r/Metalcore • u/kevteeindeed • 23h ago
Discussion [ Removed by moderator ]
[removed] — view removed post
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u/ActiveControl23 22h ago
I’m sure Craig will have a very balanced and non snarky response to everyone’s feedback.
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u/Ancient_Boss_5357 21h ago edited 20h ago
I really like the podcast, and I really like Craig as a host. But, as it's gained more and more popularity, it feels like he does backflip on his opinions and sacrifice a little of his integrity from time to time, if it suits the guest.
It used to be inconsequential silly stuff, but there's been a couple of guests/discussion points in more recent times that haven't felt quite right to be honest. I can't remember specifics, but I felt like there was some apologetics for some shitty things going on in the King810 episode, for example.
I haven't listened to it, maybe it's a real grilling with no punches pulled and it's actually decent. I'm not passing judgement yet. But giving him a platform seems like a very weird choice given Craig's general philosophy, and I feel like a year or two ago he would have told Alex to stick it
Edit: While I haven't listened to it, I have since seen Craig post promo clips on social media. His stance is essentially "I know enough people who know him, to know he's not a Nazi".
Honestly, that's an absolutely awful take. The guy has been proven to have concerning associations and viewpoints, and has even publicly said problematic shit for everyone to see. The 'my friends say he's chill' defence is mental gymnastics and Craig has been more than willing to absolutely blast people with zero leeway in other instances. The whole thing just seems very odd and not what I would have expected from him
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u/samsaBEAR 13h ago
"Nazi Punks fuck off" he screams until one can come on his podcast and generate this type of social media reaction.
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u/Ancient_Boss_5357 4h ago
I hate to stir the pot with old news, but it has shades of Architects and the way they handled the Adam drama. Hyper critical and outright aggressive when it comes to injustice and hate in the world, but weirdly complacent when it actually comes from within their circle.
Instead, giving a quick speech to smooth it over and treating everyone like children by expecting them to believe a guy 'accidentally' did a bunch of things that are statistically as likely as me winning the lottery twice in a week
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u/kevteeindeed 20h ago
I really enjoy his podcast too. Garza also has a great podcast as well. I think there’s a certain way to go about handling controversial guests and I’m not sure if this was handled in the best way I don’t know what Craig considers on his end as far as running a business goes. I do know that for myself, on a basic human level, I do not appreciate people That hate on people‘s choices and beliefs. Be it nazis or communists.
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u/Ancient_Boss_5357 20h ago
You don't appreciate people who hate on Nazi beliefs?
I get the sentiment when it comes to milder/harmless points of view, but man... there's a line.
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u/sock_with_a_ticket 19h ago
I think there’s a certain way to go about handling controversial guests
Not book them in the first place?
I don't see the point in platforming them unless you're really seriously going to get into the issues with them.
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u/TrashCanAnomaly 20h ago
Bruh, communists are not equivalent to nazis
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u/kevteeindeed 20h ago
I don’t think I said anything about either being worse than the other. I’m not disagreeing with you
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u/Jackielegs43 19h ago
They’re a TikTok mainstay at the moment so it’ll get big time views. Integrity and morals go out the window for a couple more clicks and it’s really disappointing. I love Creg but I was just disappointed to see that thumbnail. Also slaughter to prevail just aren’t a very good or interesting band at all, which makes it even worse.
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u/NickPookie93 Metalcore President 15h ago
I'm awaiting screenshots, but it seems like from multiple reports, Craig has acknowledged in the private Downbeat Discord server that he really fucked up
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u/Br0dobaggins 23h ago edited 23h ago
The amount of people commenting "Alex should get the black sun tattoo re-added" and shit like that is WILD. Plus the amount of people still trying to say it's an "ancient slavic symbol" when in fact it was literally created by the SS.
Alex may have actually moved on from his racist past, but he's still said plenty of homophobic and transphobic bullshit in the very recent past that easily contradicts his other claims. No different than some old boomer saying the most vile homophobic shit possible and then saying "but I have a gay friend so I'm not homophobic.
And before some bigot-sympathizing mouth-breather gets the idea to whine at me needing to separating the art from the artist: No ❤️
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u/ClassroomIll7096 22h ago
Should have had Stone Temple Pilots instead bro.
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u/BC_Ages 22h ago
Are we not talking about Stone Temple Pilots? Is this about Stray The Path? Who the hell is STP??
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u/kevteeindeed 22h ago
Slaughter to Prevail. My bad with that title. I made the poor choice to assume everyone would understand.
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u/ClassroomIll7096 22h ago
I did. I still stand by my call they should have the other band in than these weirdos.
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u/kevteeindeed 22h ago
😂 probably right tbh. Who knows - all this controversy might be what they want from us. It’s engagement and giving it attention 🤷♂️ for all I know it could be a rage bait situation. If you watch 48:17 in the episode Craig speaks his peace.
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u/BC_Ages 22h ago
I think including Stray from the Path (SFTP) and Slaughter to Prevail (STP) in the same post without the full names was definitely a choice. Is the Downbeat podcast run by the dudes in Stray?
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u/kevteeindeed 22h ago
Thanks man, I’ll definitely consider this if I post again. I appreciate your thoughts bruv 🫂
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u/ReturnByDeath- 23h ago
I’m not a regular listener of the podcast, but it was certainly a choice to have them appear to say the least.
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u/kevteeindeed 23h ago
As a regular listener; I believe that the writing has been on the wall for the last couple of episodes. It’s been a big shift for Craig since he’s moved to the US, at least I think so anyway.
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u/Background-Mud7121 22h ago
What do you mean? I'm not a regular listener.
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u/kevteeindeed 22h ago
I mean since watching the show ive picked up on subtle vibe changes, and in my judgement being in America full time has had an influence on Craig as a result
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u/Background-Mud7121 22h ago
Interesting. Sounds like the danny worsnop effect lol
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u/kevteeindeed 22h ago
Oof my bro idk if it’s that cringey
He’s new here so we will see 💅 🐸 🍵
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u/LiesOfSerpents- 22h ago
Craig being in a band like Stray from the Path, yet interviewing people like Kublai Khan, or Slaughter to Prevail, obviously shows that it’s all performative and he doesn’t actually give a shit.
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u/ItsNoblesse 20h ago
Yeah this is more and more the vibe i'm getting unfortunately. Whether he reneged on his values or never held them that strongly to begin with, it sucks either way
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u/LiesOfSerpents- 20h ago
Asking an active transphobe, if they’re transphobic, and just accepting no as an answer means he either, does not know anything about the situation, and is just trying to give a soft ball interview on something he doesn’t know the depth of, or he is just straight up spineless.
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u/Soupjam_Stevens 22h ago edited 22h ago
Every single day of my life I successfully avoid spending time with nazis in a personal or professional capacity, and so far I've found that a really easy bar to clear. Kinda weird that so many people in this scene can't seem to manage that
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u/LiesOfSerpents- 20h ago edited 19h ago
Yet everytime people gatekeep this scene, people in this sub throw a tantrum.
It’s just a fact that the further you get away from the hardcore side of things, the more Nazi’s start showing up, but god forbid people actually try keep the scene tied close to hardcore, that’s just being elitist.
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u/sock_with_a_ticket 19h ago
I've never knowingly been in contact with anyone even accused of being a Nazi, let alone someone who openly admits to having been part of a group and tattooed one of their symbols on themselves.
And that has required basically no effort on my part, it is not hard to avoid these people.
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u/Trimshot 23h ago
Yeah I saw that episode came up and was like “well that certainly was a choice.”
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u/kevteeindeed 23h ago
I knew it was about to pop off. It’s not my business here but I’m hella curious as to how the other members of stray are feeling about it. Idek if it’s really any of their business what Craig does, but then again their image is tied to Craig in a way.
I hate to say it but perhaps it’s just a money grab for views and content controversy 🤷♂️ I’m new to the scene drama and don’t know all the details either.
I made this post here to learn more about it, as well as looking these things up for myself now.
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u/NickPookie93 Metalcore President 23h ago edited 22h ago
"Are you homophobic? "No"
"Are you a nazi?" "No"
Wow just like that Alex is a good guy now 👍
Oh, wait
Anyone who continues to work with Ronnie Radke is not a good person
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u/shadowmoses7 22h ago
Your post is hilariously cringe
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u/FidelCastroSuperfan 22h ago
What about their comment is cringey
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u/shadowmoses7 22h ago
"AnYoNe wHo WoRks WitH X" is getting ridiculous. You people who virtue signal on reddit are a bunch of children. Grow up
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u/LiesOfSerpents- 22h ago edited 21h ago
I’m sorry that I’m an Australian, and that I can’t call Craig a no morals, spineless dickhead in person, believe me, I would.
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u/Br0dobaggins 22h ago
And the people who equate everyone calling others out for being shitty people to "virtue signalers" are exhausting.
It may come as a surprise to you, but not everyone likes to remain silent and shrug it off when someone is a piece of shit just because they make music some people may like.
People speak up because they're sick of this shit. I speak up in my daily life too, and sure as fuck not just on reddit. You have no actual valid defense so you just resort to the same tired "tHaTs ViRtUe SiGnAlInG" complaint because you can't comprehend that not everyone is okay cosigning, or at the very least ignoring, problematic and shitty people in a scene that matters a lot to many of us.
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u/Soupjam_Stevens 22h ago
People like the dude you're replying to are just fundamentally incapable of even imagining caring about someone besides themselves, so they think anyone else who appears to must be faking it
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u/Br0dobaggins 22h ago
Unfortunately, very true. As soon as someone calls people out for being shitty, some knuckle dragger has to come along and call the people doing the calling out "virtue signalers". Like no, we just aren't ignorant cunts, my guy.
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u/ItsNoblesse 23h ago
His little "oops my bad, I take responsibility" isn't good enough when you spent years saying you were rolling with neo-Nazis. Active, consistent anti-fascist work from Alex and STP is the bare minimum that anyone should expect from them.
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u/DirEnGreymon 22h ago
Actual anti-fascist work, or Bolshevik work? The latter is often what is meant by the former. What would that look like? Also, can it ever be “good enough” for the dissenting voices, or will there always be hate in their hearts for him as a result of his past (i.e. is there any point in him changing if there is no prospect of forgiveness for him)? Not that he actually owes anyone an apology, because despite distastefulness, there are no victims to apologize to.
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u/ItsNoblesse 21h ago
What do you mean exactly by Bolshevik work? Because using Bolshevik specifically is pretty weird, especially when anti-fascism arose from places like Italy, Germany and Slovenia in the 1920s, as well as the US, UK and famously Spain in the 1930s.
Anti-fascist work is exactly what it sounds like, working against Fascism. You can describe Fascism by the dictionary definition as
"A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism."
Or you can use a more thorough definition such as Umberto Eco's Ur-Fascism
STP would have to at minimum be active in encouraging support for, and actively engaging with anti-fascist platforms across the world, consistently promote anti-fascist and inclusive rhetoric at their shows, and completely sever ties with right-wing and bigoted parts of the scene (their collaborations with Ronnie Radke as just one example).
There are absolutely victims to apologise to, do you think he was just chilling with his finger up his ass while smoking a cigar when he was hanging out in Russian neo-Nazi circles? Any amount of endorsement or positive repetition of Nazi rhetoric, ideology, or symbology should require significant apology.
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u/DirEnGreymon 21h ago
I mean like that we see from the modern American ANTIFA: calling themselves “anti-fascist”—which they are, to be fair, but they also push a communist agenda under the ANTIFA brand, which goes being simply being anti-fascist. Is it enough for Alex to be against fascism, or must he turn himself into a communist to be forgiven?
Also, if you would: please name the victims of Alex’s neo-Nazi past. However evil it is, without a victim, an apology is not needed. Should Drew York be made to apologize for the actions of Mao and Stalin?
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u/ItsNoblesse 20h ago
You have such a warped definition of political terms lmao, what kind of 'communism' are 'antifa' in the US pushing? Also I'd love to see the quotes of Drew York advocating for either Stalin or Mao lmao. You don't need to have a direct hate crime victim for an apology to be necessary; Alex Terrible had a part to play in spreading and furthering fascist ideology and he should have to make amends for that.
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u/DirEnGreymon 20h ago
Cultural Marxism (inb4 “define that” or “conspiracy theory”). I would love to see the quotes of Alex advocating for either Hitler or Mussolini. Also, forcing someone to “make amends?” Yeah, that is mighty Bolshevist of you.
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u/ItsNoblesse 20h ago
I mean yes you should define the terms you use, and thanks for letting me know you're either a Jordan Peterson fan or an out and about antisemite, or at least [gullible enough to fall for far-right spooks].(https://web.archive.org/web/20111124045123/http://cms.skidmore.edu/salmagundi/backissues/168-169/martin-jay-frankfurt-school-as-scapegoat.cfm)
P.S. brother I am entirely anti-state, I am no more a fan of Stalin than I am of any capitalist state.
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u/DirEnGreymon 19h ago
I am neither a Jordan Peterson fan nor anti-Semitic. And let it be noted: I never once accused you of—or intended to imply your belonging to—any particular political ideology. Nor have I stated mine, though I imagine most have well inferred my belonging to a particular belief system and care not to hear otherwise.
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u/ItsNoblesse 19h ago
You used a dogwhistle used almost exclusively by either fans of that individual, or the far-right. Cultural Marxism as a term is literally just an evolution of the Cultural Bolshevism antisemitic conspiracy theory pushed by the Nazis in the 1930s. Like I said, either you are embedded within those groups to some extent, or you have allowed yourself to be entirely swallowed by their propaganda.
I am not 'accusing' you of anything, and you're not more moral for failing to state what exactly your belief system is. It's a convenient get out of jail card so you never have to actually argue why something is good or bad, because you "don't actually believe that".
When you use a right-wing dogwhistle whilst degrading anti-fascist efforts, I am going to assume you're familiar with it from a right-wing standpoint because that is a reasonable assumption to make.
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u/DirEnGreymon 19h ago
A “dogwhistle” that was once simply accepted as fact before being proscribed by the very same people who push it. And I decry this as I do the capitalist BS ruining my country today, too, because I have zero tolerance for the shit either side has to offer. As for me? I am probably the least moral person here; never once did I try to claim otherwise. I have my beliefs and I do not hide them, but I also do not state them simply for the sake of it. You can assume why I am familiar with the things I am all you would like, but my shelves have works from socialists (more than probably anything, actually), Marx himself, anti-Marxists, Zionists, anti-Semites, and everything in between. I try to be at least somewhat well versed in it all.
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u/5carPile-Up 23h ago
Two men from different cultures addressed the elephant in the room in a mature way, Alex taking accountability and all.
Good to see. Huge respect to them both
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u/Soupjam_Stevens 22h ago
you actually don't need to sit down and have "mature" conversations with nazis, that is actually just not a worthy goal
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u/kevteeindeed 20h ago
Not to mention he also had David Gunn from King810 as a guest too, another controversial character
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u/PositiveMetalhead 23h ago edited 23h ago
It’s interesting after the Kublai Khan episode too. I was expecting him to not address the issues at all but instead he asked specifically about them as well as bringing up Kublai Khan again 😆
I don’t listen to Slaughter to Prevail at all so I don’t have much of an opinion on them but the reasoning made sense. Like he was younger and dumb. But he’s also not one who thinks of politics much. Different cultures and such too.
Edit: ok I’m not saying I agree with the guy. I’m just saying what was talked about on the episode 🙄
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u/ItsNoblesse 20h ago
Like he was younger and dumb.
Yeah most people are dumb when they're young but the vast majority of them don't get into neo-Nazi groups, that's no excuse.
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u/PositiveMetalhead 20h ago
Nope It’s not an excuse, and it doesn’t excuse it. But it is the reason given. I think kids and young men get manipulated into joining up with bad people all the time when they’re feeling alone and vulnerable. Whether we should hold that against them their whole lives or refuse to allow them to have positions of influence after that is a different issue. And what he specifically needs to do to make it ok is going to be different for everyone.
Like I said, I don’t personally listen to this band but I did listen to this podcast so that’s all I’m really commenting on 😝
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u/ItsNoblesse 19h ago
I feel like this equating of having an 'edgy' phase or hanging out with a bad crowd as a teenager with joining literal neo-Nazi organisations in your 20s is completely diminishing and infantalising how serious running with actual neo-Nazis is.
Again, many many people are lonely and vulnerable, but they do not join groups with genocidal ideologies. Stop giving men (it seems women are almost never given this level of grace) this free pass for abhorrent behaviours and values because they're 'lonely'.
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u/PositiveMetalhead 19h ago
I’m not giving him a free pass.. I’m saying this literally happens all the time. I didn’t say a bad crowd as in some street gang or something I said bad people. Whether they’re nazis or some other hateful group it happens all the time. Nothing excuses it but it’s also a legit problem that’s a lot more complex than just “bad person is bad and will never be good”.
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u/aletheiatic 17h ago
This sort of take misses the point. Yes, not everyone who feels marginalized or alienated will adopt right-wing beliefs, and it’s not like it’s a natural consequence of those feelings. But we can’t ignore that it does happen, baffling and distasteful though it may be. And once we do recognize that right-wing radicalization happens and is a problem that needs to be addressed (more right-wingers in the world is bad), we need to also recognize that just saying “well they don’t have any good reason to fall into that pipeline, they must have always been secretly terrible and are lost causes” is not a winning strategy (you’re obviously not explicitly saying that here, but it’s a common sentiment expressed by people who say what you’re saying here).
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u/kevteeindeed 23h ago
he’s had Kublai Khan on twice so 🤷♂️
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u/PositiveMetalhead 23h ago
I believe the first time was before the instagram thing
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u/FreeMindOpenSpirit 23h ago
What’s the Instagram thing? I’m out of the loop
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u/PositiveMetalhead 22h ago
He liked a pro trump instagram post. It blew up a little more because the guy posted this video doing the nazi salute or something and people mistook it to be Matt himself in the video 😅 according to Craig in this episode though Matt doesn’t actually know the guy. He didn’t say he liked it by accident or anything though so I don’t know, it’s still a little vague and sketchy imo. He just sorta refused to address it
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u/kevteeindeed 23h ago
I don’t know exactly when all that went down, I’m just saying KK has been on the Downbeat twice
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22h ago
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u/Br0dobaggins 22h ago edited 21h ago
He's had known Neo-nazi ties and had a black sun tattoo for a long time. The black sun is objectively a Nazi SS symbol that did not, despite what others try to claim, exist before WWII. He finally covered it up, and his story changed multiple times so it's hard to pin down exactly why he covered it up; did he actually change his ways, or did he realize it was preventing him from reaching a larger audience?
Even if you give him the benefit of the doubt and say he did reform his racist views, he's still a bigoted prick. He whines about "masculine family values" and echoes the same stupid far right talking points that somehow transgender and LGTBQ communities are "indoctrinating" youth. No one is indoctrinating children. Teaching our kids to be accepting of trans people, etc. isn't "being exposed to transgender shit" any more than someone back in the 60s saying maybe sharing a water fountain with black people isn't such a bad thing. The people who get mad at that kind of thing and say it's "indoctrination" are just outing themselves as being ignorant and willfully hateful towards a marginalized group that is actively being targeted in modern society.
It's the ignorant fucks like Alex and those that support him that keep politicizing something that should just be basic human decency.
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u/FidelCastroSuperfan 17h ago
I mean, that should be enough for any decent person to write him off. Transphobia and homophobia are both solid reasons to dislike someone.
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u/HelpIThinkImASoup x 22h ago
Took me way too long to realize STP is Slaughter to Prevail and not Stone Temple Pilots, lol.