I swear it’s all I’ve been seeing.

[u/Mr_Pinstripe1]

Don’t get me wrong, the game ain’t perfect but I’m not letting small imperfections ruin my entire experience.

I said it once and I’ll say it again. The driving is peak.

The story meets the standard for the Mafia series so y’know, it’s good.

The shooting is really good and yes it is better than all the other mafia games and also better than RDR2 and GTA V.

How is it better? Well, first of all, when it comes to shooting in RDR2, as the player, you don’t really feel the weight of the gun you are shooting.

Basically in RDR2 and GTA, it just feels like you’re shootings airsoft guns but mafia: the old country actually feels more realistic and I feel more immersed when it comes to gunplay and I don’t doubt other games also have better gunplay than Mafia: the old country but, I can’t speak on those because I haven’t played them.

To be fair, nobody, not even me, should be comparing Mafia the old country to other games outside of the Mafia series.

This isn’t me being ignorant also. The games has flaws. I definitely think it holds the game back to an extent but then again, consider the fact that this isn’t another Mindseye or Ubisoft game or activision game… and it does what it what all mafia games set out to do? Then you can’t complain too much.

[u/AndyMazaky]

The gunplay is very subjective, and I disagree with you on the weight. As someone who has shot real firearms before, I can say that games often minimize certain aspects of gun handling to make the gameplay smoother. TOC, on the other hand, overshoots a bit, and I don’t think it can objectively be seen as better than RDR2, which leans more toward realism, or GTA V, which is more arcade-like. Saying it's better than both feels like a stretch, especially since all three games are so different — from gameplay design to the in-lore experience the characters have with guns, and even the types of firearms they use.

As you mentioned, you haven't played many games with truly refined gunplay, so I think it’s just a matter of you gaining more experience to understand some of the common criticisms about the feel of the gameplay. That said, I agree it's somewhat subjective.

But the most important points in your post, to me, are the following:

Comparisons are normal and necessary: I firmly believe that any game should be compared to others within the same genre, category, and even price point. That’s a standard practice in any medium, and judging a game in an echo chamber without the possibility of comparison isn't fair — or healthy. What I find odd is that almost no one compares TOC with GTA V or RDR2, even though many on this subreddit use those titles as a shield against criticism. Most of the comparisons are actually internal — pointing out how the Mafia franchise itself hasn't evolved much since the earlier entries. Honestly, I think TOC would receive much less criticism if it were the first entry from a lesser-known studio. But it’s not. And I also believe the criticism would be much harsher if it had the "Mafia" name attached to it.

Criticism doesn’t make you less of a fan: The idea that anyone criticizing the game isn't a "real Mafia fan" is just flawed. People have criticized games since the beginning — that’s why game reviews have existed since the 1970s. Once you buy and play a game, you're entitled to voice your opinions, highlight flaws, and express disappointment. If every bit of criticism is dismissed as "hate" or as coming from "non-fans," then all you'll get in return are more lazy, copy-paste releases from studios. That’s one of the reasons why AAA games nowadays have so many issues. You even brought up Ubisoft — well, guess which fanbase also used to claim that critics "weren’t real fans"? Assassin’s Creed. And look how that turned out. People criticize because they care — because they don’t want the franchise to become another Ubisoft-style product or end up like Mindseye, as you mentioned. So yes, people absolutely have the right to complain.

And honestly, I see the opposite of what you're suggesting — especially on this subreddit. People constantly try to justify their purchase by claiming TOC is one of the best launches ever. They downvote criticism, create an echo chamber of forced positivity, and sometimes even resort to insults when others don't completely agree with their opinion.

[u/D4rkSp4de → u/AndyMazaky]

See this mafia game is essentially the first one this studio has made. If I’m not mistaken hangar 13 had a big personnel shift between mafia DE and this game, so most of the devs haven’t worked on a mafia game before. Also, the games have certainly evolved from the earlier entries. Mafia 1 ( not DE) and 2 are VASTLY different from any of the games we have gotten recently.

[u/AndyMazaky → u/D4rkSp4de]

The first game that Hangar 13 developed for the Mafia franchise was Mafia III. Mafia I: Definitive Edition was their second title, and TOC was their third entry. They also essentially finished Mafia II after 2K acquired the franchise, which explains much of the cut content from that game.

I understand your point about how new developers impacted the franchise — and how, for them, this was their first Mafia game. But even so, given how much time has passed, they should have taken the time to fully understand the fundamentals of the franchise and its engine, rather than switching to Unreal Engine 5 seemingly just to cut corners — which is how it comes across to me.

Another approach would have been to create a new game with a similar setting but without attaching the Mafia name to it. That would have given them more creative freedom without the weight of expectations tied to a franchise that has existed for over 23 years. Because even if it’s their first Mafia title, it’s still another installment in a long-established series.

I also agree with your points about Mafia I and II, but my argument is about how the franchise has stagnated after its initial innovations. Even when Mafia II came out, one of the biggest criticisms was its lack of gameplay innovation. And don’t get me wrong — I love Mafia II and have played it 13–15 times — but the cut content after 2K’s acquisition is clearly noticeable, showing how much they weren't able to implement.

With TOC, I see a regression in many areas. It feels more like a new IP that borrows elements from Mafia, rather than an evolution of what made the previous games great. In my opinion, Mafia I: Definitive Edition felt like a step forward — a move in the right direction — whereas TOC feels like we're back at square one.

[u/Flaky_Comfortable_17 → u/AndyMazaky]

Gonna disagree on that, their in house engine was ass and no amount of fixing would have been worth it, I'm glad they switched

[u/AndyMazaky → u/Flaky_Comfortable_17]

What makes you say that it was ass? Any engine has it's fair amount of problems but labeling Fusion as "ass" just for the sake of it does seem a little out of pocket to me. How is UE5, with the amount of crashing, stuttering, pop-ins and the awful performance any better than the old engine I would ask?

[u/Flaky_Comfortable_17 → u/AndyMazaky]

For all it's faults, ue5 is way more stable than the last games, specifically mafia 3, at the time, ue5 hate really is getting stupid, and people knew the last engine was an outdated mess, that was the main problem people had with the remake, buggy, code like spaghetti made with 2 different languages, graphics werent all that for all the trouble

[u/AndyMazaky → u/Flaky_Comfortable_17]

How is it fair to blame UE5 hate when the game's performance is terrible on any system, with persistent stuttering, pop-in, and crashes—even after switching engines? A game that lists 32GB of RAM and 12GB of VRAM as recommended requirements is nowhere near optimized or stable.

Yes, the Fusion engine had its issues, and Mafia 3 proved that. But Mafia 1: Definitive Edition showed that those problems could be addressed. It was a clear example of improvement, with fewer crashes, less stuttering and pop-in, and much lower system requirements—only 6GB of RAM minimum—while still delivering solid visuals.

Criticizing the graphics in Fusion-era games as "not worth the trouble" is ironic when the alternative—UE5—suffers from the exact same issues. In fact, it often cuts corners, offering fewer details than previous games, while demanding at least triple the hardware requirements. It can’t even run natively on 95% of PCs and requires upscaling and frame generation just to be playable.

And this isn’t just a problem with TOC—the newly released Metal Gear remake has the same major issues with performance and engine limitations, calling one "ass" while defending the other makes little to no sense.

[u/Flaky_Comfortable_17 → u/AndyMazaky]

The new game really ain't that bad performance wise, you greatly exaggerated ue5s problems and have too much faith in the last engine, mafia DE was good and the engine was obviously improved but you could see sometimes that it just was too outdated, im sorry but I like to play my games, not wait 100 years for them to fix an engine with spaghetti code

[u/AndyMazaky → u/Flaky_Comfortable_17]

I'm not exaggerating anything. The requirements I mentioned are directly from the official specifications posted by 2K for both games. The issues I’m talking about, aside from my own experience, are widely known online. You can find videos or posts about technical problems on the subreddit in less than five minutes.

I also don’t have much faith in the new engine. However, based on my experience and the general feedback from people who played Mafia 1:DE and the latest game, I’ve seen far more complaints about the new game and UE5 than I did for the previous entry.

As for the "not waiting 100 years" comment, it’s funny because Mafia 3 launched in 2016, and Mafia 1:DE, which used the improved engine, came out in 2020—four years later. Meanwhile, Mafia: The Old Country took five years to release. So, it actually took more time to launch with the new engine than with the "outdated spaghetti code" engine.

To which I'm also not sure where you're getting the idea or sources to be so adamant that the Fusion Engine was "spaghetti code," especially since its code was never leaked online, nor was the Illusion Engine. The only known issue with the engine was its handling of multiple light sources over large distances.

[u/Flaky_Comfortable_17 → u/AndyMazaky]

The time both games took to develop is a complete different story, mafia DE was a side project while most of the team developed a now cancelled super hero game, while mafia TOC begane development in late 2022, as what I assume to be another side project since hangar 13 is used as a supporting studio for bigger 2k IPs. Back to the point, The requirements and the stability are two different things, I've seen countless of times people complaining about the stability after having less than the minimum requirements, it's 2025, upgrade or move on to ps5, I know it's a recession and all but imagine if people were like "this GTA V is ass why doesn't it work on my pentium or ps2"