r/Luxembourg • u/david_fire_vollie • 4d ago
Ask Luxembourg How comfortable are native Luxembourgish speakers speaking German?
I understand they don't like French very much, have an accent when they speak French, and are taught in French at school when they're older.
But with German, it's very similar to Luxembourgish and it's the langage (Reddit won't let me spell it correctly) of instruction when they start school, at a time where the mind is more easily able to pick up foreign languages.
With these comibned, does this mean German is like a second mother tongue for the natives?
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u/NOC_Volta1re 4d ago
Luxembourgers are very diverse i'd say, you can have luxembourgish families that are more french orientated others more german.
For my part I grew up watching german TV, playing online games in german communities. Other friends of mine watched "Club Dorothée" growing up.
My generation learned german in the first year of primary school and french the year after, so there is not much difference. I don't know if this is still the case today, and maybe others can complete this part.
I believe in the end it comes down to whom your friends are growing up, and what language is easier for you to pick up.
In my case german is the stronger suit expressing myself.
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u/madgirlintown 4d ago
This is the correct answer. You can't lump everyone in the same category. I grew up in the eastern part of the country and I would say most kids from Luxembourgish families would gravitate towards German. Kids from an immigration background (like myself) would not necessarily gravitate towards German, some would, other would prefer French (mainly those with French, Belgian or Portuguese origins).
Luxembourgish kids in the south of the country are more likely to gravitate towards French, but it's not a rule either, most like a general trend.
As someone who has a high proportion of Luxembourgers in their entourage (I have the nationality myself too, although French is my native language), I wouldn't say that most would consider German their second native tongue, Luxembourgish is still far ahead in terms of preference and ease.
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u/david_fire_vollie 4d ago
TV is an interesting one. I assume no TV shows are dubbed in Luxembourish, so you have to choose between French and German? On free to air TV, is there a mix? For example could one american sitcom be dubbed in French, and then another one in German?
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u/NOC_Volta1re 4d ago
the simpsons used to be dubbed in luxembourgish, but that's only a couple of years ago. rtl - simpsons
20 years ago, the luxembourgish channels were RTL.LU NordliichtTV and ChamberTV. well stil today, but now every major municipality has their "channel" aswell.
We'd really watch german/french channels such as Sat1, Prosieben RTL2, TVI, M6, etc.
American sitcoms that I watched dubbed into german are
- Friends
- Home improvement (ger. Hör mal wer da hämmert)
- The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air (ger. Der Prinz von Bel-Air)
- According to Jim (ger. Immer wieder Jim)
- Married... with children (ger. Eine Schrecklich Nette Familie)
- and many more '
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u/samsom0053 4d ago
A bit late, yet I give an anecdotal additional:
I speak for myself, I am Luxembourgish and speak it daily, grew up closer to the German border, I have a more German and germanic language speaking family. I always had an awful relationship with french up to this day. I can speak french, but need to look up every other word while writing, and have a rather basic vocabulary on french. My German on the other hand is fluent, I know I pronounce it with an accent but it doesn't bother me.
I feel so uncomfortable speaking french that I try my best to not speak nor write it because, I know of my mistakes.
I know a lot of my friends from school are suffering similarly, some to the point where they decided to rather live and work in Germany or German speaking countries to evade french entirely.
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u/david_fire_vollie 4d ago
Why do you think there is so much dislike for French? Also with your accent, would it be similar to how Bavarians can have a strong accent, or Swiss, but they still sound like a native German speaker?
If you go across the border to Germany, can they tell straight away you're from Lux, or is Luxembourgish so similar to the German dialect, that they can't tell?7
u/dummeraltermann 4d ago
The accent is typically very close to the accent of the bitburg, trier and saarland folks.
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u/NuKingLobster 4d ago
Yeah, but the people across the border, especially in Trier and Bitburg, usually don't speak Luxembourgish. There is a difference betweeen their dialects and Luxembourgish, even though there are many similarities in pronounciation.
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u/samsom0053 4d ago
From my experience it's a bit of a bubble. Everyone around me in my childhood and still to this days prefers to speak Luxembourgish or German, I never had that amount of conversations or correspondence in French.
Going right over the border you can hear a difference in the dialects from a native to not native speaker. Some sounds are just pronounced differently: like the 'ch' or the 'j' sounds or the intonation in general while being rather similar.
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u/MikaGrof Lëtzebauer 4d ago
to most people at my age that went through the system from the beginning it seems so. could just be my small bubble of friends tho..
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u/david_fire_vollie 4d ago
Do the natives ever have a reason to speak German once they finish school? It seems as though you either speak Luxembourgish with other natives, or you speak French because of all the foreigners who speak French.
Would you only speak German if you met a German speaker from Germany or Austria etc?3
u/MikaGrof Lëtzebauer 4d ago
Rarely, I had teachers that primarily used it, maybe in the north closer to ther german border but otherwise only with germans online for me atleast
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u/Marc-Muller 4d ago
Ao after reading the comments I am the exception: 49yrs now. Born in Luxembourg from a Luxembourgish father and a Belgian mother, I grew up learning French with my mother. Due to her I also watched french TV, but listened Luxemb. Radio, so French isn’t a problem for me since being a kid… (thanks mom by the way!)
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u/Gaeilgeoir_66 4d ago
Those I have spoken to were just fine speaking German, but they sometimes forgot a word.
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u/quietdiablita 4d ago
They speak German with a thick regional accent, like a lot (if not the majority) of Germans, so they wouldn’t stick out in Germany, pronunciation wise.
The question is more: are they willing to speak German? That is not a given. I’ve encountered many Luxembourgish people who could speak German very well but just didn’t want to, for some reason.
In the end, it is all a question of generation, of the part of Luxembourg they grew up in and of their level or kind of education (if they went to university and, if so, where).
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u/reddit-user-redditor 4d ago
Isn't French taught in 2nd grade? I wouldn't call 7 year olds "older" 😅
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u/david_fire_vollie 4d ago
Not according to this website.
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u/madgirlintown 4d ago
The French language is taught from 2nd grade onwards. What the website says (which is correct) is that other subjects (like mathematics, biology, history, etc.) are taught in German in primary school, and later in French in secondary school.
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u/david_fire_vollie 4d ago
Sorry, that's right. I should have clarified. But my point is there's a difference between having a foreign language class every now and then, and being taught all subjects IN that language every day at school. The latter is much more effective because it's submersion.
This is why in France for example, if you go to an international school and get taught in English, you're going to be better at English than kids who just have English class.1
u/madgirlintown 4d ago
I agree with that logic. But you can't teach subjects like math and biology to kids who just started to learn a language, you do need a basic knowledge of that language.
While it's said that non-language subjects are taught in German in primary school, it doesn't mean that only German in spoken in class. It's more that the books are in German, but the teacher will often explain in Luxembourgish.
If all the classes were taught in French, kids might be less good at German, it's a trade off. I think it's simply that the assumption is that German is easier for Luxembourgish kids as it's closer to Lux and most kids might watch cartoons in German rather than French. That belongs to whole alphabetization in German or French debate, as some kids have more ease with French due to their non-lux background and therefore have a harder time learning to read and getting the basics in their school career.
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u/RedHerring352 4d ago
An interesting thing to ask elder Luxembourgers for which professional football (soccer) team they root for! ;-)
Most of them will tell you that they root for a Bundesliga team, since most of them watched german sports shows on german telly in the early days.
And since they root for German teams they will probably go to see some matches in Germany and therefore speak German.
Some “aliens” rooted for FC Metz and preferred french football.
Nowadays everything has changed: People support any team in the world, but especially teams that are participating in the Champions League and/or are playing in the Premier League.
And yes, I have my favourite german and english team…..and I’m happy not needing to speak french in my hobby.
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u/Facktat 3d ago
I wouldn't say second mother language because most Luxembourgish speakers pronounce German pretty poorly but the majority of them understands german 100% and speaks fluently. I think this mainly comes from the fact that we mostly grew up watching German TV. At least that's how it is in the east.
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u/david_fire_vollie 3d ago
Do you think it would be on par with Swiss Germans?
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u/Facktat 3d ago edited 3d ago
It depends on what you consider on par. Swiss Germans have probably the same vocabulary but also have big problems pronouncing high German. I would say that we both have a strong but very different accent and whether a German understands the one or the other better depends where he comes from within Germany.
Also just for fun. Luxembourgers have a few linguistic anomalies which sound strange to Germans. Like we say quiet but mean slow (because it’s the same word in Luxembourgish) or we use the French pronunciation when spelling letter individually.
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u/ForeverShiny 4d ago
They are quite proficient, but worse than they think. Their pronunciation is usually way too close to Luxembourgish and some words/expressions are butchered if they're translated word for word from Luxembourgish
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u/Brinocte 4d ago
I like to believe that Luxemburgish locals largely overestimate their actual oral or eloquence. When I worked at a German company which had also a lot of judicial jargon, I quickly noticed how limited our vocabulary is and that the German language is so vast and expansive.
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4d ago
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u/Old_Exchange7851 4d ago
The real question is,
'Why are all you questions in this sub all about imposing German language?'
We're not in an authoritarian state. Everyone can speak any language that suits them best.
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u/Claddayy 4d ago
Many Luxembourgers grew up watching primarily German television and reading German books. Their German is near native speaker level.