r/Israel • u/Alonn12 Hummus is love, Hummus is life :orly: • Nov 05 '24

News/Politics Netanyahu fires Gallant, says no trust with defense minister at time of war - MEGATHREAD

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-november-5-2024/
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215

u/kach-oti-al-hagamal Nov 05 '24

Can someone explain it to me simply...

What ramifications will this have

  • for the war
  • and for Israeli society in general?

108

u/vegan437 Israel Nov 05 '24

Gallant is highly experienced military man, grew up in the commandos (shayetet 13). He was almost chief of staff. Katz is less professional.
The goal of the move is to stabilise the government which had serious problems over the Haredim IDF exemption (which Gallant opposed).

95

u/[deleted] Nov 05 '24

"Less professional" is doing some heavy lifting here.
I'd characterize him as a "complete joke"

37

u/vegan437 Israel Nov 05 '24

I kinda liked him as transportation minister, but as finance minister he was a disaster. Anyway he knows nothing about running the military. Gallant was on top of everything, with good working relations with the IDF / Mossad / Shabak / USA. Now there's a huge vacuum in a central position. I hope this decision is reverted.

10

u/DiscipleOfYeshua Nov 06 '24

I was fine with him until he accepted being made minister of defense. Seems hugely irresponsible.

“Sir, with all due respect for your deep trust in me, I’ve only flown a remote control airplane on weekends when I was a teen; I don’t know how to operate a 747, so you’d be better off keeping the current pilot until you find a qualified one to replace him.”

???

10

u/DownvoteALot Nov 05 '24 edited Nov 06 '24

Literally said "I am more than Herod" claiming he's solely responsible for Israel's trade capabilities and transport infrastructure. Obviously it's blatantly false but there's nothing to be proud of there. He's delusional and if he leads the same way he led the economy and transports we're doomed. Although his role here is to be a yes man who will obey Bibi's commands and not recruit Haredim.

It's all fucked. I hate this country. Things were looking up under Bennett and they ruined everything. This will be very hard to reverse.

19

u/Jasfy Nov 05 '24

Gallant didn’t just oppose: he sent out 7000 call up orders to Haredim (either expressly against Bibi wishes or knowing it was going to get him fired after he learned that he was in the hot seat anyway)  Essentially he threatened the coalitions stability: a red line for Bibi 

4

u/vegan437 Israel Nov 06 '24

I'm not sure how much choice Gallanthad. The ministers are bound to the Knesset, which didn't have the 61 MKs to renew the exemption since some of the coalition's 64 MKs went against it. Gallant was one of the "rebels" (as MK, not as a minister).

2

u/Jasfy Nov 06 '24

I think it’s fair to frame it that way, I think delaying the call up after the earlier fiasco (150 reporting out of thousands of call ups orders, protests etc) or finding excuses was a possibility; the fact he chose to do it publicly (with pictures etc) put him on a collision course; it’s possible he did it after finding out he was almost certainly getting fired anyway Coalition has 68* MK’s…

507

u/CHLOEC1998 England Nov 05 '24

For the war:

Gallant was a general, Katz was not. Gallant knew how to fight, he knew what it takes to win a war, and he is trusted by most people. Katz has no command expeience. And he embarrasses himself multiple times as the FM.

For the society:

It just makes Israel look like a communist/dictatorship regime. Gallant (according to polls) is more trusted than Bibi. By sacking him, Bibi secures more power since the new Minister of Defence is his lapdog.

Tldr: clusterf*ck.

183

u/ViciousNakedMoleRat Germany Nov 05 '24

Bibi waited for election day in the US to do it, knowing that everyone and especially the Americans will be preoccupied with that.

Once the election and its immediate repercussions settle down, this move will be in the rear-view mirror.

50

u/Basic_Suggestion3476 Israel Nov 05 '24

Netanyahu must pass the budget at the knesset (Israeli parliament). Gallant pushed & acted to recruit ultra-orthodox, which pissed the Haredi who threatened the budget pass (if it doesnt pass, the knesset is dispersed).

So Netanyahu fired Gallant, gave the FM seat to a now ex-opposition member. Who will now vote to prevent the Haredi recruitment to the IDF & help pass the new budget.

Its all part of a move to promise Netanyahu seat as PM.

101

u/[deleted] Nov 05 '24

Much more likely it’s connected to the Police raids in his office.

It still made the news in Israel and internationally (I got 2 push notifications from German media lol) and world leaders aren’t just sitting around panically speculating about the US election.

59

u/ViciousNakedMoleRat Germany Nov 05 '24

Bibi has wanted to get rid of Galant for some time. And of course world leaders are paying attention to it, but the public and the media will be completely plastered with US-election stories for days. There's only so much attention anyone can spend.

34

u/[deleted] Nov 05 '24

I don’t think he used the US election to cover the firing of Gallant but that he used the firing to cover the police publicizing raiding his offices just earlier today.

5

u/MassivePsychology862 Nov 05 '24

Who raided whom?

18

u/Salt_Cartoonist_6758 Nov 05 '24

The Haredim told him that the game was up and that they would bring the army exemption private members bill to a vote tomorrow. They promised that if it doesn’t pass they would quit the government (in other words, bring the government down). Now, everyone knew that the government doesn’t have the votes to pass it. So he did his usual kicking the can down the road move: he said, listen, the main obstacle for your bill is Gallant, let me get rid of him and put Katz in his stead, he’ll do what we want; in return give me more time and don’t bring your bill up for a vote tomorrow. They fell for it for now and there will be no vote tomorrow.

But clusterf*ck is certainly a shorter and more apt description.

13

u/poliscijunki USA Nov 05 '24

Are Israelis really that concerned with our election? I know it has major implications for Israel, not trying to downplay that. But there are already protests in Israel against this. I hope it isn't ignored.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 05 '24

Yes. I’m in a bunch of Israeli telegram channels and it’s all a bunch of hopium for Trump to win

5

u/[deleted] Nov 05 '24

American here. Nope. Caught it. Bibi crossed a line, and I’ll remember.

11

u/Strong-Piccolo-5546 Nov 05 '24

I am an American. so Netanyahu sees Gallant as a political rival? Gallant seems to have been managing the war well.

He also likely filed them on US election day to limit publicity.

1

u/JeanLucPicardAND Nov 07 '24

Netanyahu is a psychopath who just wants to maintain his power.

1

u/Motek2 Nov 07 '24

Per Netanyahu, war goes well despite Gallant. Like, Gallant strongly opposed entering Rafah, was against killing Nasrallah etc. Some people say he was let go because of Iran upcoming attack. In reality nobody knows.

1

u/Strong-Piccolo-5546 Nov 07 '24

only far right netanyahu supporters think Gallant was not largely or solely responsible for the war.

Gallant literally planned the entire nasrallah operation. What are you talking about it? This is just nutty right wing garbage.

26

u/IbnEzra613 Russian-American Jew Nov 05 '24

You explained the difference between Gallant and Katz, but you didn't actually explain what the ramifications would be (for the war at least). Can you clarify?

93

u/CHLOEC1998 England Nov 05 '24

As someone who doesn’t know how war works, Katz will have to heavily rely on others’ opinions. In other words, Bibi can easily override him when it comes to anything, given Bibi used to command Israel’s most elite unit.

Gallant was possibly the last person who could say no to Bibi. And he was also probably the last person who had the weight to tell Bibi that his decisions were dumb. He was the last roadblock, so to speak. Now, with Katz in charge, Bibi can just do whatever he wants.

49

u/bakochba Nov 05 '24

It actually makes a US arms embargo much more likely. Gallant was the only person they trusted.

1

u/RW_LovesGSD Nov 05 '24

Bibi never commanded the unit. His older brother did. Bibi left the army as a Major, and that is a rather low ranking officer.

-1

u/IbnEzra613 Russian-American Jew Nov 05 '24

Others' opinions like the actual IDF generals? I should hope any Defense Minister would be relying on input from IDF generals in order to make decisions.

Giving more power to Bibi is not really a ramification either. It just shifts the question over: What would a loyal-to-Bibi Defense Minister do differently from Galant in relation to the war?

53

u/[deleted] Nov 05 '24

One major difference is that Gallant was pushing for compulsory military service for Haredim. No more sitting in Yeshiva studying Torah while Israeli men and women are literally dying in defense of Israel. Katz doesn’t have the clout to push anything like this through, which means Bibi gets to keep the major political support he’s getting from the Haredim.

It also means the IDF will be more likely to just follow what the PM wants, rather than being a strong, independent partner in the war.

1

u/IbnEzra613 Russian-American Jew Nov 05 '24

Hmm I wonder if that's the issue that he's now being fired over...?

23

u/[deleted] Nov 05 '24

Absolutely. The protests are already starting.

3

u/IbnEzra613 Russian-American Jew Nov 05 '24

So does that mean you think Bibi's next step will be to get the Haredi draft canceled?

15

u/Clockblocker_V Nov 05 '24

Absolutely, no question. I appreciate the man's willingness to tell the rest of the world off during the war, I needs to be done.

But goddamn fuck him so much.

17

u/[deleted] Nov 05 '24

Israelis are sick of Bibi’s politicking. After a year of war in which reservists are taking the brunt of the casualties and have put their lives on hold to defend Israel, I would say there will be one of two outcomes. Either he will be forced to bring Gallant back, or this will expedite elections and he will be out of office.

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u/Substance_Bubbly Israel Nov 05 '24

thays literaly part of the point of the current law he tries to pass in the knesset, which gallant had refused on. the question of haredim being recruited into the IDF is the literal reason why gallant was fired.

it's disgusting to see bibi thinking his already doomed political career is more important than the war and the citizens and the country.

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u/SatisfactionLife2801 Israel Nov 05 '24

The point is that Kats will have to almost exclusively rely on IDF generals because of his lack of experience. Its not (or I hope so) that Gallant wasnt listening to IDF generals, its just that he can come up with his own gameplan and opinion due to his knowledge and experience.

I have no idea what this really means for the war, I'm not sure what the big differences between Gallant and Bibi were. I assume it has to do with deals for hostages and generally ending the war BUT I am speculating

37

u/CHLOEC1998 England Nov 05 '24

Dayan basically ignored Eshkol during the Six Day War and directly issued orders to the IDF, sometimes even bypassing Rabin (the Chief of Staff at the time). Baruch Hashem Dayan was the man in charge. And let’s not forget Ben Gurion came out of retirement to become the Defence Minister (instead of the PM) for the Suez Crisis. That is how powerful the position is.

I for one simply cannot trust Katz.

10

u/nobaconator Fashy Zionist Clicktivist Nov 05 '24

Others' opinions like the actual IDF generals?

I doubt this is about listening to IDF generals. This is about listening to Bibi.

What would a loyal-to-Bibi Defense Minister do differently from Galant in relation to the war?

Lots of things. Ultimately, it is the government that decides where the money goes. Which parts of the IDF are funded determines how we build a strategy coming out of this war. A loyal to Bibi defense minister would mindlessly approve just about anything Bibi wants, and Bibi wants to stay in power, so he might end up funding Central Command more than Southern or Northern Command. Keep in mind, this has been a consistent problem in the recent years. One of the reasons no one was listening in or acting on intelligence from Gaza was that they simply did not have the manpower.

Gallant has stood up to Bibi multiple times when it comes to decisions about the IDF. Like the Haredi draft. Again, not something the IDF generals are that involved in. But again, another chance for Bibi to play politics without resistance.

1

u/themightycatp00 Israel Nov 05 '24

Gallant was a general, Katz was not. Gallant knew how to fight, he knew what it takes to win a war, and he is trusted by most people. Katz has no command expeience. And he embarrasses himself multiple times as the FM.

Having military experience as the minister of defence is a bonus, either way he'll be surrounded by specialist advisors and work closely with the chiefs of the IDF, mossad, and shin bet.

Besides Katz does have command experience, he was a captain and a combatant in the IDF

It just makes Israel look like a communist/dictatorship regime. Gallant (according to polls) is more trusted than Bibi. By sacking him, Bibi secures more power since the new Minister of Defence is his lapdog.

I agree, bibi is hurting the country to cement his position in power despite bringing one of the worst wars we had in decades while the country is bracing for another Iranian attack.

1

u/SkweegeeS Nov 05 '24

What kind of power is that? That seems very weak.

86

u/Droi Nov 05 '24 edited Dec 02 '24

Here's an actual explanation:
This is a political termination. Bibi has about 99 problems but for him there is only one real problem: keeping his seat.
His seat is at risk because his coalition relies on the ultra-orthodox parties, and there has been a very long issue with getting them to serve in the IDF (which should be obvious, but they are terrified of losing their religion and turning secular - which is overblown by their own rabbis).

Bibi has been trying many different political tricks (during a war!) to somehow resolve or delay this issue, but it is reaching a boiling point that cannot be ignored anymore - the Haredis are giving an ultimatum (even though they technically don't have a better alternative even if a new government is formed) and Bibi needs to show them he is serious in trying to solve their problem - even firing his defense minister in the middle of a war (some would argue this is treason, I wouldn't blame them). Gallant has been insisting that he wants to find a solution that solves the army's needs, and something's gotta give.

While this clusterf*ck is going on, Bibi and his staff are being investigated for very serious security criminal offenses, with a lot of mystery around the charges.

Bibi firing Gallant is a very desperate act, because he has done it before and it paralyzed the country with protests and strikes - to the point it made him take it back. This means he really sees no alternative to this political last ditch effort to save his coalition (and his own seat).

The war will continue regardless, this has nothing to do with it and a new election would take many months to settle.
Israel is going to be seeing a lot of unrest and it's most likely going to break the coalition - even in the Likud party people are not willing to risk the lives of their children who are serving in the army just to keep Bibi's seat.
Even if there is an election, it is not clear that a new coalition could be formed (as has happened multiple times in recent years, and Israel had to go to new elections several times in a row). Bibi's resilience, intelligence, and narcissism is an unfortunate and tragic combination that leaves Israel in a bind that is hard to untangle.

Edit: A month later, evidence comes out for my theory: Maariv story about how Bibi was able to postpone the Haredis from resigning by firing Gallant:
https://www.maariv.co.il/news/politics/article-1152987

I love how most people who hate Netanyahu hate him for the wrong reasons. He is not a warmonger, he is not racist, he is not stupid, he is not evil. He is just extremely narcissistic and willing to risk your children's lives to keep his seat.

19

u/kach-oti-al-hagamal Nov 05 '24

thanks for the explanation. I'm literally doing aliyah this month. News like this just freaks me out and makes me worry that we won't even have a country

10

u/Sewsusie15 אני דתי לאומי; נעם לא מדבר בשמי Nov 05 '24

Welcome, and good for you for asking questions! You'll almost certainly be eligible to vote in our next election. Better to have some idea of what's been going on beforehand.

6

u/Droi Nov 06 '24

Don't worry, Israel is bigger than this. If you decided to move to Israel in the middle of a 7-front war this should not change it. 😄
Israeli politics are sad and annoying, if Bibi had the decency and actual patriotism to step down all of this would have been resolved.

1

u/kach-oti-al-hagamal Nov 06 '24

Thanks for the reassurance!

Actually I started aliyah paperwork right before this whole war started lol :D talk about timing!

60

u/Moonkiller24 פתח תקווה לא קיימת Nov 05 '24

Sure.

I HATE BIBI SO FUCKING MUCH!!!!!!!!!!

I would say what I wish for him but ill get banned.

HE IS RUINING OUR COUNTEY

33

u/No_Engineering_8204 Nov 05 '24

This could lead to people not in the cult refusing to serve, since this seems to confirm that war decision-making is done with internal politics first and national security maybe second

1

u/kulamsharloot Nov 06 '24

I'm considered far right.

I'm not pleased with Katz being the security minister just as much as I'm pleased with Bibi firing Galant.

Galant has had many opinions that if they took place they would've been devastating for us security was (he was against Nasrallah's assassination,against seizing Philadelphy corridor etc).

However, the timing is fishy, the laws being passed regarding haredi drafts, I assume that they think that right now keeping the government whole is more important.

Regardless, the anti Bibi crowd never failed to protest, they always find the slightest reason, as they usually are just opposed to him , no matter what, as it's their right but for me I can't take them seriously, no matter how their reasoning is justified.

-37

u/1BobbyMcgee Nov 05 '24

For the war, probably not much difference.

For Israeli society, leftists will use this as another excuse to keep protesting for bibi’s elimination.

So eventually, this will make 0 difference… This is the POV of a pessimist realist Israeli.

28

u/MiyutanFan PolSci is life Nov 05 '24

It's always funny to me how some people are like "protests=leftists" completely ignoring the fact that there's practically no more left wing in Israel and a large part of the people in these protests are actually... Centrist and right wing.

I've been there, saw people from all over the political spectrum who are dissatisfied with whatever the fuck the government is doing.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 05 '24

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3

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1

u/Jasfy Nov 05 '24

The calls to refuse orders/not serve are coming in fast from the far left. Accusations that this is politics are coming from the center left. All that spectrum are calling for protests. So protesters themselves im sure are a plurality of Israeli society to some extent but the political messaging is from the left.

1

u/1BobbyMcgee Nov 06 '24

Well if I write ‘people’ instead of leftists my statement still hold whether all the downvotes like to admit it or not.

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u/[deleted] Nov 05 '24

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30

u/No_Engineering_8204 Nov 05 '24

Gallant was the one pushing to go after hezbollah first before going into gaza. Bibi cultists rewriting history as usual

-11

u/Blue_John Nov 05 '24

Yes Gallant wanted to attack Lebanon on October 11th while our army was in shambles. Everybody INCLUDING SMOTRICH who also supported it at that time, say it would've been a huge mistake to attack Hezbollah that early.

In August Gallant said we have to go to make a deal to avoid getting in to lebanon:

https://www.mako.co.il/news-diplomatic/2024_q3/Article-3bda9f41bde9191027.htm

15

u/Mylifemess Nov 05 '24

And what Smotrich did to prevent 7 October? Or Ben Gvir or PM?

20

u/Idoberk Israel Nov 05 '24

Everybody INCLUDING SMOTRICH

The all mighty general Smotrich who fought so many wars

18

u/Y_Brennan Nov 05 '24

Straight up bullshit. The PM is corrupt his inner circle are committing treason and you continue to defend him. Are economy is going down the drain. Are international standing has been decimated. The worst prime minister in the history of this country and the biggest threat to our existence. 

-8

u/[deleted] Nov 05 '24

you are correct

1

u/[deleted] Nov 05 '24

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1

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