r/JUSTNOMIL • u/k_rowz • 23d ago
Am I Overreacting? Just need a quick gut check
Long history of MIL trying to be my toddler’s mother, trying desperately to be the third parent, etc.
To get right to the point: we had in-laws over for a two hour visit (hubby knows I do not tolerate longer and this is a boundary we have agreed upon so no issues with the visit itself occurring).
MIL is always hands all over my kid (trying to hold her for waaaay too long, hugs that last very long and are exclusively for her enjoyment, constantly touching/rubbing/hands resting on my baby-now-toddler).
During one part of the visit, we were all sitting on the floor of the play area and MIL kept rubbing my toddler’s back UNDER her shirt. She was talking to others present, not my child, while doing it. So it was a very bold thing to be doing absent-mindedly, in my opinion?
Anyway, it went on and off for like ten minutes before I texted my husband to tell him I’m not okay with this but then she stopped. We moved on to a different activity, as a group.
I just need to know: is this as weird as I think it is?
Given our history, I know MIL fancies herself my baby’s second mom, which I’ve made clear to her before is not okay with me. She tries to erase me by saying things like “my baby” to my daughter and she has even spoken about my baby shower as “[baby’s name]’s shower.”
All of these things just infuriate me, so I know my judgement is a bit biased in that I just straight up don’t like this lady who is trying to take my place as the mother and #1 nurturing presence in my daughters life.
So, was the under the shirt rubbing my toddler’s back during playtime actually weird?
This is something my own mom would never do to my kid. I know grandmas are all different but I’m having a hard time with this.
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u/moodyinam 23d ago
It's not the bare skin that's a problem. If a child was in a swimsuit with a bare back, that would seem natural to show affection by touching their back. But to lift clothing is crossing a line. We often talk to children about respecting their privacy. If they are too young to understand body autonomy, we often tell them other people shouldn't remove or reach under clothing. MIL is probably just a touchy person, but so are groomers. Maybe explain to MIL that you don't want your child to think it's okay for ANYONE to touch under clothing.
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u/k_rowz 23d ago
Yeah, I know she’s not like some kind of predator or something, but there was also an instance in the past where she tried to take my daughter into the bathroom with her at a family party and I was like does this woman have any sense of physical boundaries at all? She just treats my kid like it’s her baby. I really don’t likehow she’s so overly comfortable with the physical stuff.
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u/TheLilSqueegee 22d ago
Maybe frame it (or, even better, have your husband frame it) as, "MIL, we know you won't do anything untoward, but we don't want Kiddo to think it's normal for someone to reach under clothes to touch her, for her safety. If she thinks it's normal, she might not recognize or be too young to understand when it isn't. We need your help to keep her safe."
That way, her help is "needed" to keep Kiddo safe, so maybe she'll latch onto that instead of being all grabby granny.
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u/k_rowz 22d ago
That’s a great way to say it!! Thank you. Will be using this.
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u/TheLilSqueegee 22d ago
Lol get Kiddo to start calling her GG. Sounds like a cute grandma name unless you know what it stands for 🤣
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u/MoonageDayscream 22d ago
Some people are groomers that never cross the line to actually assaulting a child. But their grooming normalizes the behaviors that attract predators and let them know that the parents are not aware of the danger. You need to read the books The Gift of Fear and Protecting the Gift, both by Gavin DeBecker. I know there is free pdf for the first. Go find it now. Even if mil never touches anything but your child's back, she is making it so your child will think it normal if a friend's parent or a teacher or coach does the same thing with different intent.
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u/bland-risotto 22d ago
To me, this reads like she's trying to shortcut her way to a close bond with your kid. People who have emotional neeeeeds that they require others to meet do things like this imho. Other things they might do is eg buy excessive gifts, make up cute nicknames when you've known them for 1 day or that are boundary crossing ("my baby" 🤮), say yes to every request, bribing with anything (to a kid that might be ice cream or staying up after bedtime), they just do too much too soon and the whole point is to make the person uncomfortable actually. They want them, subconsciously or not, to feel like they're being given so much kindness and care that they can't reject the giver. Saying or showing "stop touching me (or stop touching my child)" to grandma is HARD and she knows it. She's just emotionally unintelligent enough to think that despite it being invasive, the physical closeness in itself will still turn into love. Because they don't know what the path to genuine love is, they only know what the end result looks like so they try to get to the finish line immediately, not understanding that the path is a fucking requirement to ever get there. It's delusion and manipulation working together. And I don't care about the sob story reason or how it's not entirely intentional. If she doesn't know how to naturally bond (read the room, give space, give time, check in, let others come to her - especially a kid that's like key if you're not the parent, knowing the line between an occasional kind gesture/favor and giving too much causing the receiver to feel guilt, and CONSENT for physical touch, among other things), she's not an emotionally safe person for your child. These things are necessary skills.
It's kind of like grooming but less calculated (and non-sexual), I think. Love bombing sort of fits too. Whatever name it could be given, it's just not cute or pleasant so she needs to be held back. Talking to her about it I assume would be like talking to a toddler about not trying to stick their fingers in a socket - they'll cry or say they understand but 7 seconds later there they go again because there's no impulse control or actual comprehension of the issue.
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u/k_rowz 22d ago edited 22d ago
Yes!!! Yes. I think you nailed the “emotional neediness” that this woman has. She is STILL obsessed with and infantilizes her adult children (she counts the days since she’s seen them, she makes them Easter baskets and elaborate Christmas gifts that are childish, she makes us gather at her house for a traditional bday party for every adult kids’ bday and gets UPSET if we don’t want to come, etc.).
She has so much neediness. And she 100% knows it’s hard to refute the “loving grandma.” So she’s like pushing my buttons constantly with my treasure baby that I struggled to get pregnant with in the first place. Shit HURTS me. Why can’t she take joy and fulfillment on watching me be a mother? Why does it have to be HER as the number one matriarch?
Edit: if you’re curious, for work, she is a nanny. She’s always always ALWAYS had a sob story for whatever family she happens to be with at the time. “The mom is so inattentive to the poor kids! I love on them so much! They need me!” Etc. that sort of thing. This has been the case since I was dating my husband, btw. So not unique to this stage of life.
I think she really has this deep need to feel needed, especially now that her own kids have left the nest. She is using my kid as a stand in so she can re-live feeling needed as a mom.
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u/bland-risotto 22d ago
Ah, of course she's a nanny. That's perfect for the needy to be needed. And infantilizing her children, typical. My mom is actually somewhat like this, but not nearly as bad, and she always said that she loved the newborn phase with us kids and that she was a much better baby mom than teenage mom (and I of course understood that it was because she loved being needed and then hated us becoming more independent). But anyway, it's sad that your MIL has gone her whole life and not dealt with her trauma and healed, because that shit is trauma. My mom went to therapy and got much better, but it's not all gone. She doesn't get upset when I occasionally have to tell her she's slipping though, she just apologizes and stops so that's good.
Would she read a book about this? There's one called Mother Hunger by Kelly McDaniel that seems spot-on for your MIL (I haven't read it yet but am interested in it for my mom).
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u/k_rowz 22d ago
I will absolutely look into the book. She fancies herself a reader but idk if she’d be interested in this book because she is really tight with her own mom and isn’t the implication that there are unmet needs from one’s mother causing issues? I doubt she’d own up to that… but I could be wrong!
Wonderful to read you d made progress with your own mother, though. ❤️
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u/Local-Statement-2559 22d ago
Have you considered suggesting she become a foster care parent? Absolutely everywhere is always, ALWAYS desperate for foster parents. Then she could be a mom and some kids that need help could have a safe place. I mean, if she isn't objectively a good person who is just a pain in your ass then of course don't suggest it. But if she is, then mention it at the right moment in the next two hour visit. If she can follow her employers' directions she can comply with court, caseworker and therapist instructions.
Either way, good luck with her.
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u/den-of-corruption 22d ago
sometimes it's less about the exact action and more about the context in which it appears.
babies and toddlers are partially an extension of their parents because the parents are the ones who oversee safety and consent etc. this sub sees a lot of MILs who refuse to give back babies, because they get two things: baby time and power over the mother, who's had her oversight ignored/pointedly denied. it's an expression of power, not affection.
rubbing the toddler's back under the shirt would be totally normal in my family. however, if it's combined with constantly finding ways to make contact with toddler, refusing to let go of hugs etc., it's a lot.
seems like a great time to teach toddler to firmly resist unwanted affection. i taught my cousins 'karate chop!' and 'push push!' to get away from my grandma whenever they wanted to. it's not rude to say no!
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u/PurrtenderBender 22d ago
I feel like you’ve done what I did and given her some amount of power and affect on you. Pretend she’s dead. That’s what I am doing. Occasionally I acknowledge the dead ghost when I absolutely have to but most of the time, I am not talking to the dead. I have noticed my child interacts less if I am not interacting but I have also noticed it has caused her to use extremes to try and be with my child including bribery and excruciatingly painful high pitch shreaks. I guess at the end of the day to me it matters less because she’s dead in my head so makes my days easier
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u/SnooPets8873 23d ago
I think when someone has done a lot to really get in the way of parenting and upset you or insulted you, it’s hard not to be annoyed at anything that implies that they are a welcome presence in the child’s life or close to the child. You don’t say anything to indicate your child is uncomfortable or wants to get away from her or for the touching to stop. I think that’s pretty key because grandma rubbing a back is not a big deal, certainly not inappropriate in my opinion and wouldn’t register as an event in my mind unless I thought the kid involved was annoyed by it. I think it’s pretty human though to prefer that someone who you dislike and hasn’t treated you well didn’t get to have a positive relationship with your kid.
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u/k_rowz 23d ago
Yeah… I get what you’re saying. I’m not as concerned with a back rub. I agree it’s typical grandma behavior. It’s the need to lift up her shirt and do it on and off fur like ten minutes? Idk I guess I’m just annoyed because nobody else feels the need to do that and it reads Mommy to me?
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u/Ok_Reach_4329 23d ago
I agree with you..the lifting up the shirt and placing your hand on my child’s skin is the issue for me too!
Edit to add…I have a good relationship with my MIL and mom and I would find this weird and would ask them both to not lift my child’s shirt to touch him!
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u/ElephantNamedColumbo 23d ago
I think it’s all about context.
I do that with my grandkids… but for a short period of time- and ONLY if the child appears to be comfortable with it.
It’s a closeness- a bonding thing.
But in MY case- I ALWAYS try to be very respectful with my grandchildren their parents…
…because I am NOT their parent!
I don’t push my opinions on my kids,
OR myself on my grandkids…
…I know that it’s a privilege to be a part of their lives…
and I appreciate the good parenting my kids & their spouses are doing- which I make sure to convey to them!
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u/Background-Staff-820 23d ago
I'm a respectful grandma, too. I must have done something similar. My grandmother rubbed my back to help me go to sleep when I slept over at her house.
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u/SnooPets8873 23d ago
Well presumably most of those people aren’t a close relative like “grandma” status. I think this comes down to you not liking that she feels comfortable enough with your kid to casually be affectionate or interact with them in this way. She isn’t doing this to random two year olds right, or even the kids of friends? But this is her grandchild so she feels close enough to do it and you wish she didn’t. And you may attribute that to it being a “mommy” thing but it’s not for everyone, that’s a pretty subjective thing.
Basically, I think what I’m saying is that it’s good to actively remember that a kid isn’t just your child. They are also someone’s nibling or best friend or grandchild and that means they will have close relationships, meaningful connections and love people other than you. The only way to reduce that with respect to particular individuals if the child doesn’t themselves have a problem with that person? Is to reduce the contact so that grandma becomes more of a stranger or in the kid’s mental category for “people I’m aware exist and see once a year or less”. But that seems a bit sad to take away a potentially loving relationship when quite frankly most people’s networks are already shrinking to nothing and so many people have almost no one to rely on for emotional or financial support. Don’t you want a deep bench for your kid? More people who are rooting for them and show up for them? Of course if she is a genuinely negative or harmful person for the child or you to be around, that would be very different. But you don’t seem to go that far in your description.
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u/k_rowz 23d ago
I agree that my child will have loving relationships with people that are not me. Of course! If my daughter ran up to her grandma and was asking for a back rub underneath her shirt, like okay I guess that’s her own free will so have at it. I’m not a dictator. I’m her mom.
Right now, my daughter does not ask for or indicate she wants these things. She’s turning two in a few months. She can barely talk. If I didn’t intervene, MIL would carry her around all family parties and not even give her the chance to walk around and explore.
My daughter is absolutely going to have a loving relationship with this person. But the touchey-feely obsession with my kid has got to stop. This feels related, to me.
Also - in no way is this woman supporting us financially lol not sure where the “financial support” comes in, from your village, but neither sets of grandparents are supporting us financially. We will likely be supporting them in a few years.
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u/SnooPets8873 23d ago
The reference to financial support was to allude to a potential safety net as opposed to being alone in the world someday if things go wrong - not trying to say they are or will help you specifically. But it’s not unusual for grandparents or relatives to give gifts to their grandchildren that range from birthday money to cars to inheritance after their death. If my niece and nephew ever run into trouble and my sister can’t step in for whatever reason? I’m right here.
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u/Illustrious-Mix-4491 23d ago
I think it annoys you more because you can’t stand her. Rightfully so, but the action itself in and of itself is not abnormal. As the saying goes, if you look for something to be offended about, you will find it.
That however does not mean that you should not stay diligent.
I also think as your child grows she naturally will pull away from this kind of contact with MIL. What you need to watch for is MIL trying g to guilt child into meeting her needs such as “grandma needs a hug”.
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u/MaryHadALittleLamb20 23d ago
I find that weird.. I'd perhaps try picking LO up and remove her from being in a position where MIL can touch her.
Perhaps remind MIL that it is best to keep her hand to herself until your baby is old enough to verbal acknowledge whether she is okay with that.
Next time she uses the 'my baby' I would say MIL are you trying to say you conceived LO with your son because that sounds rather creepy.
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u/madgeystardust 23d ago
Stop sitting quietly while she fondles your child as a sign of ownership.
Use your words, you have a voice - use it.
Advocate for your kid. Don’t sit quietly while they’re pawed by relatives - it doesn’t matter who that relative is.
Start speaking up, YOU are your baby’s voice until they have their own. Show them how from young.
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u/Rainbow_Girl_1990 23d ago
I have a similar issue. My LO is 6 months old. My MIL constantly has to be touching or holding her. It drives me absolutely insane. It's to the point where I feel I can not be the one holding her if my MIL is present. She is the same with her other grandchildren who are toddlers. They're usually sitting on her lap, never next to her on the couch, etc. I don't have much advice as I, too, have discussed this with my husband, and I am trying to navigate it. I'm just lending some support here that I think we have a good gut feeling around a "normal" amount of physical contact and what starts to become a bit much.
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u/Ok_Reach_4329 23d ago
Yeah thats weird and I would feel a type of way if my in-laws or mother did that to my child…I do it to my son all the time and think it would be a little to intimate for another adult that’s not his parent to do.
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u/No-Dress-6299 18d ago
I'm a very huggy touchy person. My great niece is like my granddaughter as my sister died so I'm the next best thing and I can honestly say that is weird to me. Skin to skin from birth is a parents connection not for any reason for anyone else. The only exception I will make is for siblings when they are close in age because kids do as their parents do but no I'd find some excuse and remove my child from that unless you don't mind the drama then I'd tell her straight out don't do that it's weird. You're mam doesn't matter if everyone thinks you are crazy and she is doing nothing wrong. If you don't want it done to your baby then they don't do it or they don't come around
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u/berried_aprons 23d ago
That’s a lot of unnecessary touching, and why does she need to go under shirt?! Eek no. This is not something a toddler would be asking for, this is her needing to be touchy feely or trying to control toddler’s movements.
Whatever the reason, if it’s making you uncomfortable it’s more than enough reason to run interference. Your child doesn’t need to stick by nana to satisfy her cravings, if she’s starved for connection she can get a cat.
Not overreacting. If your “mom gage” is activated it must be picking up some off base/unusual behaviour. The fact that it’s entitled, overstepping Mil makes it even worse. In any case, even if she was the nicest person or your best friend I bet you would still be feeling iffy about it because it borderline’s on violating your child’s body autonomy.
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u/Stock-Mountain-6063 23d ago
If you were sitting right there why did you have to text your husband to tell the mother-in-law to stop? You're the mother just say please don't do that or remove the child.
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u/k_rowz 23d ago
I was unsure about how to say something. I knew my husband would say something if I clued him in, it’s his mom. Not my proudest or most assertive moment, I know, but I assumed the folks here would understand and be supportive? Lol
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u/Visikitty 23d ago
Yes, definitely better for it to come through him rather than you. It sounds like everything she does kind of annoys you (no judgement, Im the same with my justno), so its better for him to see it in the moment and address it. If its truly no big deal, then he doesn't have to say anything.
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u/k_rowz 23d ago
Yeah I’ll be the first admit that since I’ve had my baby, everything she does is annoying to me. But in my defense, her behavior indicates that she only cares for my baby lol I was just an incubator so that she could re-live being a mom, apparently.
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u/Visikitty 23d ago
One thing Ive learned is that you dont have to justify being annoyed by annoying people, lol. Just because her family has learned to live with it doesn't mean it's okay. I also dont get annoyed just by someone calling a grandchild 'my baby' BUT it's usually coupled with a lot of behaviour that makes mom feel like an incubator, so of course the my baby thing is going to be irritating. Its an easy behaviour to spot and retell, whereas other things can be just as hurtful but less obvious and harder to express in words.
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u/k_rowz 23d ago
I really, truly appreciate your honest responses. You’re right. I wouldn’t be as bothered by the “my baby” comments if other behaviors weren’t also happening. I can only try to not let the small stuff bother me while my kiddo is young.
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u/FlowerAdditional116 22d ago
First of all I just wanted to say I’m so sorry you’re feeling this way, unfortunately I can totally 100% get where you are coming from as a mom to a 6 month old. Everything just adds up all the time and then they end up doing something that wouldn’t normally bother you but you remember everything else they’ve done recently and it irritates you. I was sat on the floor with my son recently and he has been learning to sit so he had hold of my finger and my mil came along, sat behind my son and pulled him in close towards her so he was forced to let go of my fingers. I was absolutely furious and still am but I just can’t bring myself to say anything. My mom says ‘my baby’ frequently and It doesn’t seem to trigger anything for me but I think that’s because she leaves me to parent and make choices for my son. If my mil says ‘my baby’ it infuriates me lol. I’m sorry I have no advice but I promise you you’re not alone and you are much more than an incubator, you are your babies whole entire world ❤️
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u/den-of-corruption 22d ago
sometimes people on this sub can be... sharp with their criticism. you're doing your best and that's clear!
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u/Sufficient-Split5214 1d ago
Because MIL would take it better from her son than from her. It's better if the spouses manage their own parents.
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u/redfancydress 23d ago
She’s trying to force intimacy with your child. Rubbing a child’s back under their shirt is a PARENT THING to do. You let it go on for ten mins. Next time you stop it right away by picking up child and getting them a snack. And next time the kid wears overalls.
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u/mama2babas 23d ago
I would feel weird about the touchy-feely from extended family, but I also wouldn't let any relative grab on my son like that. I would ask them to give him space and remove him from her under the guise of a diaper change if I had to and then physically block access.
Do you have to see her frequently? I would be furious if my MIL was touching my child but she uses my child for her own emotional gratification and is highly enmeshed with her adult children. If you see her frequently, this seems possessive and crosses boundaries. If not frequently, she is being inappropriate forcing skin to skin contact like that. Your toddler cant consent or probably verbalize if they are uncomfortable. I can't see anything my MIL does as harmless so we're NC. If my FIL, who i adore, but he's so obsessed with my son did this i would speak up. He respects me as a mom though and I know he'll react normally. MIL would have an emotional butt-hurt reaction and probably cry and leave immediately. That kind of reaction justifies the need for the boundaries, though.
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u/k_rowz 23d ago
I have fought tooth and nail to establish some distance and enforce the boundaries we hold today. The visits are usually every 2-3 weeks. If it were totally up to me, it’d be once a month and that’s it. :/
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u/SnooRabbits6391 20d ago
It’s not necessarily weird, but in context with her trying to replace you, it’s a major issue. Tell your husband that you won’t tolerate that. And it should be his responsibility to communicate that boundary with her. Maybe it’s time to cut visits shorter. Or have clear terms in what is and is not acceptable when it comes to interacting with toddler. Don’t let her continue to disrespect you, especially in your own house.
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u/Potential-Pickle-948 23d ago
I just read back on your posts because your MIL sounds very similar to mine. My daughter is 14 months old and I’m pregnant with number two. We’ve just now cut babysitting down to once a week, so you’re definitely further along in the boundary setting than I am!
This would freak me out. My MIL loved when my baby would “search her chest” when I was breastfeeding. This was the beginning so I didn’t realize just how crazy she was or how much she would try to play mom
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u/k_rowz 23d ago
Ughhh nooo girl I am here for you. It’s been so very tough to navigate. :( my relationship with her prior to baby was so normal. It’s insane how it’s changed.
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u/Potential-Pickle-948 23d ago
Same! We got along great pre pregnancy! And now I avoid her as much as I can!
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u/boundaries4546 23d ago
My kids love back rubs. They (not as much as they are older) would sit beside her lift the back of their shirts as a hint. I must admit if it was my MIL I probably find it annoying (I know it’s a double standard) because I don’t like her. I don’t think there is anything nefarious going on. MIL probably gets under your skin.
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u/GloomChampion 23d ago
No, it’s not weird. It’s your baby’s grandma, not a stranger, and it’s normal for family to show affection. Esp since this is out in the public and it doesn’t sound like she was doing it against your kid’s will.
To me, this is a bitch eating crackers scenario. She’s already done so many annoying things, over stepped, and given you the creeps that likely anything she does is likely to set you off. And that’s not a critique! I totally get that feeling. And reading your history, I would bet my reaction to her would be similar to yours.
But I think if you had a normal relationship and she was just a doting grandma, and not so OTT obsessed with your kid, you may not have even noticed what she was doing or even thought it was sweet.
•
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Other posts from /u/k_rowz:
MIL referred to herself as DH’s “core family”, 1 month ago
Finally breaking up childcare arrangement with MIL who has treated my daughter like her own baby since baby was 3 months old, 3 months ago
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