is still just a douchebag meathead. No different than the jocks and bullies that hardcore always railed against.
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u/Additional-Stress-17 6d ago edited 6d ago
I'm not trying to argue. I'm not a fan of FSU, I view them just as much of a gang as you described Hell's Angels having good and bad sides. I do think they do good for promoting the scenes they're in, but I also see what they do after the show. I just want to comment about what you said about punk history and violence at shows.
You say that "free with donation" shows are part of punk / hardcore history. I follow a lot of promoters from around the country, but I don't see as many of them as I do in Boston, between school toy and food drives all throughout the year. Also it's a small thing, but matinee shows are much more common in Boston than other areas. I feel like Haywire IS trying to bring hardcore back to its roots, and at least Austin is younger than I am. The other point I wanted to contest is violence at shows. Yes, they cover boot party and promote driving Nazis out of the scene, which is tied deep into the punk ethos. But in a time of a beatdown rejuvenation, there's not even room for a pit at a Haywire show because the whole room is a sing-along. The only other hardcore shows I've been to with no pit and all pile on / stage dive are Have Heart and Touche Amore, and I don't think of either of those bands as promoting violence at shows.
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u/ThebearKoss 6d ago
I've been going to shows since the late 80s and almost every show I have gone to has had some form of tie in to a charity or cause. Most are not by the venue or the promoter but given promotion by 1 or more of the bands on the bill with no affect on payment to bands playing. This can include toy drives, coats and clothing drives, food drives, support for non profit organizations, and human rights. Amnesty International used to be a part of larger shows, food not bombs, and local food, men, and women's homeless shelters usually for the smaller shows. Unfortunately you can throw every excuse or whatever you want but Haywire is a band that allows violence at shows and in fact embraces it, as you can see by all the meathead jerk offs who go to their shows and come back to post about here on reddit how awesome the pit was. Watching people kickbox each other and seeing innocent bystanders bloodied is your idea of sing along pile ons, then you might be blind to how far hardcore has fallen.
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u/Seangw1102 8d ago
Talking the talk AND walking the walk
Ya fuckin love to see it