r/JUSTNOMIL • u/Holiday-Beyond-2843 • 1d ago
UPDATE - Ambivalent About Advice JustNoMIL Mean to Kids
I’m NC with my MIL and FIL (see prior post for context). My husband still texts and calls them, and he and our kids still see them twice a year, even though it always makes my husband really stressed out to be around them.
MIL made wildly inappropriate comments about my SIL to my husband, but I feel that is my SIL’s story to tell, and too private for me to share here. It reinforced my desire (and my SIL’s) to remain NC.
During the most recent visit, MIL and FIL were both cruel to our 13yo son, H: they kept losing things (her fan, his phone, his hat), and then accused our son of stealing and hiding them, which he absolutely did not.
Now, our 13yo is absentminded, but never malicious. Early on in the trip, H had been playing with his 11yo brother M’s fidget toy, stuck it in his pocket, and forgot he did it. M went looking for the toy, and eventually found it in H’s laundry bag. H apologized, and that should have been the end of it. H and M get along great.
Then, FIL lost his phone and couldn’t find it anywhere. He went around blustering about it. 13yo H saw the phone right on the coffee table, picked it up, and laughingly said, “Uh, is this it?” (H was laughing bc the phone was right in plain sight.) FIL then got angry at H for stealing the phone, despite H’s protests, and even after my husband told him to cut it out. They refused to believe H that he had not done it.
Later, when MIL misplaced her fan, and FIL misplaced his hat, they were both absolutely convinced that 13yo H had stolen the items and was hiding them from them, and got angry at him again. 13yo H and 15yo T laughed a couple times during the accusations, since the situation was so absurd. There are only so many times H could explain that it wasn’t him.
They just would not drop it, for days, to the point that my husband yelled at them to cut it out and left the dinner table to cool off.
When the kids came back home, 13yo H told me, “That was the first time an adult has not believed me, and thought I did something bad when I didn’t.” I could tell he felt really bad that his grandparents didn’t trust him and had repeatedly gotten angry at him for things he didn’t do.
About a week after the trip, MIL sent 13yo H a text, saying she “knew” he had taken and hidden their things, and that it would mean a lot to her if he would text FIL and apologize.
We discussed with H potential responses (“I can’t apologize for something I didn’t do,” “It hurts my feelings that you don’t trust me,” or just silence). H ended up deciding to just not respond to the text. Poor kid.
We talked to H about it, trying to make him feel better. We reassured him that they do really love him, and they are getting older and clearly a bit paranoid and are not as logical as they used to be.
…The truth is, though, my husband told me privately that they seem just as mentally with it as ever. I guess they are just illogical and paranoid people.
So sad that they made their own grandson feel this way. At least he is old enough, and has enough close and extended family members who treat him well, that it colors his relationship with them but doesn’t touch his sense of self.
Now they have invited themselves for Thanksgiving. I am going to check into a hotel for Thursday and Friday nights while they hang out with my husband and the kids, and then we will have our family Thanksgiving meal on Saturday without them there. (They always stay at a hotel when they visit, we don’t have space for guests.) Husband warned them that they could not see him or the kids that night, so they are prepared for that. Hopefully they either apologize to H, or at least have the good sense not to bring it up again.
Edit: I plan to invite H to join me at the hotel, no guilt, pressure, or judgment whatever he decides.
Edit: This is only the 4th time in 17 years that their bad behavior has involved one of the kids. 1st: FIL wouldn’t stop speeding and taking wrong lane in mountain drive when I was 7 months pregnant, although husband and I both asked and told him to stop. That is the last time he has driven with any of us in the car. 2nd: MIL and FIL kept holding our first baby’s face in direct sunlight for pictures, even after I asked them to stop, causing the baby to get his first sunburn. We are not such pushovers now, and wouldn’t let anything like that happen again. 3rd: MIL gave our son the silent treatment when he asked her to go look at the stars with him, bc she was mad at the adults. This was the 4th. Their bad behavior does not usually target the kids, in other words - and we have taken steps to ensure the kids’ safety.
Update: Just talked to H again about it, asking him if he wants to join me at the hotel during MIL’s and FIL’s stay. He asked me if I thought they would bring it up again, and I told him that his dad was already planning on making them promise not to ever bring it up again. He said he only wants to spend time with them if they make that promise. Totally fair.
Second update, husband texted his parents the following:
“I do need to talk to you about something before the Thanksgiving trip. It’s about the incident in which dad lost his phone and his hat and mom lost her fan, and (H) got falsely accused of stealing or hiding them. He did not do any of that - it’s not up for debate. It was why I got so mad and left the restaurant. He did not do those things. We thought it was ridiculous that they got accused of it repeatedly and then you even asked for an apology. This was even after I told you he didn’t do it. Regardless of what you think actually happened (again, not up for debate), if I told you he didn’t do it, you cannot go around me and ask him for an apology. He feels really really bad about being falsely accused, and that you didn’t trust him when he said he didn’t do it. He will stay at the hotel with (wife) when you are here for Thanksgiving unless you promise me not to ever bring it up again or repeat this behavior. I’ll leave it up to you if you want to apologize to him. I know you think he did it, so I doubt he could expect an apology from you… but he does deserve one.
You might want to ask yourself what’s more likely- misplacing something in a foreign environment, or your grandson being malicious and then lying about it. If you HONESTLY think the second case is more likely, that’s fine.
Please let me know if that’s the case, and he will make the choice to not be around you.”
MIL responded: “I don’t think my grandson is malicious. At the worst a teenage prank. Nonetheless, I will apologize to them if they did not play a prank and hide those things.”
Husband: “Yeah uhm I think I said 3 times in that long text that they didn’t do it. and again I’m not really trying to have a discussion about it.”
MIL: “No more discussion. I will apologize to them. So will dad if you like. It will not be mentioned again.
This is so puzzling to me because our family has always been full of love.
And forgiveness.”
I then broke NC to text MIL, FIL, and my husband in a group text:
“You both repeatedly accused H of both stealing and lying about it, over a period of of a full week, for something he and his father over and over again told you he absolutely didn’t do.
That is not loving or forgiving. You failed to give H the respect, trust, and love that he deserves. Even if you believed he did it, you should have respected their father enough to handle it as their parent, and let it go.
Trusted adults accusing a child of doing something that they didn’t do, and refusing to believe them when they tell you they didn’t do it, is, in fact, damaging and extremely hurtful.
This is the first AND LAST time that you will EVER target any of our kids with your verbal abuse. I will not permit anyone to harm our kids.
The instant my husband and I together decide that you are not a positive influence in our kids’ lives is the moment you will not see them again, at least not as underage children.
Our #1 priority is to protect and defend our kids. We will not have them bullied by anyone, family or not!
Thanks in advance for choosing to be civilized, kind, and respectful adults, going forward.
Please also do not text any of our kids unless it is 100% positive content, or you will be blocked from their phones.”
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u/Strange-Report-9249 1d ago
This is the last thing I wanna say. Based on your responses you’re not truly grasping how messed up your situation is. Your DH is failing you and the kids. Your in laws are abusive and awful. You’re also failing yourself and your kids
Think about what you just typed here.
You leave YOUR OWN home to go stay at a hotel because it triggers them to literally abuse you if you’re there. Instead of just not having these people at your home you literally spend money and stay elsewhere. Does that sound logical to you?
They were cruel to your son and sent him an abusive message, yet neither you nor your husband stood up for your son to protect him? Neither of you called them and told them to never contact your son again? You’re literally showing your son that yall won’t protect him from people. You’re allowing them back into your home after what they did and showing him that his feelings/trauma doesn’t matter.
Your DH is not a good husband or father. He doesn’t protect you or the kids. He protects his own feelings by leaving the situations when they occur. He continues to allow these people in the home knowing for a fact that they will be abuse to you (his wife) and that you’ll feel forced to stay at a hotel. Does that sound like a good husband to you?
You really need to sit and reflect on what kinda dynamic y’all got going on because none of it is healthy.
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u/Holiday-Beyond-2843 1d ago
I appreciate your thoughts. Regarding #2, 13yo is a weird borderline age where we feel hesitant to protect him in the same way we would a younger child. Then again, H is a sweet and particularly sensitive kid, so maybe you’re right. My husband did offer to text or call his mom to tell her (again) to cut it out, but H didn’t want him to do that. We involved H about how to respond more than we would have for a younger kid.
I’m bending over backwards entirely by my own choice to help my husband and the kids have a mostly-okay relationship with MIL and FIL. My motive is that their relationship does, in fact, seem to be mostly okay. The only reason my husband is alright with the situation is bc I keep telling him that it’s what I want, and he knows I mean it.
When I ask each kid about their relationship with MIL and FIL, they tell me that it’s pretty good, that they enjoy spending time with them. I trust the kids to be honest about that.
I do have mixed feelings, though. It’s not an easy situation.
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u/Both_Pound6814 1d ago
None of what you described was ok whatsoever. They would never see my kids again if they EVER acted like this. He’s 13, so you don’t ask him, you just handle it. He’s a kid who’s being abused by his grandparents and he doesn’t know what to do. He’s probably even possibly partially blamed himself. Since he’s a child, you’re the one who’s also teaching him boundaries. Unfortunately, your husband has awful boundaries with his parents, and so it’s up to you. Please don’t explain away toxic behaviors, instead say it wasn’t ok and isn’t his fault, and give him ideas of how he should handle it which you partially did which was good. But you should also show him/demonstrate good boundaries on your end which doesn’t include going to a hotel because IL’s invited themselves to your thanksgiving despite you being no contact. Nope! Good boundary is to tell them no, have thanksgiving with your family, and husband can bring leftovers to them if he wants to. Don’t set yourself on fire for your abusers. They don’t deserve it. You should also make your home the one place they are never allowed to come. So, if husband wants to see them, he can go to them or a restaurant, park, etc.
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u/Lanfeare 1d ago
There are situations - serious situations - when we should not ask our children what should be done. It puts the responsibility on them when it is us who should make the decision - as uncomfortable as it is. Sometimes we need to take the steer, even with teenagers.
Imagine he had a bully at school and started having serious mental health issues. At first you may discuss it with your child, but there can come a moment when you have to take action and decide to contact the police, change the school, raise the issue with the school, maybe even place your child in a safe mental health institution.
The child would most probably be adamant that you not do any of those things - it is a typical mechanism of victims.
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u/Holiday-Beyond-2843 1d ago edited 1d ago
I just texted my husband:
“I think your parents should apologize to H for falsely accusing him of taking things if they want to come for Thanksgiving. Or at the very least promise not to bring it up again with him or in front of him.
Also, if they ever do anything like that to any of the kids again, I want you to remove yourself and all the kids from the situation until your parents promise to permanently drop it. The only reason I encourage you & the kids to continue to have a relationship with your parents is bc it seems like a mostly okay one. But I’m not okay with any of the kids being bullied, and if they are, I want you to immediately and completely stop it.“
Thx again for the input. Maybe I do need to be more proactive about protecting the kids. I do have a lot of bad feelings about MIL and FIL, and years and years of trying hard not to let those cloud my judgment or poison the well maybe pushed me too far in the other direction.
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u/Strange-Report-9249 1d ago
It’s good that you’re recognizing that you’re going too far in the other direction. I think you just really need to sit and think about this whole relationship with the in laws.
Here is what I tell my husband.
“Just because you’re comfortable sitting in discomfort doesn’t mean everyone else is and really you shouldn’t be either”
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u/greyphoenix00 1d ago
I think this text is a step in the right direction. It is hard to take a step back and see the long patterns for what they are. My hunch is the ILs will brush off the request for an apology because they were kidding or you’re “overreacting”. Since you’ve been working hard to get maintain this relationship and bend over backwards, it will be a shift in the whole system to stand up for yourself and your children.
Dont be surprised if they lose their shit and blow your reasonable expectations out of proportion. They may threaten to ruin holidays or guilt trip if you stand firm.
You should STAND FIRM. I’ve blown up my IL dynamics over the past 2 years and I’m so glad I did. It’s been very painful and my husband and I had to do marital therapy but I could not allow myself or my children to be manipulated any longer. I asked for recognition and apology about something my MIL “didn’t mean and texted when she was drinking as an emotional outburst” about me and my mother and FIL massively enabled her by apologizing on her behalf and saying it was “just” an emotional outburst we have to overlook, and MIL kept getting things wrong in the conversation that showed her actual delusions about me being so deeply seated in her mind.
All that said, living spending less energy on them has been amazing. They actually just visited for 18 hours on the way across the country and it was… fine, actually. And I felt comfortable saying yes or no to things according to what I actually thought and felt and my kids enjoyed seeing them because MIL was very clearly on her best behavior.
So honestly I anticipate a blowup if you stick to your guns. Don’t be surprised!!! But stay strong. It will be better for you and your kids in the long run.
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u/MeanTemperature1267 1d ago
Allowing them to invite themselves over for Thanksgiving while you leave the home is called: being a pushover.
Allowing them access to your children after this incident, wherein they did not apologize for their behavior, and hoping they "won't mention it" is called: being a pushover (and a rug-sweeper; let's all just pretend Grampy and Grammy aren't maliciously emotionally abusive liars).
It's great that your kids can bail whenever they want to, but in their own house? They shouldn't have to. It's the guests who should have to leave if theyr'e behaving poorly.
And, respectfully, fuck your husband's feelings. He doesn't care about yours or your kids; won't someone in this home protect them from their grandparents' emotional abuse? He failed H by not packing the kids up and leaving, and telling his parents that they aren't allowed to treat his family in this manner, and that they won't be seeing the kids until they apologize and change their behavior. And no, getting grumpy and leaving the dinner table is NOT it. At all.
All of this leaving the house when they visit/allowing your kids to have safe spaces, so on and so forth...it sounds great on the surface, but you're punishing everyone except the assholes in this situation. You're showing your kids how to be doormats instead of how to take the trash out -- and keep it out, if it doesn't reform itself.
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u/CornerAffectionate24 1d ago
This, THIS IS THE ONLY WAY! Your husband should have loaded the car and kids and got the hell out of Ma and PA Kettles hell house. Those people are not grandparents, mil texting your son that it would mean a lot to fil if you would apologize. After that text, both of them should have been blocked.
Those people would not be at MY home for a holiday while I was held up at the Motel 6. No way. You should not have to celebrate a holiday on a different day to accommodate these abusers.
Your kids could go no contact with you and their dad for putting up with the trauma from these people. Wth ma'am. This would give me so much anxiety.
Please for the sake of your kids, avoid these awful people.
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u/Holiday-Beyond-2843 1d ago
He texted his parents, I updated the post. Thanks everyone for thoughts, it did give us the push we needed to be more proactive about this.
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u/DesperateOne416 1d ago
They abused your kid. Why are they allowed in your home? Why are they allowed in the lives of your children?
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u/flirwawel 1d ago
I still don't get why would they be allowed in your house if they don't promise it. And why not kick them out if they don't follow through.
Actually I don't get why you have to leave your house at all, but that's a different topic.
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u/Whyis_skyblue_007 1d ago
Jesus Christ why would you subject your family to such appalling monsters? Be done with them now otherwise you and hubby are enablers.
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u/Holiday-Beyond-2843 1d ago
MIL and FIL are usually loving towards the kids. The youngest (7) gets really excited to see them, and she likes to call MIL on the phone just to talk about her outfits and dolls. Fun things often happen during the visits, since the visits are so rare, so the older kids still overall enjoy them. We would never force any of the kids to see them, though.
I believe MIL and FIL do love the kids and my husband, they just also have mental health issues that prevent them from behaving like civilized adults.
A big reason I’m not around for the visits is bc I’m a major trigger: they are guaranteed to become angry, unreasonable, paranoid, and verbally abuse me at some point if I’m present. Which will prompt my husband to stand up for me, or maybe we’ll leave early, but overall it will definitely end in an argument. If I’m not around, that bad behavior is much less likely. They will still say or do something that gets under my husband’s skin, but the interaction will be less heated.
As I see it, I’m giving my husband and kids the gift of a semi-okay relationship with his parents and the kids’ grandparents. They have a mostly- or at least somewhat-positive relationship this way. The kids would not enjoy the visits if it involved their grandparents insulting or yelling at me every time.
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u/Whyis_skyblue_007 1d ago
There you are,they have mental health problems so keep the kids away from them before they turn violent.You are supposed to be the protectors of your kids ffs.
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u/moodyinam 1d ago
You are doing what is right for you even if others don't agree with you. Hopefully, ALL your kids know they are allowed to escape to their rooms or call you to come get them if grandparents don't treat them well.
Any reason why they singled out 13 year old H? My fantasy is that if H is with you they misplace some of their belongings and have no one to blame but themselves.
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u/Holiday-Beyond-2843 1d ago
Thanks. Surprised that almost everyone here disagrees so strongly with how we have chosen to handle the situation.
I am doing my best to make sure all the kids feel heard, protected, and supported, aren't ever left alone with MIL or FIL, and always have the choice whether or not to see them. Since directly targeting one of the kids happened only this one time, to me it makes sense to warn MIL and FIL it absolutely can’t happen again, and then play it by ear a little bit. If it ever recurs, we’ll def take a more hardline stance.
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u/flytingnotfighting 1d ago
Why do you vacate your life for them to decide to come to YOUR home? No, girl...just NO.
Your husband LEFT THE TABLE to cool off, leaving his kid there, but hubby needed to deal with his big feelings?
You're doing yourself and your kids a disservice.
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u/Strange-Report-9249 1d ago
Yup. Like leaving your own home just so these people don’t abuse you is just so pathetic to me.
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u/Holiday-Beyond-2843 1d ago
Highly trusted and beloved BIL was still at the table, and husband knew his parents would take his words more seriously and likely drop it if he left. I do agree though that leaving the kids with them wasn’t the ideal move.
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u/flytingnotfighting 1d ago
Im sorry, but very trusted bil could have also opened his mouth. These. Are. Children.
You and your husband are full of not dealing with it yourselves but leaving your kids to do it. That's fucked, you see that, right?
Your kid told you how it made him feel and you are like "they love you".
Dude.
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u/flytingnotfighting 1d ago
I just read your edit
GIRL, no. Are you even for real? You're not assuring their safety at all.
Eta Also inviting your kid to the hotel? How about tell them No. nooooooo
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u/Strange-Report-9249 1d ago
Don’t let them around your children anymore. You’re doing damage to your 13yo son by allowing these people in his home after the way they treated him. You’re showing him that you won’t fully protect him and that those people are more important.
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u/Soregular 1d ago
I agree with this. Your 13 year old son has been hurt and is now being asked to ignore his feelings completely so that MIL and FIL don't have to apologize. What? They have mistreated you so that you are NC and now they have a new victim. Even if you asked him about it and he said to "let it go" is it because he KNOWS you and your husband won't stand up for him? Is it because he KNOWS that MIL and FIL are allowed to abuse him and he should just shut up and take it, sweep it under the rug and swallow his feelings? Come on girl...get your MOMA BEAR out. You know what you have to do.
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u/Holiday-Beyond-2843 1d ago
I will invite him to join me at the hotel. It will be his choice either way, without judgment or pressure from us.
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u/Strange-Report-9249 1d ago
That’s a good option. You also need to talk to him about how he really feels about them. But you’re also doing way too much for these people. Leaving your own home when they come over? Why isn’t your husband stepping up and protecting his family?
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u/Holiday-Beyond-2843 1d ago
The only reason this situation works is bc it’s fully my choice. When they invited themselves for the holiday, husband and I discussed how we wanted to handle it. He very much cared about my opinion and feelings.
If I told my husband I needed more from him, I know with certainty he would do more. If I told him to tell them they couldn’t come, he would have done that.
Ultimately, he trusts me to tell him what I want: and what I truly want is for him and the kids to have a mostly-okay relationship with my MIL and FIL. I want that because I think it’s best for him and the kids. I also prefer for him and the kids (as they get older) to have the autonomy to make their own decisions.
It really helps that we have been married for ~20 years now, both very secure in our relationship, absolute trust, great communication. I know how much he and the kids adore me, they would never let anyone bad-mouth me when I’m not there. Whatever MIL and FIL do or say, ultimately they are only hurting themselves. Earlier on, when we were younger, I would not have been okay with this - but now I am. :)
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u/Ok-Addendum-9420 1d ago
What on earth did I just read?! They DO NOT DESERVE an okay relationship with your kids. How do you not see this?! They have changed their punching bag from you to your 13 year old——-and possibly your other kids. You are being myopic: They are a BAD influence on your children, PERIOD, and your children would be better off without them. SAVE YOUR KIDS.
They are also modeling their horrific behavior to your children——-have you thought about that?They’re getting away with treating you, and now other family members, atrociously yet still get to see their GC. AND never have to apologize for their abusive behavior AND invite themselves to your home for a holiday AND essentially throw you out of your own house at the same time.
Do you WANT your children to act like your ILs some day? Of course you don’t, so remove their toxic presence. If you can’t stand up for yourself, stand up for your kids. Tell the ILs to not come for Thanksgiving, that they most assuredly are not welcome and never will be, that they have done enough damage, and you will not be leaving it on their account. Your home is supposed to the safe space for you and your kids and not a place for monsters like them.
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u/Holiday-Beyond-2843 1d ago
I don’t think the kids will be much influenced by people they only see twice a year, and 95% of the time MIL and FIL behave themselves. They’ve now been warned. If they ever target any of the kids again, we’ll rethink our approach.
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u/Lanfeare 1d ago edited 1d ago
OP, I think you are really missing the fact how this kind of dynamic is damaging and questionable. I don’t understand how can you think that moving out from the house for the weekend and leaving your kids and your husband for Thanksgiving is a good idea. With people who you went NC with. With people who accused your children of STEALING. Why your children are forced to spend Thanksgiving without their mother? Without the nuclear family being together?
Allowing them and your husband to have a relationship with their grandparents is ok, but it should mean you not preventing them to visit them or meeting them somewhere. Not letting them come to your house, forcing you out. What kind of message that sends to your children?
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u/Dinoprincess23 1d ago
Fuck no, they've turned on your child. Your husband didnt stand up for him and let it continue to the point of being accused 3 times. He (or you actually) should have rang his parents as soon as they text your son demanding an apology and ripped them a new asshole. You dont get to be no contact and allow them to bully your children. They definitely should not be allowed near the kids or to contact them. I promise you, children remember when their parents stand up for them or let them be bullied. Telling him his grandparents love him when the treated him like shit is excusing abusive behind and framing it as love. What will happen in the future if he finds himself in an abusive relationship where someone is treating him the same way?
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u/Both_Pound6814 1d ago
Right?! Excusing away abuse is not something to teach your child. Placing strong boundaries, and going no contact with abusive grandparents is something to teach the kids.
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u/citrusbook 1d ago
Here after all of the edits, so all I will say is that you should cancel Thanksgiving. Husband needs to tell them they’re not invited and you were going to do a family holiday as a nuclear family. Their behavior doesn’t just warrant a talking to, it warrants action.
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u/ShoeSoggy9123 1d ago
'We are not such pushovers now.' Yeah, you just let them invite themselfves over for Thanksgiving wherein YOU are going to vacate your home. You are also teaching your children it is OK to be abused by grandparents. And make no mistake about it. What your IL's are doing is emotional abuse.
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u/Disastrous-Panda5530 1d ago
I’m sorry but why are you letting them invites themselves over? In no way shape or form would I be leaving MY house because they invited themselves. Had they done this to one of my kids they wouldn’t be welcomed in my home period. You are letting them walk all over you by inviting themselves over and leaving your home.
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u/JeanCerise 1d ago
"Now they have invited themselves for Thanksgiving"
Huh? How does that happen? You can't tell them no? Instead you have to physically leave your home? That sounds ridiculous. Just you or your entire immediate family?
Let me get this straight. They will travel, go to a hotel. On Thursday, they'll leave their hotel and ring the doorbell to your house at any random time they decide, expecting you to serve them a meal? And no one will be there? I don't understand this at all.
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u/Holiday-Beyond-2843 1d ago
They plan to hang out with my husband and kids all day Thursday and Friday. My husband is a great cook, for the Thursday Thanksgiving. He and kids will basically have two Thanksgivings, one with his parents, and one with me.
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u/ChampionshipSad1586 1d ago
Why the hell would you allow ppl like this to invite themselves? They are playing mind games with your child.
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u/jojanetulips 1d ago
I don't understand how you're going to allow them to be around your children after they treated your son that way. And it shouldn't really be up to your son to respond to that awful message they sent him. You and your husband should be stepping up and defending and protecting him. I can't imagine not ripping into anyone who treated my kids that way, no contact would not matter in that situation.
Crappy in-laws can be tricky but the kids are being mistreated and you're staying in a hotel so they can visit is insane to me.
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u/greyphoenix00 1d ago
Don’t let them around your children. This is emotional abuse. If they come, take your kids to the hotel with you.
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u/Jethrothemutant 1d ago
No excuses they are just HORRIBLE people-why subject you and your family to this?
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u/Both_Pound6814 1d ago
Excuse me, what?! YOU’RE staying in a hotel while THEY’RE going to your thanksgiving that they invited themselves too?!?!?! Y’all can say no. Don’t let them come to thanksgiving. OP, YOU have thanksgiving with your family. If husband wants to have thanksgiving with his parents, then he can go to THEIR house. Why are both you and husband automatically letting them have their way when they want something? Please put up boundaries!! If you let this happen, then you are part of the problem too and not just your husband.
Also, please stop rationalizing IL’s toxicity and abuse to your kids. After how they treated H, they wouldn’t be allowed around my kids. It’s showing their willingness to abuse your children, and this isn’t ok. If it happens to ONE of my kids, NONE of my kids are around them anymore since it’s unacceptable. Your kids are also old enough to know that IL’s aren’t illogical because of age, so you and husband should probably apologize because they definitely know this pattern of behavior is normal for IL’s and would have seen how IL’s treat you. You teach people how to treat you. Please show your children this treatment is unacceptable no matter who the person is to them. Also, block their numbers on your kid’s phones.
Finally, if your husband no longer wants to see his parents, then he does need to go no contact. He needs to stop using the family he created as a meat shield. They don’t get the privilege of visiting with you and the kids any longer due to their behavior, and he should tell them that they will no longer be able to see his kids.
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u/Mirkwoodsqueen 1d ago
"Now they have invited themselves for Thanksgiving". Hard no.
And they need to apologize to your son.
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u/Hungry-Bluebird2793 1d ago
They invited themselves to thanksgiving and you’re having to go to a hotel because of it? They treated your kid like crap and both of you are still allowing them to be over? Your husband is an ass for not standing up to them and leaving and both of you are failing to protect your kid. This is absurd
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u/boundaries4546 1d ago
Why aren’t ILS staying at a hotel?? It is like they are getting rewarded for their bad behavior.
They should HAVE to apologize to the 13yo for falsely accusing him before thanksgiving.
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u/DarJinZen7 1d ago edited 1d ago
The odds of MIL or FIL not bringing it up even if they promise, is slim to none. In their minds H is a thief. A thief who laughs at them. Your husband insisting he's not won't change that. He's H's father, he's blindly defending him in their eyes and won't see the truth. Or is letting him get away with it because something something too soft.
Honestly, they sound awful. But your son seems to genuinely want to see them. I wouldn't trust them, not even a little. If he goes his Dad should be ready to leave immediately.
I'm shocked your family goes through this, even twice a year. They're exhausting and not very nice people.
I just read your other post and Im stunned any of you have any contact with those atrocious people. The years of abuse you went through is heartbreaking.
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u/HMSWarspite03 1d ago
Fuck that, don't let those lunatics anywhere near your children, they are old enough to know you are running away and leaving them with these people, they will remember and you will lose out.
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u/Soregular 1d ago
Ya...the "mostly ok" relationship is you looking at it and just hoping they won't say or do anything hurtful to your children? Really? Don't let them BE around your children or try to mold or shape your children into being doormats for them. You do this by not letting them be around your children.
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u/loricomments 1d ago
You husband needs to come to his senses and protect your children from them. Please keep your children away from them. No 13yo is prepared to be around adults that are falsely accusing them of being a thief, especially not ones they should be able to trust without a thought. They should join you in NC. Unless and until they can make a genuine apology to him at bare minimum, you should protect them from their abuse.
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u/mahfrogs 1d ago
Take all the kids with you and leave your husband to deal with his parents. They need to learn the consequences of their behavior. At least with the kids not around they can’t choose one to be the target of their frustrations.
This behavior would be the knell of the end of a relationship with the whole family for me. It’s my home and my kids and if there is no respect then they don’t need to be there. EVER.
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u/Glinda-The-Witch 1d ago
Wow, your in-laws are really a piece of work. Why not insist they stay at a VRBO where your husband can go visit them. Give the children the option of going to visit them. That way neither you nor your children need to leave your home.
Since your husband feels, his parents are not suffering the effects of aging, stop making excuses for their behavior. Now would be a great time for him to sit down and explain to the children that some people are just not nice people, and that sometimes the best way to deal with that is to put distance between you and the person who causing you undue stress. Make it clear that they have the right to opt out of visiting the same as their mother does .
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u/AutoRedux 1d ago
So why are you allowing this pattern of behavior to continue?
Stop lying to your kid and cut the in laws out of their lives if they're this horrible.
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u/CaraCat60 1d ago
Why would you allow these people to treat your son this way? You continually under reacted and allowed them to abuse your son. Instead of leaving YOUR home so they can visit, tell them they are not welcome until THEY apologize to your son and their behavior changes. It’s ridiculous you haven’t done more to protect your son.
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u/ExcellentCold7354 1d ago
For real. Girl, what are you doing? This isn't your son's responsibility. He's a child. You are underreacting and continuing to expose your kids to abusive behavior. There comes a point where inaction turns into enabling. You are teaching your kids to run away instead of standing up and saying NO. Your inlaws shouldn't be invited at all, less so if it means you have to leave your own house.
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u/BreeLenny 1d ago
So just to clarify, instead of telling H the truth that his grandparents are horrible people to accuse him like that, you and your husband decided to lie him and blame your in-laws’ age? And now you’re allowing them to come into your home, which should be H’s safe place, and they have the opportunity to treat him that way again?
Don’t be surprised if H goes NC with you and your husband when he’s older.
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u/Holiday-Beyond-2843 1d ago
H def knows we think their behavior is way out of line. Since this is the first time they have directly targeted any of the kids, I think we were all caught a bit flat-footed. Really hoping this is not only the first time, but the last and only time. Since that part is different and new, it really could be something else going on, at least something age-related if not dementia. We were thinking it through with H and trying to process it, not trying to be dishonest with him.
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u/Responsible-Yam-2773 1d ago edited 1d ago
Hi OP, I can tell that you’re having a hard time, both with this situation and with the response and feedback you’re getting here.
Maybe it would be helpful to reframe things a little bit, with compassion. Fundamentally, I think you’ve completely gaslit yourself into thinking this entire dynamic with your husband and your in-laws is okay; that you’re being the better person, that you can’t be blamed by the family because you bend over backwards and twist yourself in knots to facilitate a “mostly-okay” “sometimes positive” relationship between them and your kids.
Please try to take a step back and understand what we’re all saying: these are terrible people. These people are so terrible that you are voluntarily leaving your home and your family on Thanksgiving to avoid seeing them; you’re doing that because they will behave so very badly around you. This is really insane. I think deep down you know that.
I can tell that you’re trying to do what you think is best for your kids, but I really want to emphasize (and I say this from experience, as the kid) that you’re abandoning them in this situation. Asking the kids what they want? I don’t care if they are 7 or 18, that’s not something they can possibly be emotionally equipped to answer. It’s unfair, to all of you. Your in-laws obsession with accusing someone of STEALING (which your kid didn’t do, but even if he had, this is aggressive and uncalled for) and refusal to let it go speaks volumes about the kind of unstable, dangerous personalities they are.
Quite frankly, your MIL texting H and asking him to apologize to FIL for something he didn’t do would have been the last straw for me. This is beyond manipulative, of a child! For what? To make a point? To assert their dominance over him? To soothe their embarrassment about misplacing their things? It’s bad. Seriously, OP, it’s really bad.
These are not safe, not kind, not reasonable, not additive people. They don’t deserve any place in any of your lives. I think this community feels really strongly that if someone is so unsafe and unpleasant that I cannot be in contact with them, it’s extremely unlikely they are okay people to have around my children.
Please, please try to go to therapy - you individually, your husband, and together. I’m concerned for you that you think this is a reasonable weight for you to carry. It’s been said here already but if you can’t set boundaries and draw red lines and protect yourself, at least do it for your children.
I really hope you’ll reconsider Thanksgiving and at a minimum, have the entire family take a break from them for 6 months. See how much better everyone feels. Be strong!
ETA: I read your previous post. What you’ve endured is horrifying. As you said yourself: “Life is too short to be around people who are intentionally cruel, consistently and unapologetically.” OP, please have the same standards for your children. My mother falls in the same camp as your MIL and it messes you up for life. Please don’t subject your family to them any longer!
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u/BoozeAndHotpants 1d ago
Are you giving your kids the choice not to see them if they aren’t comfortable with it or are they being guilted into seeing them? Is this the kid’s choice to participate?
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u/jennsb2 1d ago
They owe him an apology or they don’t get to visit your home - this is so ridiculously simple - he was accused several times of stealing - he didn’t commit this crime , and then they continued to harass your son once he was home. Absolutely. The. F$&k. Not.
You’re both still being pushovers and your son deserves to know that you’ll stand up for him to anyone. He’s so upset about it he’s leaving his home to avoid them. That’s not love.
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u/madempress 1d ago
I totally get why you want to try to preserve the relationship if 'it feels safe' for your kids.
I do implore you to still PULL BACK more - the stress to your husband and the emotional damage their handling, persistence, and accusations of theft can still impact your children, even if they say they want to keep seeing grandparents.
If the relationship always felt good, their accusation and demanding of an apology and guilt tripping/gaslighting can do more harm than it might of if the grandparents were always off, because the child isn't used to it and has more reason to belive there is truth to it. Debriefing the child can help, but saying it was 'age' instead of the reality - MIL and FIL had no grounds and it wasnt okay and it wasn't justified for the sake of preserving the relationship - is also harmful, as it is under false pretenses.
Problems:
The ongoing relationship with in-laws is pushing you out of family holidays. That is NOT OKAY. Husband and kids can visit them without you on regular weekends, but they should never be allowed to displace you and they should DEFINITELY never displace a child, and never once a holiday like Thanksgiving or Xmas. Do not let them invite themselves. Do not let them disrupt you or your child's safe place. That teaches your child that the safety of their home is conditional and that it is okay to be pushed out by people who don"t live there.
Not saying it teaches them to let squatters in, but it does not teach them how to set healthy boundaries like "please stay out of my bedroom" to roommates or "I would rather your parents stay in an rental because they are terrible houseguests and I can't relax." You let yourself be pushed out because your in laws are pushy and make you miserable, that is the norm you set for your kids - to be pushover who do not put themselves first even at the price of sleeping in their own bed.
Please please please rethink this. If you and your husband are walking on eggshells for a houseguest, that guest should not be allowed to stay overnight. A few hours for dinner is more "sometimes we just have to push through things."
You need to address the severity of the in-laws actions here before resuming any normalcy. They accused a child of theft and are demanding an apology. They sound like people who will bring that up constantly if allowed to "remember that time you stole our stuff and hid it?" "Did you steal grandmas glasses again?", and your son should not have to hear that at all. It WILL get to him.
Don't fucking let these people invite themselves to shit. You and your husband do not like them or trust them. They don't get to have that type of relationship with you where they can propose times and places. I am mad at how casually you say 'they invited themselves so I am just going to leave my own home and skip a family holiday and my son can also not sleep in his own bed if he doesn't want to stay with them." You and he deserve to sleep in your own home, in your own bed, to have dinner with your husband and other child. Stand up for yourself. Live the better life you deserve. Get mad that leaving your own home was your solution.
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u/Tudorprincess1 1d ago
why in the world are you allowing them to drive you out of your own house. they invite themselves- you say No you are not coming. they’re treating your kids badly - why in the world would you still allow then around your children- are you and DH giving your kids up as sacrifice to keep DHs mommy and daddy happy. Or are you & DH using your kids as meat shields. Your supposed to protect your children. Please do better.
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u/Holiday-Beyond-2843 1d ago
I would never have my kids around them if I didn’t honestly believe it was in my kids’ best interest.
The grandkid-grandparent relationship has been positive up until this, other than the kids witnessing arguments between their father and his parents, and knowing their mother is NC.
It seems unreasonable to completely and unilaterally (as parents) end that relationship bc of this one-time issue.
If something like this ever happens again, though, we will take a more hardline stance.
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u/jennsb2 1d ago
It’s a big one time issue - nobody said you have to unilaterally end the relationship, you’re setting a boundary that they apologize sincerely before they are allowed to stay in your home. Their reaction to that boundary will show you what you need to know. Your son will remember your spine or lack thereof for the rest of his life.
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u/RI-Transplant 1d ago
Usually I extend the in-laws some grace, I don’t even comment much because they usually get removed, but yours truly suck. I would never expect H to visit with them again. I wouldn’t even let them in my house after those accusations. And if they do come I would accuse them of stealing my stuff.
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u/Careless-Bit8329 1d ago
I can’t wrap my head around you’re spending thanksgiving by yourself in a hotel room. Why don’t they spend Saturday with your kids? You should spend thanksgiving with your family.
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u/Crazyspitz 1d ago
So...13yo has learned that family can mentally and emotionally abuse him, and there will be no consequences. I can't fathom allowing these monsters anywhere near my children. The kids also get to learn that terrible people can come into your house as guests and make you leave your own home. This all just absolutely stinks of "BuT theY'rE Faaammmilyyyy."
I'm sorry for being so harsh, but do better. Is this what you want to teach your kids?
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u/madgeystardust 1d ago
You two are still actually pushovers…
You have work to do to protect your kids from these people.
You run away and leave your kids to fend for themselves pretty much as your DuH yelling at them is pointless - what hey actually need are consequences.
Do better. Your kids deserve that from you.
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u/HelloThere4123 1d ago
This is the right answer. Sorry, OP but you leaving your kids in that situation when you know the grandparents are abusive is not right. I’m not suggesting you change your plans to not see them, but I wouldn’t allow that behavior around my kids at all. And I wouldn’t leave my house and rearrange my holiday plans either. If hubby wants to spend the holiday with them so bad he can do it elsewhere and by himself.
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u/madgeystardust 1d ago
This OP.
If they’re too toxic for you, they’re too toxic for your kids - as they’ve proven right here.
The fact you asked your son instead of telling him he didn’t have to see them…
…why put that on him?
Then your husband tells them, ‘if they’re still think he hid their stuff maliciously - then that’s ok..’
Like really?! Is this what sticking up for your kids looks like to you?
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u/Electronic-Value-662 1d ago
Please don’t allow your son to make this decision. They are harmful to him. You and your child need to be NC. Your husband also needs to put his FAMILY first and tell his parents they are unequivocal NOT invited to thanksgiving due to their poor choices. Your husband needs to prioritize his real family and spend the holiday with you. Absolutely wild he would be ok with you in a hotel alone for a holiday while he shares time with people who have been harmful to you and your son. Your in-laws are horrible but it also sounds like your husband is JN
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1d ago
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u/Stock-Mountain-6063 1d ago
You shouldn't have to be at a hotel, your husband should just see his parents at a restaurant. And your children should have the option if they want to go or not
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u/Knittingfairy09113 1d ago
Does H have any interest in seeing the ILs at Thanksgiving? What is the game plan if he decides he doesn't want to join in?
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u/Knittingfairy09113 1d ago
Does H have any interest in seeing the ILs at Thanksgiving? What is the game plan if he decides he doesn't want to join in?
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u/den-of-corruption 1d ago
first, good on you and SIL for your solidarity against these fools. love a family that doesn't let poison be poured in their ears.
looks like you're getting plenty of criticism over the thanksgiving situation. i understand how these things happen but i would suggest it shouldn't happen in the future. first, they're inviting themselves over and that's a hard 'no'. however, if they deal with paranoia then every interaction with them is also going to give them more data for the stories they tell themselves. including who's there and who isn't.
i used to work in a shelter for severely mentally ill people and quickly learned that keeping it simple is A) strategic but B) drastically reduces the sources of anxiety that generate paranoia. in my case it was about creating safety for my residents so they weren't afraid but here it's about safety for everyone involved.
i wish you luck! remember: it may not be too late to get out of the thanksgiving situation. if it is too late, keep it simple.
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u/fryingthecat66 1d ago
Oh I can't wait for the update on Thanksgiving
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u/mightasedthat 1d ago
I am very much hoping for an update this week that husbands text hurt their feelings and they will not be coming for thanksgiving. 🙏
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u/Upset-Ad3509 1d ago
Husband says that they seem mentally still okay? Misplacing items, not seeing them in plain sight, then accusing your child repeatedly of stealing those items is NOT mentally ok. It is an early sign of dementia! Your children should not be allowed around them in their home, especially the 13yo since they have fixated on him. This can accelerate to quite harmful extremes - they can blame him for serious behaviors that could get him in legal trouble. For example blaming him for stealing and using their credit card when they order something that they forgot about. Husband needs to read up on early signs of dementia and be on the watch for those signs. Anxiety, losing things, irrational anger can all be part of it, as can paranoia. Protect your children!
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u/Holiday-Beyond-2843 1d ago
They have had those symptoms the whole time I’ve known them, so I honestly don’t think it’s early dementia. Unsure what it is. They act relatively normal 95% of the time, though - I only vent about the deviations.
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u/Upset-Ad3509 1d ago
I would still keep your children away from their home and closely monitor them. Look for things like long expired foods, decrease in hygiene and housekeeping, etc. And keep being a good support to your kids.
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u/Holiday-Beyond-2843 1d ago
They live far away from us, thank goodness, so not in a position to keep close tabs on them.
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1d ago
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u/TalkieTina 1d ago
What does being a boomer have to do with it?
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u/Holiday-Beyond-2843 1d ago
Yes, that’s why I asked my husband if they seemed mentally okay! He said they did. For decades they have falsely accused people of things, so unfortunately this is most likely just their usual selves.
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u/Etoilebleuetoile 1d ago
So chances are it’s not going to stop if it’s been happening for years and you’re going to continue to let them accuse your kids of things they did not do.
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u/Holiday-Beyond-2843 1d ago
High elevation up in the mountains at high noon meant extra strong sunlight, newborns have particularly thin and delicate skin, and I had a (correct) Mama-spidey instinct about it.
It was their first grandchild, so it was repeated photo sessions in different locations. You’re right that if it was just for a few seconds for a few photos, it would have been fine. That isn’t what they did, though.
I think it was overzealous and excited first grandparents and not a power play, but either way they should have respected my objection (as mom) after the first few minutes of exposure.
In that particular instance, my husband understandably didn’t think our baby would get sun-burned, so he didn’t really have my back. He felt bad afterwards.
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1d ago edited 1d ago
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u/Holiday-Beyond-2843 1d ago
Which part don’t you believe? Feel free to google what I said, instead of being snarky. I just researched why sunburns are more likely at higher elevations, which I know is true from firsthand experience. Apparently the reason is that the atmosphere at higher elevations is thinner, allowing more UV radiation to reach the ground. For every 1,000 feet of elevation gain, UV levels increase by 6-10%. It’s also true that newborns get sunburns more easily than adults, and that more UV rays reach the ground at high noon than at 3pm or 9am (less atmosphere to travel through in order to reach your skin).
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