r/MensLib 16d ago

The cure for male loneliness is feminism. Seriously.

https://makemenemotionalagain.substack.com/p/the-cure-for-male-loneliness-is-feminism

Curious your thoughts! I wrote about how the answer to male loneliness is caring, and how caring is really, really hard. Especially for those of us who’ve been socialized as men. We’ve been told that anything outside of going to work or optimizing ourselves by lifting weights, sitting in ice baths, and pounding creatine isn’t worth much. That caring for others isn’t a “productive” or “efficient” use of our time. That someone else will always end up doing it. That we’re not supposed to do it because women are naturally, biologically designed for it and we’re not (which is untrue). That if we do it, we’re less valuable, like a woman, less of a man. But showing up and caring is both good for other people and us. We have to do more of it.

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u/Nuclear_Geek 15d ago

I'm afraid this is based on a fundamentally false premise:

What thing? Care. Just care. Just “show up for other people, actively and regularly,” as Bucks writes. “Not because they can do something for me (validate me, sleep with me, advance my career, temporarily quiet my doubt and self-loathing, etc.) but because we all share a world and therefore deserve to have one more person give a damn about us.”

Just text a friend who’s struggling. Just help clean up after friend’s party. Just do more housework and parenting (or at least talk to your partner about how they feel about the division of household labor). Just offer to watch your friend’s kids (or at least bring them a Tupperware of soup they can throw in the freezer for a busy weekday evening). Just show up to community meetings in your neighborhood. Just volunteer at your kid’s school. Just join a political organization like the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) and pitch in to all the back-end planning stuff that such an organization requires. Just organize a few neighbors to clean up trash on your street.

I speak from bitter experience that showing up for other people, actively and regularly is not a cure for loneliness. In the short term, it can make you feel better, and make you feel part of something bigger than yourself. But you know what happens if you show up to help, actively and regularly? You get taken for granted. To reiterate a common complaint, you're only valued for what you do, not who you are. And when you do it regularly, those you're helping often feel less need to connect with you - after all, you're the reliable guy, you'll always show up. No need to bother making an effort to keep you engaged or care how you feel about things, you're going to be there regardless.

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u/FlaccidGhostLoad 15d ago

But you know what happens if you show up to help, actively and regularly? You get taken for granted

THANK YOU! Exactly!

It takes two people to have the same goal and if I am the only one who is trying to be a good friend and the others can (and do) ignore me and reject me and do shit behind my back but only call on me when they need something I would rather be lonely than to be some fucking on call doormat desperately hurling myself any social situation I can.

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u/stormcynk 7d ago

Exactly, this resonates a ton for me. It would be nice if people returned at least 10% of the effort you give to them.

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u/RESERVA42 15d ago

This is what happens when you show up without being vulnerable, expressing needs, and accepting help. It's something I struggle with, and it's related to codependency and people pleasing. If you're in multiple situations and you say to yourself "why does it always go this way?", the common factor might be yourself. Counseling and a lot of introsepction helped me make progress in this area, but I don't think I'm cured of it.

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u/Cualkiera67 15d ago

If you're nice and everyone takes you for granted, that's everyone else's problem, not yours. They are the ones that need to go to therapy and learn, not you.

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u/RESERVA42 15d ago

I don't think the world is all sociopaths and narcissists. That behavior is not normal. So if someone keeps having the same experience in relationships, either they are attracted to unhealthy people, or they have a behavior and mindset that encourages a certain dynamic. That's all abstract, do you want me to get more specific?

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u/Sasuag 14d ago

Just because someone may take someone's actions for granted, doesn't mean that they're a sociopath or anything like that. It is more often a issue of negligence and not considering their approach to the friendship. But yes, I do think that there comes a point in time where you can be in a environment where the people who you may actively try to be there for, even when you express your needs to them for reciprocation, might not give it back, and it could be on them and not you. It's not a black and white scenario.

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u/RESERVA42 14d ago

Yes I completely agree with everything you said. When it becomes a pattern over many years, causing someone to say they think that's normal for relationships, then it seems likely that the person saying it has some maladaptive approaches to relationships that lead to that outcome. And it happened to me and so I could relate.