UHC as bad as everyone is saying?

[u/reddevine]

I own my own SMALL company. I had Humana and the health insurance policy was deleted and no longer offered. My insurance agent hooked me up with a plan from UHC. For six people it’s a little over $6,000. A month. With the event this morning I am reading terrible reviews of UHC that is completely freaking me out. Are they really that bad? Should I look elsewhere and if so where? What company is less on the evil side? I’m not looking for anyone to quote me pricing, I’m looking for those in the industry which companies they would want based on their dealings.

Thanks for any insight!

I wasn’t thrilled with Humana either, ER visit for a tick bite cost me $3,000. and I was never in a hospital bed or seen by an actual doctor.

Edit: Well I just noticed that Anthem BCBS is not going to cover anesthesia if the surgery goes into overtime basically in my state. Everything I’m reading since yesterday is just appalling.

[u/Fair_Atmosphere_5185]

Yes, it's a 4 year wait in the public healthcare system for physical therapy work on your hands apparently.  I'm an EU citizen.  I've lived with universal healthcare.  And I'll take the US broken ass system any day over universal healthcare.

I have another aunt that had a stroke of her spinal cord.  The doctors had absolutely no clue what it was and she got shit treatment for years and years.  

We flew her to the US and paid out of pocket, cash, for a private appointment with a neurologist specializing in the spinal cord.  They finally had more information after doing an MRI - that was never ordered in said public healthcare system.  Since then she's regained more use of her limbs, but the damage was already done by years neglect.  If we hadn't flown her to the US, there is a good chance she'd no longer be with us.

The US's system is confusing and difficult to navigate.  It's learned skill in and of itself to know how and where to go to get the treatment you need.  But once you know how to get to the specialists you need - you'll get better care than in universal set ups. Universal healthcare works great for typical widespread ailments.  If you happen to have something that isn't typical - it's really not that great.

And the cost for me is wayyyyyy better in the US.  The amount of taxes I'd pay in Europe would be ludicrous.

[u/absolutzer1 → u/Fair_Atmosphere_5185]

You could have asked for an MRI or paid privately in Europe. It costs like 100 euros tops. Not thousands.

The US system is good if you have money. For most people it's not good. Not only expensive but private insurance has too many barriers in place for even people paying to use their benefits.

Yea, cost for you is better, until you get a terminal illness and can no longer work or afford insurance, then you will go to EU like a little bitch begging for healthcare.

Wait until insurance decides you are too sick and expensive to pay your bills or pay for your chronic health meds or treatment.

[u/Fair_Atmosphere_5185 → u/absolutzer1]

I do have money.  I left a shit hole in Europe to make that money and not get taxed at obscene rates.  And I'm an EU citizen - I don't have to beg.  If I go back, I just sign up for healthcare, pay into the pot, and that's all there is to it.  I don't really ever see myself doing that however.  The lack of wilderness and open natural spaces in Europe is incredibly depressing and I don't see why I'd ever leave the American mountain west.

Anyway, there are folks that have had negative outcomes in universal systems.  And that colors their opinions on said system.  People can have different experiences than you and come to different conclusions.

[u/absolutzer1 → u/Fair_Atmosphere_5185]

Enjoy driving everywhere. Most people can't afford their health insurance bills or meds. It's not about what you pay in taxes but what you get for it.

Enjoy 2 weeks vacation too. Paying out of pocket for education, daycare, parental leave, medical leave, no pensions, no high speed rail, the list goes on.

Also no democracy, gun crime, homelessness and poverty.

[u/Fair_Atmosphere_5185 → u/absolutzer1]

I love driving.  You couldn't pay me to get on public transit.  High speed rail?  Why would you EVER need that when you can just get in a car.  I'm flying to Europe in summer and I'm renting a a massive SUV for my family.

I have 6 weeks of vacation, 6 months of parental leave. Medical leave that I've never used.  Employment does exist that has these.

Pensions ROFL.  I have these things called a 401k, Roths, and active investments.  Why would I want a pension that would be subject to whims of the government, whether or not they decide to inflate the currency away?  Whether they even decide to pay the pension.

I live in the exurbs.  Literally no crime.  No homeless.  Literally everyone in my neighborhood owns firearms, including myself.  And I live in a state that has probably the most direct democracy out of most in the union.

And best of all - my tax rate is probably 1/3 of what it would be if I lived in Europe.  Look, Europe is great if you don't want to work hard and just want to live off the productivity of others.  I'd prefer to work hard and keep what's mine with me.  Again - if you want to rant about why the US sucks in your opinion - go right ahead.  But the standard of living in the US IS higher as long as you arent working class.  Some people may not be working class, and may prefer the US's setup.

[u/absolutzer1 → u/Fair_Atmosphere_5185]

The standard of living is not higher in the US, nor is the quality of life. Nor is social mobility. This has been proven by research ( if you cared to read). You are looking at the world from a narrow lens.

Your taxes are 1/3 but then you have to pay for everything else out of pocket (healthcare, daycare, tuition, sales tax on top of listed price, 401k, property taxes). Which makes the effective tax rate higher than Europe. In Europe people pay more upfront but get more in return and have more disposable income than most Americans at the end of the month. Not to mention everything is more expensive in the US, cost of living is higher. People need a car, need car insurance, spend more on gas since more driving is required even if gas is cheaper. Utilities are more expensive, rent more expensive, internet and phone, more expensive). The list goes on.

Not to mention all out of pocket medical expenses even for people with insurance. Medications cost 10-50x more than anywhere else. Surgeries cost 50x more. Diagnostic tests the same.

The math doesn't lie.

Yea, why count on a pension when your retirement savings can be gambled in wall street lol 😂

Unemployment security in the US is non existent.

Keep reading more ayn rand books 🤦‍♂️

Median income in the US is like 46k before taxes and all the stuff mentioned above. Most of the population lives paycheck to paycheck, more than 80% of people have debt.

Stop pedaling propaganda on here.

[u/Fair_Atmosphere_5185 → u/absolutzer1]

All of these matter more if you are lower class or on the lower half of the the middle class.

Once you reach upper end of middle class and above, the US is vastly better.  I'd guess 120-150k house hold income and above.  How much do you think a 10 acre plot of land with a 5000 square foot home goes for in Europe?  Can you even purchase that?  I care about access to wilderness and nature above everything else.  That quite literally doesn't even exist in Europe.  I go on 6-8 backpacking trips out into the wilderness where I don't see a single other person for days.  That's not even possible anywhere in Europe.  So yea, I don't particularly if medication costs slightly more.  I haven't taken any in years.

I'm on the upper end of upper middle income - so for me - the US is vastly better.  For me.  I don't really give a flying fuck about the rest of society.  Maybe Europe is better for a bunch of lazy slobs that need to coast off of others; don't care.  My reply to you is why some people may not care for universal healthcare.  Just as how some people may not want to live in a socialized society, where everything is taxed to death.  These are personal preferences.

I don't need society to the support me - I've done the hard work and provided for myself.  I'm here to make as much money as I possibly can, pay as little in taxes as I can.  And then when I retire at the age of 45 in a few years - I can spend half my time in Europe and half in the US hiking, fishing, hunting to my hearts desire.

[u/absolutzer1 → u/Fair_Atmosphere_5185]

120-150k is hardly upper middle class for a family in the US. Not even for a person alone. After tax that's under 100k. Especially in major COL areas.

Making 150k before tax doesn't mean much if rent alone is 50k a year and a bagel and coffee costs 25-30 dollars. Eggs cost 8-10 dollars a dozen.

The US is good for self centered, individualists that don't care about anything. A perfect place for people willing to exploit others to make a buck.

It's easy to say how Europe sucks so much but you still want to go there if you need something or benefit from it.

Why not renounce the EU country citizenship if you like it here so much and retire here?

There is plenty of land and nature to see in Europe. Not sure which EU country has less natural beauty than the US or the western part.

There are like 3 major parks to see here compared to hundreds in Europe

Also I assume you went to school in Europe and have no student debt and not affected by that issue.

Socialized entitlements, privatized profits.

It's nice you have left Europe.

[u/Fair_Atmosphere_5185 → u/absolutzer1]

150k is more than enough to live comfortably in the vast majority of the country.

I view myself as a citizen of the country of my birth.  And I'm absolutely am in the US to make a buck.  I can actually do that in the US, unlike in Europe.  And why would I care about the people in the US?  They aren't me and mine.  I have no ties to them.  And that's the beauty of why America works so well.  It's a ruthless, heartless place - but it achieved so much because of that 

I don't think I said in a single place that "Europe sucks". It's organized around different values and in a different societal setting, I'll value different things.  I care about my countrymen.  I'm going to be more inclined to support socialized programs to support them.  I can also look down on them for accepting said social aid.

I went to school in the US and paid for my schooling while attending.  I just worked a lot for the privilege.

I still vote in every election in my country, EU or otherwise so I haven't exactly left 😉

I'm not trying to convince you of anything.  You clearly believe that socialized setups are superior.  But not everyone in Europe agrees, and not everyone in the US is pining for universal healthcare and other socialized programs.

[u/absolutzer1 → u/Fair_Atmosphere_5185]

"150k is more than enough to live comfortably in most of the country" True.

However you can't make that kind of pay in rural areas or rural states unless it is a specific job or profession.

Most people have to live in expensive cities to make that kind of money and COL there is high to where that money doesn't go far enough.

In Europe a 2-3 bedroom apartment can be 400-600 euros a month. Over here you can't even rent a studio under 1200 in a good area.

Making US salary and living in a cheap COL EU country makes sense but to shit on Europe and say things are good here or better is nonsense. The reason this country is this way is because of people like this that don't care about their countrymen.

No place can be good if everyone just wants to use it but contribute nothing back.

If you stood by your word, you would just renounce the EU citizenship and embrace the life in this great 3rd world country

[u/Fair_Atmosphere_5185 → u/absolutzer1]

It's entirely possible to make a household income of 150 living semi-rurally.  That's a low-mid healthcare job and something in construction.

The US prioritizes building single family homes.  It has a relative lack of studio apartments.  If we compared SFH prices with that in Europe, the US would be vastly cheaper.

I don't want to live in a studio.  I don't want to live in apartment.  And my families home in Europe is the price a medium home here in Denver (on the upper end of property price spectrum).  And let me tell you, incomes are vastly lower in Europe 

[u/absolutzer1 → u/Fair_Atmosphere_5185]

150k for a family is doable. Not personal income though. Those are tech wages, doctor wages or lawyer wages.

150k in CO is just 105k after tax, excluding 401k, health insurance, student loans etc for most people. Add to that 8.8% sales tax. Not including tipping for those that eat out often.

100k is just over 70k before all that.

On paper it might look like a lot of money. In reality it isn't. Someone that has a car easily has 1k expenses a month just for the car especially if it's not paid off. Insurance, gas, payments, paytolls.

It also depends which country in EU you are comparing incomes to.

Compared to bulgaria, of course incomes are lower there, so is cost of living.

Compared to Ireland, Switzerland, Norway, Netherlands, disposable incomes are higher there.

How many people in the US can live comfortably working a retail job or waiting tables? How many people in Europe can live comfortably working a retail job or being a waiter?

Yea

[u/Fair_Atmosphere_5185 → u/absolutzer1]

How many people in the US can live comfortably working a retail job or waiting tables? How many people in Europe can live comfortably working a retail job or being a waiter?

No one should live comfortably on those jobs.  

I also don't know where you are pulling these numbers.  I don't pay 1000 a month on my cars.  Yes, plural.  Granted I do the oil changes and basic maintenance myself - but you can't expect to keep things cheap if you pay others to do easy work for you.

I don't know what to say.  Don't take loans out to go to school?  Boom - no student loans.  Eat well and exercise and don't use substances?  Boom - lower healthcare expenses.  Don't waste your money eating out at restaurants?  Boom - vastly lower food expenses and you never have to worry about tipping.  Cook everything at home - it's better anyway.

Most of these "expenses" are choices.

Do shit yourself and don't pay people to do it for you.