r/LeagueOfIreland • u/ScotMcScottyson • 4d ago
Discussion / Question League of Ireland vs. Scottish Premiership
Scottish football fan here. I've always been curious about the LoI, it's been growing a lot in the past few years. Shamrock Rovers and Shelbourne are in the Conference League this season. NIFL sides like Linfield and Larne struggled to get past them. I watched COPA 90's documentary and it intrigued me a lot.
What are the similarities and differences between the League of Ireland and the Scottish Premiership? Do you think the LoI will grow more in the future? Which are the best players?
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u/EdwardBigby Bohemians 4d ago
People treat comparing leagues as some wild hypothetical but when the countries are as similiar as Scotland and Ireland, its really not a complicated formula.
The most important factor is a team's wage budget. Its unromantic but statistically almost always correct. Exact wages can be tough to find but guessed by looking at teams revenues which can also be guessed when you have some idea on TV deals and match attendances.
That's why I wasn't massively surprised Shamrock Rovers beat Santa Clara. A Portuguese side sounds impressive on paper but theres not massive amounts of TV revenue in Portugal outside the top sides and many teams (Santa Clara included) have a significantly lower attendance than Shamrock Rovers so without external investment, it should be expected to be a close game
By the same logic, the SPL has a better TV deal and higher attendances as LOI. The clubs make more money so should be a bit better in general.
To be more romantic though, theres definitely a feel good factor around the LOI. Its been growing massively the past few years. Many clubs are only limited by their stadium size and over time you can expect the league to continue to grow. Its a fun one to watch especially in the summer when most European leagues are off.
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u/flex_tape_salesman League Of Ireland 4d ago
Wages are easy and a decent way of judging it. Problem with it is that it doesn't account for efficiency. Scottish clubs have to pay certain levels of wages based on the sides around them and they don't necessarily get the right players for that.
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u/Infinite_Crow_3706 4d ago
That's why I wasn't massively surprised Shamrock Rovers beat Santa Clara. A Portuguese side sounds impressive on paper but theres not massive amounts of TV revenue in Portugal outside the top sides and many teams (Santa Clara included) have a significantly lower attendance than Shamrock Rovers so without external investment, it should be expected to be a close game
The Portugese Pimera Liga attracts only slightly more spectators than EFL League 2. Outside of Benfica, Porto, Sporting Lisbon it's a steep drop off.
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u/sleeperman43 3d ago
Are Braga Portuguese also?They were quite decent for a while and Boavista also.
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u/Infinite_Crow_3706 3d ago
I remember Braga and Boavista being good too but those days seem to be gone
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u/Feariontach1798 Shamrock Rovers 4d ago
I found it odd to read “NIFL sides like Linfield and Larne struggled to get past them” when they never got past them.
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u/Tis_STUNNING_Outside Cork City 1d ago
Yeah, the last champions cup was 7-1 on aggregate to Dundalk against Linfield.
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u/NorthKoreanMissile7 4d ago
I honestly think you take Rangers and Celtic out of the equation and it's quite competitive with most of the LOI and the rest of the Scottish Prem teams.
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u/peadar87 Bray Wanderers 4d ago
There's nothing like the Old Firm in the LOI in terms of budget or facilities.
In terms of quality on the pitch, the top LOI sides would probably be mid table in the SPL, and be able to pull off the odd upset against the higher sides. I don't think they'd be able to keep up with the likes of Aberdeen, Dundee U or Hibs over a full season. I'd back at least one Irish side to be in the top half of the split each season though.
I think Sligo beating Motherwell was a case of an out of sorts Motherwell side meeting a Sligo side who played to their full potential. If they played twenty times, Motherwell would probably win over half the time.
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u/Sudden_Amphibian_590 4d ago
They played twice and lost convincingly twice
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u/peadar87 Bray Wanderers 4d ago
I don't remember the Fir Park leg being that convincing, more of a tight game that Sligo edged, but the Showgrounds match was something special.
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u/Oat- Sligo Rovers 4d ago
Motherwell failed to create a single chance at Fir Park worthy of a goal. In fact, they were quite fortunate to only be a goal down. They cleared a Mata header off the line with an arm near the end.
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u/peadar87 Bray Wanderers 4d ago
Fair enough, I'll trust the memory of the Sligo fans more than my own on this one.
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u/redrumreturn 4d ago
If they played 20 times your man would probably expect Mitherwell to win 18 out of 20
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u/DonegalRonan35 Finn Harps 4d ago
Sure sligo beat Motherwell out the gate a few years back.
I think quite a few Scottish prem teams would struggle to stay in the division honestly
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u/dangerdouse1888 4d ago
What Scottish Premier league teams do u think would get relegated?
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u/DonegalRonan35 Finn Harps 4d ago
Falkirk, Livingston and maybe even Dundee, Kilmarnock would struggle i think.
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u/dangerdouse1888 4d ago
Think saying they would be fighting relegation is a bit of a stretch though no? I'd say each of them would be fairly comfortable mid table in the loi
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u/BlueBloodLive 4d ago
I reckon Rovers would give the likes of the Dundee, Livingston, St. Mirren a decent go at least.
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u/ScotMcScottyson 4d ago
I'm a Dundee local. 100% Rovers would defeat Dundee. The club isn't anywhere near the level it was two years back under Tony Docherty's initial season.
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u/BlueBloodLive 4d ago
I guess I'd be more thinking that they play better teams than the LoI on a regular basis so they'd have a decent standard of competition compared to Rovers etc.
Kinda off topic, but I was in Dundee in April, had no idea the Beano was from there, saw the stadiums of course, and my goodness, the Dundee crowd for my mates band is now the measuring stick for all their gigs since, cos they were unreal!
Church Dundee, fucking great venue!
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u/selfdestructivesloth Bohemians 4d ago
They're easily better than the first 2 imo. Probably around the same level as St Mirren who have finished top 6 the last 3 seasons
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u/BlueBloodLive 4d ago
It's definitely an interesting one. Would be interested in seeing a Scotland/League One/Ireland Cup, could be quite the mix of fun games.
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u/Tomaskerry 4d ago
I know it's been said before but if you had a joint Irish and Scottish league (including Northern Ireland) it would be beneficial for everyone.
Population of 13 million watching would boost the TV deal.
The Old Firm and Scottish clubs would dominate but over time the Dublin and Belfast teams would catch up eventually, might take 20 years though. The Dublin clubs could play some of their games in the Aviva and Croke Park maybe when Celtic come to town. Cork City could use Pairc Ui Cuiomh. Limerick could use Thomand.
The revenue generated would be huge overnight.
It's probably not possible but it's nice to dream.
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u/Infinite_Crow_3706 4d ago
You mean a United Football Championship? Expect UEFA to give a hard 'NO'. They'd be terrified of PSG joining the Premier League if cross border leagues were tolerated.
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u/NilFhiosAige Kerry FC 4d ago
There was a Nordic league that involved Danish, Norwegian and Swedish teams outside their regular seasons, so if a calendar could be agreed, that would be sanctioned by UEFA.
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u/Infinite_Crow_3706 3d ago
Interesting. Never heard of that. Of course the Welsh teams play in England and a few other cross border examples exist (Derry for one).
The smaller pop countries would probably benefit a lot from shaking up the current systems.
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u/CoffeeIsUndrinkable 4d ago
Old Firm vs. Linfield would be interesting too for the..."atmosphere".
The one big question I would have is regarding European qualification, because I can see the major downside of this league system being a reduction in qualification places.
So let's assume your United Championship runs as a league only, but the sides carry on competing in their domestic national cups. As things stand now, Scotlad has 5 Euro places, R.O.I and N.I have 4.
If this unified league offers, say, 3 places, the Old Firm grab 2 of them for certain, possibly Aberdeen or Hibernian get 3rd. So at best, you might be looking at something like Shamrock Rovers sneaking the 3rd spot but no other Irish or N. Irish club gets a look in, instead having to win the FAI or Irish Cup to get European football next season.
Therefore, the guranteed 4 places currently up for grabs for Ireland and Northern Ireland gets reduced to a guaranteed 1. Would the clubs really go for that? Reaching the play-off round in the even the Europa Conference League gets you roughly 2.5 million Euros - winning just one match nets you just under a million Euros at worst, can two games against the Old Firm generate that kind of money? Would you potentially want to miss out on Europa and Champions League prize money for that?
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u/continuity_sf Klub Kildare 4d ago
7th in spl gets 2.26 million euros. That's more than any nifl has gotten and more than most loi teams do. Plus, the money would be more consistent.
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u/Tomaskerry 4d ago
Loss of European places is a big drawback but the TV deal and other revenue would be way higher.
Also you'd go further in Europe if you qualified as you'd have a better squad.
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u/peadar87 Bray Wanderers 4d ago
Loss of European spots (and potentially even loss of separate national teams if FIFA decided to be officious) would be the big drawbacks.
I've often thought that a combined group stage and knockout competition alongside the leagues might work well with better backing and publicity than the Sétanta Cup got.
When I've mentioned a similar idea to Scottish fans, maybe in place of their league cup, they've always been enthusiastic about the idea of an occasional away trip to Cork or Galway, instead of Arbroath or Ayr.
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u/Green-Donkey2027 4d ago
Always find it interesting the league of Ireland is considered ‘worse’ but the national side has been a lot better over the last 25 years than Scotland.
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4d ago
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u/Green-Donkey2027 4d ago
Yeah true. I’m thinking kinda pre Clarke. Just as a Scot, I always found it interesting the top class players Ireland seemed to produce like and the relative success they had of getting to tournaments compared to Scotland, which has seemingly bigger clubs.
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u/ModJambo 1d ago
Another Scottish fan here.
Been keeping an eye on LoI thanks to some vloggers that have been to games.
Quite impressed at how good the atmosphere and crowds have seemed to have improved over the years.
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u/JellyfishScared4268 4d ago
Fun fact for you. No Scottish side has defeated an Irish side in Europe (over a 2 legged tie) since 1998.
Rangers beat St Pats in the champions league and Celtic beat Shels in the UEFA Cup that season
Obviously we haven't that many ties in the meantime but still a good record for us
Obviously direct comparisons are really difficult. Scotland overall has more money and much better facilities. I've always fancied that the top Irish sides (absent any changes to squads) would not look too out of place in the Scottish premiership. Obviously a good step down from old firm and the next couple of teams but shamrock rovers for example wouldn't be relegated imo.
But I'm hoping that as Irish football has a a lot more room to rise we can essentially rise as a unit and not end up with an old firm style scenario and keep the league of Ireland mostly competitive with many potential winners