Lemire's Descender makes no sense

[u/MC_Smuv]

Full spoilers ahead for Descender. So if you haven't read Descender, probably best to stop here. I haven't read Ascenders, yet. So please no spoilers in that regard.

So Quon revolutionized robot design and he based everything on a robot that was derived from the harvesters. So from now on, apparently every robot gets built as a sentient robot. Even mere working bots like we see with Driller. Why anyone would have the idea to make a robot sentient, that has no other purpose but to drill, is beyond me. It seems to only serve the purpose of creating the idea of humans enslaving robots.

Now let's look at the harvesters. What do we see them do: they transport and they shoot. They're not presented as sentient or even intelligent beings. As Professor Osiris points out, their robot world is inhabited by different kinds of robots: all created by the Descenders and "each with its own function". So like... they created sentient robots for fulfilling a single purpose? Like slaves? I guess these Descenders are pretty strong hypocrites then lol.

Or.... the only sentient robots in that place are the Descenders themselves? That could make sense because they apparently have a design that's infinitely more complex than all the other robots and could not be reverse engineered by Professor Osiris. But that would make the harvesters not sentient.... so where is Tim-21's sentience coming from.

But.... are even the Descenders sentient? Nope. In issue 31 they state: "our judgement and our actions are based on simple equations." And in issue 32 they call his sentience a "programming flaw".

So what now? Are the harvesters flawed as well? Probably not. Apparently sentience wasn't drawn from that harvester copy. Does that mean Quon developped robot sentience all on his own? Or did Professor Osiris invent robot sentience? On accident (implied by "flaw")?

Last but not least.... the importance of Tim-21. So he has the codex of the harvester. But all robots do. Quon based all those new models on that harvester copy. That should even include Driller who is just as sentient as Tim. But what's even more stupid: why is that codex even so important.... That harvester that the UGC built is nothing but a damn weapon. Can you not just press the button on that weapon? Why even need that complex AI (that you should have in your data anyway, cos you used to build millions of robots with it)??

Some other thoughts:

The art is amazing. I appreciate the work that's gone into it. However, it feels like the team didn't go the whole 9 yards. You can see the structure of that watercolor paper in the panels. But then you got clean, white gutters and, worst of all, digital sound effects that also don't have that paper structure. It just makes it all feel not like a singular piece of art but like a photoshop collage.

The whole book kinda feels like a Disney movie, like Guardians of the Galaxy. It's like the mainstream version of Brandon Graham's Prophet. I kept thinking.... this story would be soooo good if Remender had written it. Especially Driller was a pain in the ass.

I have a problem with how the theme of the book is presented. The question "Is sentient robot life, life nontheless?" is never really asked. The book just answers that question right from the get go: "Robot life is life. Now let me present you with some good guys that feel this way and some bad guys that don't." It just isn't very thought provoking or evocative.

[u/Conscious-Win-4303]

Huh, I always felt the theme of Descender was more of a “Pinocchio” story, about Tim wanting to be a “real boy,” set in a story that commented on the best and worst of humanity’s reactions to a competing species (the robots) as an allegory for racism and xenophobia. I honestly didn’t pay as close attention to the backstory details, but then again I read it as it came out vs all at once, so any issues likely didn’t jump out at me. And I loved the art too; the artistic choice for the SFX worked for me, as I felt they represented the “digital life” expression of the robots. If I had one critique, it’s that the series went on too long and could have been told in a shorter number of issues. But Lemire is a GOAT, so he can write however he wants and I’ll read it!

[u/MC_Smuv → u/Conscious-Win-4303]

Where'd you get that from? There's not one instance where Tim says anything even close to any Pinocchio theme. He's pretty okay with being Andy's companion and his whole mission of looking for Andy is totally in synch with him wanting to be his companion again.

[u/Jfury412 → u/Conscious-Win-4303]

You're actually correct; he does express wanting to be a real boy like Andy very early on in the first volume.

[u/MC_Smuv]

One more thing I forgot to mention:

When Blugger joins Andy... the only reason Andy lets him join is that Blugger put a tracker on Tim!! It's never mentioned again. Later it's this whole thing where they use that dog-bot to track Andy. And it's some complicated procedure. But they can frickin talk to the dog-bot. Why couldn't it just tell them?? The book makes it seem like it's sort of a one-way connection which has to be turned around.... so Tim knows where dog-bot is but not the other way around?? But as that tracker is turned around we can see how Tim suddenly senses dog-bot..... so that couldn't be.

[u/Jfury412]

I started rereading Descender, and I forgot what issue I'm in( Deluxe edition), but it's when Tim first goes to the afterlife and talks to the robots there. He thinks he's having a dream. In that issue alone, it's very clear that all robots are equal to descenders. Harvesters, the regular robots, and worker robots, all of them are equal. And Tim absolutely does Express wanting to be a real boy like Andy whenever he first meets back up with Dr Quan. I think you need to go back and read the whole thing you completely misunderstood so much.

[u/Jfury412]

I can't believe you posted this in three different groups, and I'm going to have to make this comment three different times. Maybe just cross post next time?

You didn't even read the whole story. Remender is one of my favorite writers, top five, but he doesn't patch the ass on the pants of Jeff Lemire. And Remenders best top 5 books don't come anywhere close to this masterpiece, which is the best space opera ever written. I'm not even going to walk you through all the ways that you're wrong because you literally compared this heartfelt serious drama to Guardians of the Galaxy. There's not even one sentence in this entire story that's light-hearted or comedic in any way.

Also, the artwork is beyond perfect, and I don't know what your eyes were seeing. Saying that it felt incomplete in any way, everything was extremely meticulously intentional.

I don't know why when people hate something so bad they have to come on the internet and explain how bad they hate it, so they can help other people hate it too, so they don't have to Revel in misery by themselves. Maybe go read Ascender, or maybe it's just not for you.

But to come on here and start shitting on the story and on Lemire's writing when you didn't understand it whatsoever, and you got almost everything you said wrong... I just can't with redditors sometimes.

Black Science was Remender trying to do something like Decender but failed.. Black Science is great, one of my top 10 but again doesn't come anywhere close to this. Or any of Lemire's main books. Also, the science in Black Science made far less sense than any of the science in this book. When it comes to science accuracy, black science is Armageddon, and descender is Interstellar/Project Hail Mary/ The Martian.

Don't even waste your time asking me to explain it because I have no interest in this conversation. I'm just stating the facts so people don't get misled by this post of yours. This is one of the most praised graphic novels ever written, and it deserves it more than almost any graphic novel ever written.

Once again, I'm just copying what I said the first time I read this Insanity. When it comes to Descender, I'm the Defender.