r/Kamloops • u/Physical-Village2111 • Apr 26 '25

Politics Observation 48 hours before election day

Is it just me or others have notice the trend that all the social media (including redditt), and all the tv station there is such a big liberal presence and supporting the liberals, but when talking/overhearing conversation in coffee shops, parks, workplaces etc its overwhelming the support for the conservatives.

Feels like there is two reality around me, one that lives in my cell phone screen and the other out and about.

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u/Rosenmops Apr 26 '25

Reddit and the mainstream media are well known to be strongly biased left.

If you want another viewpoint, watch Juno news, moose on the loose, etc on YouTube.

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u/Ham__Kitten Apr 26 '25

The mainstream media is overwhelming owned by a very small handful of centre right capitalists and is not even remotely "left."

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u/nowherelefttodefect Apr 26 '25

Someday you'll learn that "being a rich capitalist" does not mean "right wing".

You're being duped by elites and your ideology has been coopted as a tool of power for themselves.

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u/Ham__Kitten Apr 26 '25

Please explain to me how someone can be a capitalist without subscribing to centre-right or right wing economic principles.

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u/nowherelefttodefect Apr 26 '25

Because political definitions from the late 18th century do not apply to today's ideological landscape, economics, and power structures.

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u/Deep_Imagination3023 Apr 26 '25

Any first year political science major knows capitalism is an inherently right wing ideology

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u/nowherelefttodefect Apr 27 '25

Not really. Any political science major still using the left-right duality has been scammed and should demand a refund from their university.

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u/Deep_Imagination3023 Apr 27 '25

What has given you the impression that the left / right spectrum is obsolete?

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u/nowherelefttodefect Apr 27 '25

You cannot be serious.

But if you are - reality, it's self evident. The spectrum quickly becomes useless the second you start applying more complex ideas to it.

There's like two centuries of literature on this, dude, maybe try something other than Marx or Engels or whatever nonsense you're reading

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u/Deep_Imagination3023 Apr 27 '25

However lacking in complexity it may be it is ubiquitous in any reputable university poli sci curriculum. I think libs just don’t like to acknowledge their conservatism, and vice versa

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u/nowherelefttodefect Apr 28 '25

Just because it's widespread doesn't mean it's useful, or accurate. It's a mind poison.

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u/Ham__Kitten Apr 28 '25

It's nice to see that you're also refusing to elaborate or explain yourself to anyone else who asks and not just me.

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u/nowherelefttodefect Apr 28 '25

I just gave a reason.

The spectrum quickly becomes useless the second you start applying more complex ideas to it.

This is called a reason. Just because I don't hold your hand and spoonfeed you precise examples doesn't mean it isn't a reason.

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u/Ham__Kitten Apr 28 '25

Just because I don't hold your hand and spoonfeed you precise examples doesn't mean it isn't a reason.

No, but because you didn't elaborate and give any examples at all means it's not a reason you can adequately base an argument on. Merely asserting something doesn't make it an argument.

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u/Ham__Kitten Apr 26 '25

That's really not an answer, especially when there very much are right wing and left wing economic policies in place in the world at this very moment. If your position is that there's no such thing as left wing or right wing, fine, but you're alone there. These ideas have modern definitions and they're not solely dependent on the original definitions as you seem to think.

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u/nowherelefttodefect Apr 26 '25

I'm saying it's not as a clear cut as you think, especially since you're probably the type that defines left wing as solely socialist ideologies and that there's never been a "real communist" country.

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u/Ham__Kitten Apr 26 '25

Don't put words in my mouth. If you have to resort to arguing against things you think I'd probably say, you don't have a very strong position.

And yes, political ideologies are not always clear cut. But free market capitalism is a centre-right, neoliberal economic ideology. That's just how it's defined and I am still waiting to hear what about that is incorrect.

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u/nowherelefttodefect Apr 27 '25

I didn't put words in your mouth. I said you're probably the type that says that. Feel free to dispute that.

So where is non-free market government-run capitalism? BC Ferries, or CN, or ICBC? Left wing? See the problem here? You're using outdated and honestly rather foolish terms to try to describe a broad multi-axis spectrum of ideologies.

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u/Ham__Kitten Apr 27 '25

I'm not interested in defending something I didn't say that you decided to inject into the conversation for no reason.

And I'm not sure what you're trying to do with those examples. CN is majority owned by Bill Gates and BC Ferries is entirely managed and operated by the private sector. The only example here that even remotely works is ICBC, which is a vestige of a much older, more regulated system before the neoliberal realignment of the 1980s.

But to go back to what you originally said. I'm curious who these capitalists who you think are left of centre are. Which capitalists are advocating for more regulation, strong unions, worker control of production, a more centrally planned economy, etc? Or do you have a different definition of economic left than everyone else on earth?

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u/nowherelefttodefect Apr 27 '25

Again, I didn't say you said anything. I said you seem like the TYPE to say it. The fact that you're being this obtuse over it makes me think I hit the nail on the head.

I'm not sure what you're trying to do with those examples

That's exactly what I expected from a leftist, so I'll help you understand. I picked these three on purpose because they're three different examples of what people who are ideologically captured call "private".

- CN is majority owned by bill gates

No, it isn't, you are just straight up factually incorrect there. Regardless, yes, it is nominally private. But it's effectively a legal monopoly. Can you start a railroad company and start building tracks on public land? No, you can't. Nobody can do that except CN. CN has no competition, because they are a privatized crown corporation that still has the entire regulatory environment back from when they were not privately owned. This is usually what happens when "privatization" occurs, which is why it's such an unconvincing argument from leftists for anyone that actually understands what a regulatory environment is.

- BC Ferries is entirely managed and operated by the private sector

I'd advise you to do even a cursory reading of how BC Ferries functions. And see above, because it's a similar situation. Although not as bad as rail, because you don't have to build on water to use it, and at the very least companies like Hullo have been able to operate - although they still face major monopolistic hurdles they have to jump over.

- ICBC, which is a vestige of a much older, more regulated system before the neoliberal realignment of the 1980s

They are a legal monopoly. You cannot get insurance through anyone but ICBC in BC. You HAVE to have ICBC insurance.

The reason why you're having such trouble understanding how there can be left wing capitalists, is because you are using the Marxist definition of the left-right spectrum, where capitalism is defined as right wing. This is an incorrect, outdated, and useless definition. Call it "a different definition than everyone else on earth" all you like, you're just straight up wrong there.

- Which capitalists are advocating for more regulation, strong unions, worker control of production, a more centrally planned economy

It's funny you ask - pretty much all of them, actually. Regulations are the primary tool that corporations use to crush their competition. Big business LOVES it when the state puts in a "you must pay us 50 gajillion dollars for a business permit" regulation. Walmart doesn't care about competing with Superstore, they care about competing with small and mid sized business that could become the next Walmart. Hence why they, and every other megacorp, lobbies for MORE regulation, not less. Walmart wants an economy like the Soviet Union where nobody can exist except them and they work hand in hand with the state, except they're nominally private. One corporation, one industry, with the government preventing anyone else from competing. These are the actual regulations that get passed - while naive leftists like you cheer for it because you think all regulations are "no toxic waste in the water" and other childish things.

You're also conflating "capitalists" with "business owners", which I'm sure in your head means "Jeff Bezos".

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u/Ham__Kitten Apr 27 '25 edited Apr 27 '25

No, it isn't, you are just straight up factually incorrect there.

Sorry, I misspoke. He is the largest single shareholder in CN.

But it's effectively a legal monopoly

Okay? What relevance does this have? It is a private company with a monopoly. That doesn't make it somehow not capitalist or not right wing. Monopolies were a common feature of laissez-faire capitalism.

I'd advise you to do even a cursory reading of how BC Ferries functions.

It functions as a private company, entirely run by the private sector. Again, you are not making an argument. You're just saying "no, wrong." If you have an argument to make about why my definition of left and right wing is wrong, just make it and define what those things mean in simple terms instead of talking in circles.

It's funny you ask - pretty much all of them, actually. Regulations are the primary tool that corporations use to crush their competition.

Congratulations, you discovered one of the many contradictions inherent to capitalism. Corporations use regulatory capture to their advantage. They do not advocate for more regulation of their capital or their profits. Now try addressing any of the other things I said. As we all know, Walmart famously loves unions and worker control of production.

Walmart wants an economy like the Soviet Union where nobody can exist except them and they work hand in hand with the state

Sure, like the Soviet Union, except completely different and nearly diametrically opposed, because they're not owned by the state or the workers

except they're nominally private.

No, not nominally private. Just private, because that's what they are.

You're also conflating "capitalists" with "business owners", which I'm sure in your head means "Jeff Bezos".

What do you mean by this? I am saying capitalist means someone who owns means of production and/or controls large amounts of capital, because that's what the term means. When did I say anything about "business owners"? You keep arguing against things I have not said or imagining I have said or would say something you disagree with. Just address what I'm actually saying.

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u/Ham__Kitten Apr 27 '25

Actually, you know what, this is easier. Why don't you just define as simply as possible what you believe a "left wing capitalist" is and name a specific person you think meets that definition. That is much more productive than arguing in circles.

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