r/MURICA 9d ago

Suburbs

Post image

I can never get over how American suburbs look like. Every time I walk through one I wonder why they cant be accomplished more around the world. The yards, the safe feeling, and the homes. (I think Chile tried to replicate a bit) I just think it’s one of the beauties America has.

587 Upvotes

306 comments sorted by

89

u/No_Cut4338 9d ago

FWIW This is what mid sized cities and first ring suburbs typically look like.

When you hear complaints about suburbs often times they are referring to cul-de-sac based neighborhoods. Generally found in outer ring suburbs.

44

u/Kevroeques 8d ago

The Reddit way is to generally complain about exurbs when it comes to description but extrapolate those complaints to anywhere with SFH and decent property size.

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u/Traveller7142 8d ago

The Reddit way is to generally complain

8

u/Lothar_Ecklord 8d ago

And 2025 Reddit LOVES to complain about and hate US suburbs.

6

u/flobbley 8d ago

One thing I really like about my city is that within a 30 minute bike ride of the city center you have basically every type of housing you could want. Apartments, row homes, small bungalows, mansions, small lots, and large lots. You could live in a century home in a quiet neighborhood with a sprawling yard or an apartment in a lively area where you can be at a restaurant/bar/event within 5 minutes of leaving your house, and both are easily accessible to the rest of the city.

1

u/WoWhAolic 7d ago

It's true, I hate outer suburban sprawl, eats up too much green space that public could enjoy. But I think they're also totally okay as long as they're broken up to allow parks between and green belts.

Doubly so if they're connected to the city public transit so suburbanites can hop a train and go to the city. Paired with good city infrastructure of course. ;)

There's absolutely places for these kind of neighborhoods in a more 'friendly' designed urban/suburban environment.

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u/LanceArmsweak 8d ago

Yeah. I was gonna say, suburb!? This is how my inner city neighborhood looks more or less. I’m in the middle of Portland.

2

u/No_Cut4338 8d ago

Only differences is that we have alleys and most of the garages are detached and in the back here in Minneapolis

1

u/LanceArmsweak 8d ago

Nearly moved there in 2020. Mostly looked around Uptown, South uptown, Linden Hills, around those areas but so many of my coworkers kept suggesting Edina and Wayzata and they just didn’t vibe with me.

1

u/No_Cut4338 8d ago

Many parts of Edina have this vibe fwiw. Not much different between south mpls/linden hills and parts of Edina

1

u/LanceArmsweak 8d ago

Ah. It seems a bit suburban when I was looking. Either way, just ended up buying another home here.

But yeah, plenty of city neighborhoods look like this photo.

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u/SirEnderLord 🦅 Literal Eagle 🦅 9d ago

I actually do like suburban houses.

Why? Well, we get our own backyard, our own perimeter around our house, our own driveway and garage, and the ability to just walk outside directly.

17

u/assasstits 9d ago

You get that in the country side too 

13

u/Lower-Task2558 9d ago

Country side has no walkability, no sidewalks, you need a car for everything and your commute to work is much longer. I walk with my kid in my neighborhood every day and have no fear of being hit by a car or a bike and no fear of aggressive people that I have encountered while living in the city.

25

u/Denalin 9d ago

Basically every suburb I’ve lived in has like three people who actually walk places. Everybody else just drives everywhere, mostly because there’s nothing worth walking to.

6

u/Lower-Task2558 8d ago

After 5 pm mine has a lot of people walking about. They aren't going anywhere, just exercising or walking their dogs or enjoying the fresh air. People are also much nicer than when I lived in the city. Most folks say hello, some stop to chat.

2

u/Denalin 8d ago

I guess my town was just too bland. Strip mall central.

1

u/abscissa081 7d ago

They’re not saying walking to a destination. Walking around the neighborhood just for exercise or fun

1

u/earthdogmonster 8d ago

Same. In an outer ring suburb, near the outside of the development, and that foot path near our house gets a ton of traffic. Lots of people obviously just out getting exercise, but also plenty of people not in a hurry walking or biking the mile to get to local businesses.

1

u/Gerolanfalan 8d ago

Yeah there's a big difference between a rich vs poor suburb

Lots of people walk their dogs after work and children actually play outside with their ebikes gangs and go around town here. This wouldn't have been possible where I was born.

I'm actually very appreciative of it when I'm not so annoyed by all the ebikes rising on the sidewalks and streets

2

u/ScrotallyBoobular 8d ago

Suburbs is one of those terms that has evolved due to horrible planning and zoning.

A suburb like this, adjacent to city centers, is pretty rad!

Most towns that organically grew, had something like this. Main city streets with businesses and some higher density housing nearby, then as you build outwards you get a little more room for wider streets and a yard.

The issue with suburbs haters is we're often talking about those awful, soulless developments well outside of a city that force you into utter car reliance, are horrible for the environment, etc.

3

u/The_Other_Manning 9d ago

no walkability, no sidewalks, you need a car for everything

Thats true for me in the suburbs as well lol

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u/ejzouttheswat 8d ago

I live in a rural metropolitan area, way under 1,000,000. The city did not have sidewalks in certain neighborhoods. When they put them in, they only put them on one side of the road. The road was so small that it was technically two lanes, but you really had to let one person go around you. Our metro systems across the country have always been weak. We need more subways and L trains.

1

u/Lower-Task2558 8d ago

Won't find an argument from me there. The fact that the Moscow subway is much nicer than NYCs should be a shame on the entire country.

1

u/ejzouttheswat 8d ago

Imagine if taking the bus was a good option wherever you live in America. I wouldn't mind taking the hit every now and then. They wanted to be a car focused transportation system. That's why everything is spread out. Trains could bridge the gap and give people more good options for transportation. Especially if you could get a cross country ticket where you drive your car into it like a ferry. You just drive out in LA in your own vehicle.

0

u/assasstits 9d ago

Depends on the countryside. Some countrysides (especially around mountains) have long stretches of pedestrian trails where one can hike in nature. 

Commutes being long is true. Needing a car for groceries is true. Same as most suburbs. 

3

u/Zen100_ 9d ago

And in the country side, you can raise animals, hunt, and grow meaningful food. The suburbs don’t afford you any of that and don’t even offer walkability in return. The suburbs are the worst of both urban and rural worlds IMO.

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u/lampstax 9d ago

Some people don't want acres of land. They definitely don't want to raise barnyard animals or grow a subsistence crop but they also don't want to be living right next to or on top of their neighbors. IMO a suburb with a 6k to 8k sqft lot is a great balance of privacy and space for a dog to run, kids to play and maybe grow a few herbs / vegetables.

3

u/youtocin 8d ago

I would love acres of land but I'm not driving 3 hours every day to commute to a place where well-paying jobs exist.

1

u/ejzouttheswat 8d ago

Most new neighborhoods have HOA's as well, I don't want to live under those. It's just a way to offset road maintenance to the communities, a secret tax.

9

u/TheRider5342 9d ago

Good for people that don't want to farmers

3

u/youtocin 8d ago

And want to live a reasonable distance from a healthy job market.

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u/PolicyWonka 9d ago

I live in suburbs and we can have up to 5 chickens. We can have beehives. There’s plenty of space for a garden.

No, you aren’t going to be self-sustaining from that. But why would you want to be? That itself is a job unto itself. I’m busy and have shit to do — and I can actually do things outside of the home because there are plenty of amenities still.

4

u/BeepBoo007 9d ago

IMO it's the best of both. I get a little bit of space, disconnected housing, and still plenty more convenient access to things I wouldn't get out in the middle of bumfuck nowhere. As someone who's 6' 175lbs and fit, I'm not looking for more excuses to do physical activity. I don't need to be forced to walk/bike to stay in-shape. I have hobbies that do that for me. Ergo, time is the only concern surrounding how "convenient" something is. A 5 minute walk might as well be a 5 minute drive. Bonus points: I grew up in the F&F era and love cars/hooning, so driving my manual sports car is fun to me.

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u/SirEnderLord 🦅 Literal Eagle 🦅 8d ago

Exactly.

Living in the city means that you have a faster access to all sorts of things.

1

u/SirEnderLord 🦅 Literal Eagle 🦅 9d ago

Sure sure, but it isn't the city.

2

u/un-glaublich 9d ago

Where to?

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u/Miserable-Implement3 8d ago

can you modify said land though?

2

u/SirEnderLord 🦅 Literal Eagle 🦅 8d ago

Er, yeah? If it's on my land then, yeah, it's mine.

1

u/Miserable-Implement3 8d ago

hmm, weird, i have an american friend whose opinion differs from yours.. might just be his neighborhood then

2

u/SirEnderLord 🦅 Literal Eagle 🦅 8d ago

"opinion"

"Might just be his neighborhood then"

That's not what an opinion is.

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u/Hon3y_Badger 9d ago

Suburbs (and their single family houses) are a very expensive way of producing housing. Why don't other countries try imitating? Suburbs are a very expensive way of producing housing. Our wealth helps us ignore some of the problems associated with suburb's costs.

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u/Sea_Gap8625 8d ago

And we’re rich enough to afford it. We aren’t broke third-worlds living like bugs

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u/HighRevolver 8d ago

Doing some heavy brushstrokes with the ‘we’

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u/HoneydewNo9941 9d ago

I guess it makes sense why most houses around the world are next to each other. Unless they own land.

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u/SkippyPurple 9d ago

The energy consumption is also insanely impractical for the amount of people these single family homes support

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u/lampstax 9d ago

Isn't that why it is the 'American dream' ? To have the financial stability to be able to afford these 'impractical luxuries' ?

0

u/SkippyPurple 9d ago

When I say insanely impractical, I mean ecologically unsustainable. Single family households shouldn’t use the amount of power they do, but we don’t care and design them anyways.

You can have whatever opinion on that you want, but that’s just the fact of the matter.

9

u/lampstax 9d ago

A modern homes with thermal efficiency and multizone cooling and solar arrays with battery storage solves much of the power concern does it not ?

1

u/BlackSquirrel05 8d ago

Sure for 50K-100k on the price tag.

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u/SkippyPurple 9d ago

It would help, but you’re not describing the default commonly built housing unit in North American suburbs.

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u/lampstax 9d ago

You're right about that but perhaps instead of pushing to get rid of SFH and forcing people to entirely change their way of living, you could get more buy if you push instead of increasing existing home's efficiency.

I think most people innately understand that increased efficiency saves them money in the long run. One of the most popular home upgrades is new double or triple pane windows and ROI is a main reason many invest in home solar systems.

2

u/Denalin 9d ago

The paradox here is that more highly regulated housing codes drive up prices, and the cost of housing is already a huge problem. One reason homes in the past were cheaper was they were smaller and had much simpler construction: way fewer outlets and electrical circuits, lower amperage panels, no GFCIs, no thermostatic shower valves, no HVAC, single-story, single-pane windows, possibly not even overhead lighting, possibly no clothes dryer hookup, no coax or Ethernet in wall, little to no insulation.

So the options for most sustainable housing are either pricey single family houses or cheaper attached homes. You can still have family-friendly multi family homes like is common in Asia, but you need to design for three- and four-bedroom apartments which is uncommon in the US due to other regulations around things like wheelchair accessibility.

Another issue is that even if you could strip out most of the bells and whistles of single family homes and make them like you did in the old days, there’s just so much more profit to make a giant ugly box on a tiny plot of land that lists a lot of square footage on Zillow than a nice bungalo on a decent plot of land. So cheap stuff can only exist far away from desirable amenities, which harms livability.

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u/Genghoul100 9d ago

And yet it has been sustainable for the last 150 years.

5

u/SkippyPurple 9d ago

Yea man, ecologically things are great at the moment what was I thinking

1

u/Genghoul100 9d ago

Notice all those trees and grass in the picture?

0

u/Denalin 9d ago

Most car dependent suburbs are not this pretty.

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u/No_Cut4338 9d ago

yes, a relative blip in the scheme of things. But man do I consider myself incredibly lucky to have been born during it.

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u/BlackSquirrel05 8d ago

Define sustainable here...

Also suburbs are a modern thing... They really only started post WW2.

0

u/Any-Seaworthiness186 8d ago

They’re actually not sustainable. American cities are funding the suburbs through tax revenue from denser neighborhoods.

A mixed city is sustainable. Suburbs in itself are not.

2

u/Genghoul100 8d ago

And yet they have been sustainable since the 1880s. Suburban homes are more valuable than inner city homes, and thus pay more in taxes. You are welcome to live like a sardine, but others do not.

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u/Any-Seaworthiness186 8d ago

Suburbs haven’t been built at a large scale until after WW2. Cities before that had more mixed zoning.

Suburban homes generate significantly less tax revenue than terraced housing or even denser suburbs with smaller lawns. They generate more taxes per house, but not per sqft since there’s less utilized footage. One home with a big lawn is going to generate less revenue than two homes with smaller lawns, and especially much less than terraced housing and apartments. They also require higher infrastructure maintenance costs, spreading out infrastructure over larger areas.

Nobody is saying single family homes are inherently bad. People are just pleading for more diversity because that’s more economically sustainable and has various other benefits such as walkability or the freedom of choice.

1

u/Lower-Task2558 9d ago

My house is in a neighborhood like this. My solar panels cut down on energy use drastically and sometimes I even sell it back to the grid on days I don't use much power.

1

u/SkippyPurple 9d ago

That’s great, it would be awesome to see these systems adopted as more of a standard than individual luxury

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u/Lower-Task2558 9d ago

We do have big tax incentives for solar in my state .Im also working on setting up a composter to make fertile soil for my garden. This summer I was able to grow a ton of tomatoes and other veggies and I don't even have that much land. This wouldn't have been possible when I lived in the city.

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u/MsterF 9d ago

Impractical? For who? Not for those who can afford it.

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u/PolicyWonka 9d ago

The biggest factor is land usage. The United States is very big and empty — even today by most countries’ standards.

There are definitely trade-offs when it comes to suburbs.

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u/Kawabongaz 9d ago

I mean, wealth barely helps here 😅

If I can give my 5 cents in what I read from the statistics

  • Poverty rates are growing faster in suburban areas.
  • With the exception of the rich, suburban areas are the ones that usually get worse faster due to the upkeep costs of the surrounding environment
  • They further increase the zoning problem, which is a cost for the single person rather than an added benefit, making us also nearly completely dependent on cars
  • People in the suburbs are aging, and they don’t have the infrastructure and services to support an old population, which functionally skyrockets the healthcare cost for elder people, be it directly or throughout the society at large

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u/Comprehensive-Tiger5 8d ago

We should make hives like warhammer 40k instead. Force everyone to rent and not own anything

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u/ejzouttheswat 8d ago

The suburbs were designed as a way to decentralize the communities that formed in close knit cities. It used to be where everyone knew their neighbor, and it still is in some places. Most people are still strangers to each other. Our loss of community has really affected people in a broad sense for decades, especially with the younger generation. They didn't need social media when they weren't all spread out.

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u/Francbb 9d ago

Really? Because usually it's sprawled out cities and suburb communities that have the cheaper rents and build the most housing.

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u/Due_Satisfaction2167 9d ago

Suburbs are incredibly expensive on local government. It’s just about the least efficient way to provide city services.

Rural areas can get away with just providing nothing.

Cities have enough people that the per capita cost of infrastructure is very low.

Suburbs need city-like infrastructure but have rural-like population densities to pay for it.

And the end result is that states and the federal government are essentially robbing cities to pay for suburbs, and the suburbs are still going broke trying to manage all the liability this creates. 

2

u/ShinyArc50 9d ago

They’re subsidized heavily by the government. Infrastructure investments, housing tax incentives, etc

2

u/carchiav 9d ago

Most cities with majority suburban areas in the US are having fiscal problems. People always complaining about infrastructure and potholes, etc.

it makes sense once you see a long municipal road with water, sewage, and electric. Let’s say it serves 50 people who make $50k in 20 homes that cost $300-600k each. The road ends in a dead end in a suburban tract.

This road is essentially a government funded private driveway since nobody can use it to go anywhere, except those houses. And it loses money since the tax income isn’t enough to fund the road along with police, fire, and all other services.

The end rent is cheaper because the land is abundant and cheap. I.e. typically not close to desirable areas or amenities other than strip malls. it’s also easier for the owner to maintain a single dwelling unit. If tax was charged according to the cost to maintain this lifestyle , it would become significantly more expensive.

0

u/maple_leaf2 9d ago

Subsidies my friend, it's essentially a ponzi scheme when you look into it

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u/Genghoul100 9d ago

What are these problems?

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u/Hon3y_Badger 9d ago

Some of the other commenters are providing commentary. But financially speaking suburbs are a game of musical chairs, everything is fine when the music is playing but when the music stops you've got a problem. Suburbs work during the growth phase as future builds are paying for the existing infrastructure but even future growth doesn't occur there is an insufficient base to pay for all the existing commitments.

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u/Genghoul100 8d ago

That's why taxes go up over time. Plus the value of homes goes up as well, so the tax base pays for things. People want homes with yards for their kids to play in, to have a pool, or a backyard workshop. They want the kids from the neighborhood to go to the local school, and not be bussed across town.

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u/dysfn 9d ago

Man I just love how I'm basically required to purchase and insure an expensive vehicle, just because of the way American neighborhoods are designed.

I certainly wouldn't appreciate having a walkable city to live in

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u/lampstax 9d ago

What stops you from going to NY and taking the subway everywhere ?

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u/Account7732 9d ago

Then what would they bitch about?

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u/dysfn 9d ago

"Just move to the most expensive city in the US and stop advocating for things that will improve your quality of life where you are"

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u/Account7732 9d ago

A subway would improve my life in zero ways

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u/dysfn 9d ago

Is this a serious question?

Moving costs, housing costs in NYC, my family and friends where I live now, and my SO's employment, are all reasons not to move to NYC. Plus, NYC is huge, walkable cities don't need to be

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u/Lower-Task2558 9d ago

NYC subway system is one of the worst in the world. It really is a shame how dilapidated it is. Moscow has better subways. Fuck Russia, but it's true.

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u/Hon3y_Badger 9d ago

Yeah, I have no problem with vehicles, but I would love to bike to a local grocery store for my dinner ingredients, that's not practical so we own 2 vehicles, 1 that is in the garage 95% of the time because I work from home

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u/Escape_Force 9d ago

Sounds like you need to sell a car and move.

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u/Hon3y_Badger 9d ago

Not leaving my 2% mortgage for anything.

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u/2Beer_Sillies 9d ago

Rent it out and move to a walkable city in the US?

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u/Genghoul100 9d ago

Could live in a tent in LA.

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u/lampstax 9d ago

If that is the case you might save money if you sell the cars and just get groceries delivered.

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u/KittehKittehKat 9d ago edited 9d ago

The malcontent failures of Reddit hate them because they are proof people CAN accomplish things.

Edit: Oh lawd the bicycle riding human wet market loving brigade is here!

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u/exradical 9d ago

Lmao, suburbs are literally cheaper than cities half the time, living in one has nothing to do with success

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u/KittehKittehKat 9d ago edited 8d ago

Shhh don’t tell them. They love feeling superior living in a closet for 5k a month!

Edit: dear autistics. I am saying I dislike two things.

Malcontent redditors that hate everything including mommy and daddy who lived in the suburbs so they hate the suburbs for what it represents not what it is.

Also the same people feel superior living in a rat infested closet spending more money because they don’t qualify for a mortgage and live as perpetual renters while feeling smug about it.

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u/The_Other_Manning 9d ago

I don't think you got what they were saying...

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u/KittehKittehKat 8d ago

Living in the city can cost more than the suburbs.

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u/Genghoul100 9d ago

I added a brush guard to the front of my truck just for bicycles. I love it when they dress up like Lance Armstrong, are they shaving a 0.1 seconds off their time?

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u/KittehKittehKat 9d ago

Nooooo share the road you carbrain! r/fuckcars is gonna get you!

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u/assasstits 9d ago

What?

People hate then because they have caused a severe housing crisis 

And because they aren't walkable. 

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u/lampstax 9d ago

Not every neighborhood needs to be walkable. We invented cars.

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u/Inevitable_Band_8845 8d ago

And now we over rely on them, and they are a necessity

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u/Account7732 9d ago

I live in suburb and can walk to restaurants and grocery stores in less than 5 minutes. I also have this thing called a car that can take me anywhere I want !

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u/Majin_Sus 9d ago

But CARS ARE EVIL!!

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u/assasstits 9d ago

Nope. Cars are great. 

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u/Majin_Sus 9d ago

Fully agree. I'm not walking to the fucking grocery store.

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u/assasstits 9d ago

Well ideally we would have a choice 

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u/Majin_Sus 9d ago

You do

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u/Denalin 9d ago

Nah man when it’s a 30+ minute walk to get food I ain’t walking. It sucks.

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u/assasstits 9d ago

You're definitely in the minority. Most neighborhoods like this have a big separation between commercial and residential.

Cars are great but who wants to need to use them in a city? 

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u/Lower-Task2558 9d ago

In a neighborhood like this you can hop on a bicycle and ride over to main street with no fear of being hit by a car.

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u/Account7732 9d ago

Apparently people who move to the suburbs knowing they will need a car do.

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u/assasstits 9d ago

Well most people don't have a choice. 

Most US cities are designed only for single family housing with other forms of homes for sell being mostly illegal. 

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u/Account7732 9d ago

I think most people like having a car and prefer it over taking public transportation with the poors

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u/assasstits 9d ago

I think it depends where. In the US? Definitely 

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u/Denalin 9d ago

Public transit is only a “for the poors” thing when it’s the last resort, poorly funded option. In places where it’s actually good, you get everybody, rich and poor, satisfied using it.

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u/KittehKittehKat 9d ago

Move to the Netherlands or buy a car. This is r/murica.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/MURICA-ModTeam 8d ago

Political posts or comments are not allowed.

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u/link3945 9d ago

No, they suck because they are incredibly expensive per person housed, far too sparse for public transit, awful for walkability, and complete energy and resource hogs. Having to drive at least 15 minutes to do anything is not great for anyone.

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u/Account7732 9d ago

I don’t want to take public transit with the poors anyway

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u/Majin_Sus 9d ago

Hear hear!

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u/KittehKittehKat 9d ago

But you can get stabbed or spit on isn’t that fun?

I mean I hate driving my convertible places ewwww gross.

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u/Denalin 9d ago

When transit sucks so much that it’s a last resort, it’s only used by people with no better option. When it’s actually good you get well-off people riding it and the system continues to improve and stay safe.

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u/BlackSquirrel05 8d ago edited 8d ago

Lmao please tell us your networth and yearly income.

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u/exradical 9d ago

You do realize that public transit in most of the US is full of lower class people BECAUSE it sucks, not the other way around

In NYC you have finance managers making $500k riding the subway

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u/Account7732 8d ago

Maybe it sucks because people don’t want to fund it because we have and prefer cars? I’d much rather get in my car sitting in my garage and drive straight to work than walk a few blocks in rain / snow / heat and wait for the next bus / train.

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u/exradical 8d ago

That’s definitely a more accurate explanation

I think people would be more amenable to it if they grew up with decent transportation. In the countries that have it, or even American cities like NYC/Chicago, citizens seem to appreciate it

But I do understand why people don’t want to fund something they’ve never even experienced

It’s just a matter of opinion

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u/lampstax 9d ago edited 9d ago

Explain to me how walkability is the ideal.

To me it is going back to the 1800s where you're lugging everything you need for the day on your body like a mule walking and biking everywhere rain or shine or snow. God forbid you have to drop off two little kids a different schools and then pick then up for different sports after school. Now you need to carry school bags / sport bags / lunch bags / snacks bag / water bottles / work bags .. all on a bike .. or dragging it on a bus.

Oh but it is so horrible to have a car where you can leave all that in the trunk and not think twice about it until you need it. Oh nooooo.

Reality is walkability sucks but it is affordable so they want to sell you the idea of it so they can cram poor people into stacked sardine cans and keep them placated like they're not missing out on anything but just getting a morning workout in. That's BS. Why not go back to hauling our own water from community wells as well .. that's another workout you can sneak in. Who needs indoor plumbing ?!

Truth is the rich will still be commuting in cars enjoying A/C and an easy commute no matter how walkable an area might become.

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u/Denalin 9d ago

There’s a reason people say their college years were their best years and usually it has to do with the community and, yes, walkability plays a big role. College campuses and college towns are usually specifically walkable. Could you imagine needing to drive to every different class?

Walkability isn’t a “you must walk”… it’s a “you CAN walk”. Also, there should be school buses for your kids.

I moved from somewhere where the nearest grocery store was a 25 minute walk or a five minute drive… I just always drove it. I now live somewhere with a mom and pop grocery within a five minute walk of my home, cafes and playgrounds for my kid also within a few minutes and I’ve gotta say my health and happiness have definitely improved.

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u/lampstax 8d ago

The you can walk argument sounds great because at the surface level it sounds like you're getting an additional thing .. so cool .. people love getting more.

Except in reality .. at least in America it is always subtractive in practice when implemented. City leaders and planners don't do the hard work of getting funding approval for new things so it is easy to just take existing infrastructure away from cars and drivers.

When cities add walkability, 99 times out of 100 it comes by taking away car infrastructure: road diets, fewer lanes, reduced parking, slower speed limits. That means the car option becomes more expensive in gas, in parking fees, and most of all in time lost to traffic.

So now it might sound like I have the option to walk my kids to school dragging bags like I'm a human mule or drive them, the reality given time constraints and the new burden placed on it .. needing to get from one school to another on time and to work on time .. means I really only have one option even if I hate it.

I'll tell you this personal experience as well.

I lived in a neighborhood where we had a grocery store move into a plaza within a 5 min walk. It was fun in the beginning walking there if I need a few things .. a couple onions, apples or a sandwich .. however I always took my car whenever I needed anything weighing more than a few lbs .. like milk or meat.

As time went on and the novelty wore off I found myself never walking to that store any more.

It was easier and more convenient for me to take one trip a week and get everything I need hauled home in a car than daily trips to get a few things here and there. It was also quite convenient to stop by as the last stop when I'm already going out and about somewhere else in my car.

Furthermore, there were many weeks I didn't even go to that market and instead drove to ones further out because the deals was better or the local one didn't have specific items I'm looking for ( like ingredient for Asian food ).

So after a while I find myself walking to it maybe once or twice a year during holidays or whatever when I have time to burn and I want to make going to get groceries more of an event. I would say how much this improve someone's health and fitness will vary greatly and can't really be used to advocate for walkability.

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u/Denalin 8d ago

They should have school buses for your kids since the school is so far away. Wouldn’t you agree that it’d be better if there was a neighborhood school they could just walk to so once they’re eight or nine years old and able to handle it themselves you don’t need to chauffeur them to school?

Any time I go on vacation it seems the best places are either the ones out in the middle of nowhere with tons of nature, or the ones with amenities within walking distance… Places like this downtown Healdsburg: https://thehealdsburgwalkingtour.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/street-shot.jpg

For sure the argument that “adding” walkability takes away from driveability is legit. Ultimately the two are zero-sum. If you want ultimate driveability you need huge parking lots and wide roads, which make walking inconvenient or impossible. If you want ultimate walkability you need small streets and things spaced close together which precludes parking lots.

If you designed a place from the ground up to be a family friendly walkable town (like Culdesac in Tempe https://culdesac.com), you would absolutely go light on cars from the start. It would make car ownership more expensive, but potentially you wouldn’t need the car as much so it would even out.

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u/lampstax 8d ago

There is school bus in my area ( public bus that most school kids takes ) but my kids still prefer to be dropped off as they don't like to use the bus. Have to wait at bus stop in all weather .. needs to walk 5 min to bus stop .. kids they don't like on the bus .. fighting that happens on the bus sometimes or if the bus is full then waiting for the next one will make them late. So many reason why driving is the better experience that they want to convince you is bad so the rich people will get to enjoy without the poor cluttering up the road.

I do agree with you that when I travel I love places with walkability as well. But the difference is that is travel. I can meander in Paris and Rome with no set schedule .. going into random coffee shops to try different croissants while taking transit is fun. Getting lost in NY trying to find your way through the subway system is fun as well ( until you're late to your next Broadway show ). I commuted in buses most of my youth as well as in college. I took CalTrain and BART to work in SF. I even took those bus to Disneyland that drops you in front of the gate. 😃

All to say that I don't come at this without knowledge of the transit experience in America as well as other countries around the world. In every single one of those experience .. the majority of rich people are in private cars on the public road as that is the better mode of daily transportation overall.

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u/Denalin 8d ago

Ah what I meant by school bus was one of those yellow ones that has a space for every kid along the route. The buses in my hometown had room for say ~50 kids and a set route to pick up that many kids. It was super convenient for my parents.

I’d agree that in most cities, especially US cities, private cars are used by the well-off and transit by the middle and lower classes, but a sign of a great transit system is one that is used by all social classes. Tokyo is a good example of this kind of system.

I actually think Caltrain is a pretty good example too, as it has probably the highest-paid customers of any transit system in the US lol (maybe SMART in Sonoma/Marin or some of the ferries beat it). I used to ride it from SF to a tech job in the Peninsula; sometimes I’d carpool with a coworker. I’d say the days I took Caltrain were much more relaxed than being stuck in 101 traffic.

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u/lampstax 8d ago

My absolute worse horror commute was on CalTrain with a jumper before Uber days. SF to Mt View and stuck for 3 hours at San Bruno while they did god know what to clear it out .. no idea when the train would restart again and my car was parked in Mt View and I had to ask someone to drive out from SJ to San Bruno to drop me off in Mt View at around 7PM ( still traffic hours ) .. the stuff of nightmares.

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u/Denalin 8d ago

Woof. I’ve been there. They really need to grade separate that entire corridor.

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u/BlackSquirrel05 8d ago

Not having to sit in traffic... Not fighting for or paying for parking.

The exercise from walking or riding makes you feel better... Ya know the impact of not being a lazy fat fuck.

Like your response reads like the most pathetic whiny weak boi response ever. "Things are heavy, and walking is hard!!"

 Now you need to carry school bags / sport bags / lunch bags / snacks bag / water bottles / work bags .. all on a bike .. or dragging it on a bus.

No... You use one bag and like pack it... Or you make good money and just buy lunch cause you're not a poor.

rich will still be commuting in cars enjoying A/C

I had multiple C levels and above use public transit when I lived in major metro area of the US lol. Most were not driving in because... Who wants to be hours in traffic and then dealing with parking v a 15 to 45 minute train ride? The folks that didn't often just didn't have a train close by and thus the combined trip would have just been a wash.

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u/Majin_Sus 9d ago

Sure it is! It means I don't have to live around people like you.

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u/MsterF 9d ago

I don’t want my house anywhere near a bus stop or retail shoppers

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u/Denalin 9d ago

Why.

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u/MsterF 9d ago

I want my neighbor hood to be neighbor with me and my neighbors. I interact with strangers all day and don’t want to when I’m at my home.

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u/Denalin 9d ago

Oh but like what if it’s a corner store that basically just serves the neighborhood? I visited my dad’s hometown and their neighborhood was more oldschool and there was like this little general store / candy shop kind of place and it was awesome. They’d do BBQs on the weekends too.

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u/2Beer_Sillies 9d ago

Europoors will see this and hate it because there isn’t passenger trains and they can’t walk to the grocery store

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u/SH4DOWBOXING 9d ago

not been able to walk to any store is a big L being honest

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u/2Beer_Sillies 9d ago

Yeah I love being able to only get 2 days worth of groceries and have to carry everything home 3 times a week. Super convenient!

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u/Boratssecondwife 8d ago edited 8d ago

"God could you imagine 15 minutes of walking three times a week!"

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u/StierMarket 6d ago

Then you can move to NYC

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u/bean_yeeter_420 9d ago

As we should. As a kid in a suburb, you're screwed if you want to go anywhere and a parent can't give you a ride. People wonder why kids don't go outside, and then own homes far away from everything and everyone.

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u/suydam 9d ago

I live in a suburb that looks almost exactly like this. There are kids outside all day when they're not in school. They run around, they ride bikes/scooters to each other's houses, they play in front yards and back yards. It's pretty great for the kids tbh.

By American standards, it's incredibly walkable because there are sidewalks. In the version of this where I live, there is a grocery story and a retail area about 3 city blocks of walking from a picture that looks like this. I walk there all the time. It's not everywhere, but this photo (or something like it) and "reasonably walkable" isn't unheard of.

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u/MsterF 9d ago

Yeah if only you were close to a bodega and public transportation then children could run free.

Suburbs are sought after exactly because children can run outside.

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u/Denalin 9d ago

And yet they don’t run outside. I see way more kids out and about when I visit somewhere like Brooklyn than I do when I go to my hometown. I remember days where I basically spent all day playing video games as a kid because all my friends lived so far away and the kids in my neighborhood weren’t close enough in age. Sucked.

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u/MsterF 9d ago

I guess you’re in the wrong suburb. The ones around me have a million little brats on electric scooters at all hours the day.

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u/Denalin 9d ago

Man that’s good to hear. Idk maybe it was just too hot or friends were too spread out here I grew up.

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u/Sea_Gap8625 8d ago

Whereas kids in the city have so much to do! Like shopping without money, eating out without money, going to entertainment venues that cost money. I love when my little boy is accosted by homeless addicts on his walk to work!

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u/2Beer_Sillies 9d ago

No, that’s what bikes are for. We would ride everywhere and stay outside during summer days from 12pm to sunset every day growing up in the suburbs. Kids not going outside anymore is because of other things.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/MURICA-ModTeam 9d ago

No direct linking to other Reddit posts.

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u/Tchexxum 8d ago

What suburbs have trains going through them?

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u/Voyager87 8d ago

Nope, I just saw the street from Malcolm in the Middle.

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u/Chinjurickie 8d ago

Good to see Europoors live rent free in your head. XD (we have those aswell)

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u/2Beer_Sillies 8d ago edited 8d ago

Nope just saw one comment from one on this post first like always

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u/JackRose322 8d ago

Suburbs that look like this often have trains and walkable stores, at least around NYC.

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u/PastAd8754 9d ago

I mean Canada has great suburbs too lol

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u/HoneydewNo9941 8d ago

Hahah how did I forget about Canada! 🇨🇦.

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u/RVADoberman 9d ago

We're gonna have to take your word for it

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u/Spiritual_Extent_187 9d ago

Beautiful 🤩

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u/flobbley 9d ago

If people like suburbs more power to them but I'd be miserable in one. I grew up in the suburbs but have lived in compact towns/cities since college and would never go back.

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u/HoneydewNo9941 8d ago

I’ve lived in the country side often but I still suburbs are beautiful. There’s a big possibility people living in them are very lonely tho.

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u/hydraheads 9d ago

What you've got pictured isn't a standard suburb—this is clearly an older (pre-war) one that shows clear and consistent wealth. The houses look to be in great condition, there are large setbacks, and there are what appear to be mature street trees. If this particular place had come across hard times, the landscaping wouldn't be so great and the street trees might be gone.

My hunch is that there's a large and wealthy city about a 30-45-minute train ride away.

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u/HoneydewNo9941 8d ago

Are you kidding. There’s so many nice suburbs where I live. I was inspired to write this post because I was walking around one yesterday.

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u/_Arch_Ange 8d ago

It's still kind of terrible. You'd probably need to walk a further 30 mins to get to the train and that road is way way way too big for a residential area (smaller roads means cars can't go as fast and you get more land to use

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u/hydraheads 8d ago

Oh it's 100% still terrible. Whenever I see super-dilute suburbs I think of all needless miles of extra infrastructure and how much better life could be for all of us in a Philadelphia-rowhouse situation.

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u/Badkevin 9d ago

American suburbs are picture like in the above, but in reality are heavily car centric, highways, gas station, say goodbye to walking.

If People in American suburbs want to walk, they actually have to plan it ahead of time. It’s never built into their days, and it’s important to me and most city people. Imagine have to drive everytime you need bread.

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u/HoneydewNo9941 8d ago

Haha I live in the country side right in the Midwest but I’ll always love the suburbs. Especially, during high school where you could just walk in them. But yeah I always have to drive everywhere.

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u/Badkevin 8d ago

That’s cool man, nice fresh air outside your home. You prob can even see some stars.

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u/HoneydewNo9941 8d ago

Yes, I also love it! Just lonely sometimes.

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u/partagaton 9d ago

Yeah, this suburban street is older than most American suburban neighborhoods that exist today. Not only does it have trees, but they’re mature. And it looks like life can even thrive here, unlike where most suburban builds are happening today.

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u/_Arch_Ange 8d ago

You know people grow trees and then they just transport the adult tree to where it needs to be planted ... Just because the trees are big doesn't mean that's street is older than most neighborhoods, and even if it was that doesn't mean everything that's around that street was always there....

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u/patricide1st 8d ago

The only problem with the suburbs are all the clueless suburbanites that inhabit them. I'll just stay out in the woods, thanks.

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u/HoneydewNo9941 8d ago

Hahaha I’m out in the country too.

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u/Miserable-Bridge-729 8d ago

Always lived in the suburbs. Things like walking as kids and exploring and especially trick or treating was such an iconic part of Americana. Today my kids are mostly grown but they all got to experience the movie example of kids trick or treating, going house to house, some but not all houses decorated nicely. Riding your bike or walking to nearby stores, parks, or hangouts. The suburbs I grew up in and my kids grew up in were movie like and not those weird California style (and other places) where a developer just created cookie cutter homes.

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u/HoneydewNo9941 8d ago

Yes! This is what I’m talking about. I’m just thankful I got to experience this during my high school years with friends.

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u/Tzilbalba 8d ago

I prefer a farmhouse with a wrap around porch in the Rockies somewhere.

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u/HoneydewNo9941 8d ago

Oh for sure! Having your own land is the best. But I love a good suburban walk.

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u/Tony_228 8d ago

I'd hate having an HOA. If it's my yard, I'll plant whatever I want and get rid of the lawn.

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u/HoneydewNo9941 7d ago

I never lived an HOA thankfully. Don’t plan on doing it either but I appreciate how pretty it looks.

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u/Genghoul100 9d ago

People from other countries do not understand 90% of America is still undeveloped land. We have plenty on space and we are going to use it!

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u/write_lift_camp 8d ago

Want to explain then why we build this same way in Hawaii?

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u/Genghoul100 8d ago

Still plenty of space in Hawaii!

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u/write_lift_camp 8d ago

Is there? Does it make sense that the same way we build places in Kansas is how we build them on a rock in the Pacific Ocean??

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u/Genghoul100 8d ago

Why? How should they be built?

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u/write_lift_camp 8d ago

I have no idea lol, that’s for Hawaii to decide. My point is that attributing suburbia to the abundance of space America has falls short when you consider Hawaii. I think Hawaii shows that suburbia is the result of a set of financial and regulatory incentives that make it the dominant development pattern across the country. So that’s why in both Kansas and a rock in the ocean, we are building the same stuff.

It’s akin to central planning.

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u/xHourglassx 8d ago

Urban or suburban sprawl, though, ultimately means that our cities creep so far into nature that there’s less nature for us to escape into.