UHC as bad as everyone is saying?

[u/reddevine]

I own my own SMALL company. I had Humana and the health insurance policy was deleted and no longer offered. My insurance agent hooked me up with a plan from UHC. For six people it’s a little over $6,000. A month. With the event this morning I am reading terrible reviews of UHC that is completely freaking me out. Are they really that bad? Should I look elsewhere and if so where? What company is less on the evil side? I’m not looking for anyone to quote me pricing, I’m looking for those in the industry which companies they would want based on their dealings.

Thanks for any insight!

I wasn’t thrilled with Humana either, ER visit for a tick bite cost me $3,000. and I was never in a hospital bed or seen by an actual doctor.

Edit: Well I just noticed that Anthem BCBS is not going to cover anesthesia if the surgery goes into overtime basically in my state. Everything I’m reading since yesterday is just appalling.

[u/absolutzer1]

Right here is your answer: https://www.valuepenguin.com/health-insurance-claim-denials-and-appeals

Short answer. All private health insurance companies are profit seeking at any cost. Same goes for pharma. Same goes for any for profit company beyond healthcare. Auto insurance, home insurance. Any industry you can think of.

If they can afford to make a buck while screwing you, they will.

I don't understand capitalist lapdogs that support and vote for this system then they complain about how hard their life is under the capitalist boot.

Keep licking it long enough and maybe you will wear it one day to step on someone's neck or back while they are down.

The mentality of "Americans thinking they are millionaires or billionaires in the waiting" rather than them being few paychecks from homelessness is laughable.

The "me, me, me" mentality and issues don't exist unless they affect me. No compassion, no empathy.

The mentality of kicking others when they are down, rather than lifting people up along the way to success.

[u/Altruistic-Text3481 → u/absolutzer1]

The American Tyranny of Healthcare.

Give me Healthcare!
Or give me Death!

[u/Osmo250 → u/Altruistic-Text3481]

give me Death

With America's healthcare, that can definitely be arranged

[u/absolutzer1 → u/Altruistic-Text3481]

That's only one of the many issues the country has. The social safety net and workers rights and benefits, almost non existent

[u/nyanlong → u/absolutzer1]

you need to travel more bro i’m serious

[u/reddevine → u/absolutzer1]

Thank you! I saw this posted somewhere on Reddit and it was what scared me. I’m sure Kaiser would be a Cadillac plan and I’ve not heard of some of those other companies before.

[u/danicakk → u/reddevine]

FYI Kaiser has low denial rates because they're almost effectively an HMO where all care is inside of the Kaiser system. Doesn't really seem to matter for you if it's not an option, just adding some context to that graphic.

[u/absolutzer1 → u/danicakk]

Yup, they manage all their care in their system/network.

[u/monsieurvampy → u/danicakk]

I don't think that's a significant issue if you live in an area with a lot of Kaiser facilities. They have to have markets where they have only a handful of facilities, in which such a plan may not be ideal.

[u/UniqueSaucer → u/reddevine]

Kaiser may drastically reduce the available provider pool. I’ll admit, I’ve never worked with Kaiser myself but I do see a fair amount of posts concerned about their options on Kaiser plans.

[u/Ihaveaboot → u/absolutzer1]

Many of the BCBS plans are not-for-profit, private companies.

Their premiums aren't any different than the for profit public payors.

[u/absolutzer1 → u/Ihaveaboot]

Non profit in the US doesn't mean much. Non profits should use any surpluses to lower premiums, instead they find loopholes to funnel that money onto their pockets.

It should be wholly publicly owned and funded.

Also health insurance companies here do not have a public healthcare & insurance system to compete with which will give them a run for their money. No competition on pricing.

[u/Fair_Atmosphere_5185 → u/absolutzer1]

I don't understand capitalist lapdogs that support and vote for this system then they complain about how hard their life is under the capitalist boot.

Necro, but here's my 2¢

I have an uncle in Europe who is losing the ability to work his hands to grip and grasp things.  He will effectively be unable to work soon.  He is 60.

He went to a doctor, they determined the cause. So good good so far.  They determined he need physical therapy.  Now, the working age for me has been moved back so he kind of needs this therapy to keep paying taxes into the system.  If he can't work, he'll lose his flat AND his health insurance (still tied to employment in this country).

Guess when he'll be able to see a physical therapist?

Keep guessing.

Think about it.

And a little more.

2029.  Thats right - the first appointment is in 4 fucking years from now.

And because the market for individuals seeking private physical therapy is so small - it's going to cost and arm and a fortune to venture into the private market.  

And I'll probably be sending a check from this terrible capitalist hellhole in the states to help pay for the physical therapy.  

Expensive care is expensive.  Care that has waits of years may well not exist

[u/absolutzer1 → u/Fair_Atmosphere_5185]

4 years of wait? Yea ok.

I have had to wait longer for care in the US than Europe where healthcare is free at point of access. Of course people pay 2-4% in income tax for healthcare but that's way cheaper than what health insurance costs in the US before out of pocket expenses.

Try to sell this to some brainwashed yankee

[u/Fair_Atmosphere_5185 → u/absolutzer1]

Yes, it's a 4 year wait in the public healthcare system for physical therapy work on your hands apparently.  I'm an EU citizen.  I've lived with universal healthcare.  And I'll take the US broken ass system any day over universal healthcare.

I have another aunt that had a stroke of her spinal cord.  The doctors had absolutely no clue what it was and she got shit treatment for years and years.  

We flew her to the US and paid out of pocket, cash, for a private appointment with a neurologist specializing in the spinal cord.  They finally had more information after doing an MRI - that was never ordered in said public healthcare system.  Since then she's regained more use of her limbs, but the damage was already done by years neglect.  If we hadn't flown her to the US, there is a good chance she'd no longer be with us.

The US's system is confusing and difficult to navigate.  It's learned skill in and of itself to know how and where to go to get the treatment you need.  But once you know how to get to the specialists you need - you'll get better care than in universal set ups. Universal healthcare works great for typical widespread ailments.  If you happen to have something that isn't typical - it's really not that great.

And the cost for me is wayyyyyy better in the US.  The amount of taxes I'd pay in Europe would be ludicrous.

[u/absolutzer1 → u/Fair_Atmosphere_5185]

You could have asked for an MRI or paid privately in Europe. It costs like 100 euros tops. Not thousands.

The US system is good if you have money. For most people it's not good. Not only expensive but private insurance has too many barriers in place for even people paying to use their benefits.

Yea, cost for you is better, until you get a terminal illness and can no longer work or afford insurance, then you will go to EU like a little bitch begging for healthcare.

Wait until insurance decides you are too sick and expensive to pay your bills or pay for your chronic health meds or treatment.

[u/Fair_Atmosphere_5185 → u/absolutzer1]

I do have money.  I left a shit hole in Europe to make that money and not get taxed at obscene rates.  And I'm an EU citizen - I don't have to beg.  If I go back, I just sign up for healthcare, pay into the pot, and that's all there is to it.  I don't really ever see myself doing that however.  The lack of wilderness and open natural spaces in Europe is incredibly depressing and I don't see why I'd ever leave the American mountain west.

Anyway, there are folks that have had negative outcomes in universal systems.  And that colors their opinions on said system.  People can have different experiences than you and come to different conclusions.

[u/absolutzer1 → u/Fair_Atmosphere_5185]

Enjoy driving everywhere. Most people can't afford their health insurance bills or meds. It's not about what you pay in taxes but what you get for it.

Enjoy 2 weeks vacation too. Paying out of pocket for education, daycare, parental leave, medical leave, no pensions, no high speed rail, the list goes on.

Also no democracy, gun crime, homelessness and poverty.

[u/Fair_Atmosphere_5185 → u/absolutzer1]

I love driving.  You couldn't pay me to get on public transit.  High speed rail?  Why would you EVER need that when you can just get in a car.  I'm flying to Europe in summer and I'm renting a a massive SUV for my family.

I have 6 weeks of vacation, 6 months of parental leave. Medical leave that I've never used.  Employment does exist that has these.

Pensions ROFL.  I have these things called a 401k, Roths, and active investments.  Why would I want a pension that would be subject to whims of the government, whether or not they decide to inflate the currency away?  Whether they even decide to pay the pension.

I live in the exurbs.  Literally no crime.  No homeless.  Literally everyone in my neighborhood owns firearms, including myself.  And I live in a state that has probably the most direct democracy out of most in the union.

And best of all - my tax rate is probably 1/3 of what it would be if I lived in Europe.  Look, Europe is great if you don't want to work hard and just want to live off the productivity of others.  I'd prefer to work hard and keep what's mine with me.  Again - if you want to rant about why the US sucks in your opinion - go right ahead.  But the standard of living in the US IS higher as long as you arent working class.  Some people may not be working class, and may prefer the US's setup.

[u/absolutzer1 → u/Fair_Atmosphere_5185]

The standard of living is not higher in the US, nor is the quality of life. Nor is social mobility. This has been proven by research ( if you cared to read). You are looking at the world from a narrow lens.

Your taxes are 1/3 but then you have to pay for everything else out of pocket (healthcare, daycare, tuition, sales tax on top of listed price, 401k, property taxes). Which makes the effective tax rate higher than Europe. In Europe people pay more upfront but get more in return and have more disposable income than most Americans at the end of the month. Not to mention everything is more expensive in the US, cost of living is higher. People need a car, need car insurance, spend more on gas since more driving is required even if gas is cheaper. Utilities are more expensive, rent more expensive, internet and phone, more expensive). The list goes on.

Not to mention all out of pocket medical expenses even for people with insurance. Medications cost 10-50x more than anywhere else. Surgeries cost 50x more. Diagnostic tests the same.

The math doesn't lie.

Yea, why count on a pension when your retirement savings can be gambled in wall street lol 😂

Unemployment security in the US is non existent.

Keep reading more ayn rand books 🤦‍♂️

Median income in the US is like 46k before taxes and all the stuff mentioned above. Most of the population lives paycheck to paycheck, more than 80% of people have debt.

Stop pedaling propaganda on here.

[u/Fair_Atmosphere_5185 → u/absolutzer1]

All of these matter more if you are lower class or on the lower half of the the middle class.

Once you reach upper end of middle class and above, the US is vastly better.  I'd guess 120-150k house hold income and above.  How much do you think a 10 acre plot of land with a 5000 square foot home goes for in Europe?  Can you even purchase that?  I care about access to wilderness and nature above everything else.  That quite literally doesn't even exist in Europe.  I go on 6-8 backpacking trips out into the wilderness where I don't see a single other person for days.  That's not even possible anywhere in Europe.  So yea, I don't particularly if medication costs slightly more.  I haven't taken any in years.

I'm on the upper end of upper middle income - so for me - the US is vastly better.  For me.  I don't really give a flying fuck about the rest of society.  Maybe Europe is better for a bunch of lazy slobs that need to coast off of others; don't care.  My reply to you is why some people may not care for universal healthcare.  Just as how some people may not want to live in a socialized society, where everything is taxed to death.  These are personal preferences.

I don't need society to the support me - I've done the hard work and provided for myself.  I'm here to make as much money as I possibly can, pay as little in taxes as I can.  And then when I retire at the age of 45 in a few years - I can spend half my time in Europe and half in the US hiking, fishing, hunting to my hearts desire.