Maybe I'm just old but when I listen to a modern pop station it feels like every song is "music for teens". Are you telling me adults are the sole reason there are 4 songs from a cartoon in the top 10 this week?
You are right, but the context many of you are missing is that Dupri spent the early and mid 2000s pushing teen centric rap and r&b. Not just his own music, but multiple other acts, the most notable being Lil Bow Wow. That was his lane, and it did work. It was corny, but it worked.
(Edit: And Kriss Kross, my bad, yeesh)
We didn't really have digital music then. We did, but physical was still dominant by far, because we didn't have MP3 players, smart phones, or digital infotainment in cars. You had to play a disc or tape to listen to music on the move.
So parents had WAY more control over what their kids listened to. A lot of parents would not permit kids to listen to rap, of any kind. Some of us had parents that saw the value in letting music introduce complex topics to us, but that was a minority.
What Dupri did was make rap accessible to those kids. The kids who didn't get to listen to real rap. The musically sheltered. And this helped bring hip hop to millions of new listeners worldwide, and helped bring it into the forefront of popular culture in a very short time. He basically sanitized rap for commercial family audiences. Granted, we now get to deal with white kids from flyover exurbs preaching about the supremacy of Trap, but overall, it did serve a net benefit to rap. As an industry and a culture.
But the market for family friendly rap dried up when digital became dominant. Parents couldn't monitor anymore. They couldn't sensor. So kids started listening to real rap. And now that's the main demo for shoot em up, gang goofy, drug dealing fuckery.
This is also kinda why Will Smith has worn out his welcome, he can't do thug or conscious shit, but nobody wants family friendly rap anymore, there's zero market for it.
I was a pre teen and teen at this time and have been HEAVY into the underground rap scene my whole life, including as an artist. Most of my friends are fellow or former underground artists. We all thought his shit was whack, but that's because we got to listen to real rap as kids. Not everybody got that. That's what he's talking about about more specifically. The family audience rap and R&B.
So that's what he's talking about. He's wrong. And you're still right. The industry has always sold most of its shit to kids. They did it to our parents and to us. Still doing it. I have a teen and she be listening to some dog food lmao. The market is still there, but not for clean rap, and he can't seem to grasp why, even though he's been an innovator in this shit for decades now
Your comment is great it, JD is wildly successful at talent scouting and producing! Your “spent the early 2000s…” line had me have to show my age, he’s been dropping kids bop hits since I was a kid while also producing bangers like Mariah’s always be my baby and a bunch of ushers catalogue.
Oh yeah there's a whole other convo to be made about his influence outside of this, guy has been in the game since he was a child ffs. He's had his hands in a lot besides this and is one of the bigger influences in hip hop history, and he's one of the reasons Atlanta is the black Nashville it's become.
He could've come back just fine with family friendly rap if people wanted that or there was a market, but there's not
He could have gone political or social but people wouldn't have bought that it was genuine
He boxed himself into a demo that doesn't exist anymore and no possible transition can work for him.
Mos Def isnt young, hasn't released in forever, went Hollywood, and he could still drop a record people would actually try. Because he didn't box himself in
To your point, I also don’t think Will Smith is trying to be “relavent” in music. I think he just wanted to put out music and connect with his fans that rock with him.
A bunch of old rappers have done this recently. LL Cool J, Clipse, Ghostface Killa, Nas, etc.
Just making music for the love of it and releasing it to the niche audience of people who that serves.
If you honestly think Will Smith who is almost 60 had any aspirations that he would be top tier rapper in 2025, I think we will have to disagree on that.
I think he wanted to connect with his fans and do something that was always his first love.
Do I think he wants attention? Sure, he’s Will Smith. But I think he wants attention from the fans who rock with him. He’s not trying to appeal to gen z lol.
I don't think he had any aspirations to be a rapper in 2025 at all, top tier or otherwise. This is all happening because the slap has ruined his movie career. People forget, he finally won the Oscar he had been aggressively campaigning for for decades that night. We are supposed to be in Will Smith's Oscar Bait Movie Era Pt. II, only this time the movies would be headlined by 'Academy Award Winner (Best Actor) - Will Smith'. That isn't happening. He's not appealing to ANY generation specifically - he is trying everything he has left to appeal to anyone at all who might be willing to give him the time of day, and he doesn't have many options to do that with.
He just starred in a hit movie last year that grossed 400 million worldwide. If his movie career was as dead as you and he didn’t appeal to any generation, why did the movie do very well amongst black and Latino audiences under 35?
I think the only people that still care about the slap is white audiences.
Bad Boys is an established IP with a built in audience, even going back there is a sign of desperation - and it still has not improved the general perception of him at all. What else, besides Bad Boys 4, noteworthy as he done since the slap? Any Oscar movies? Any awards attention? Anything people liked?
Dog, most actors are doing established IPs lol. Also Bad Boys is an established IP because of Will Smith(and Martin Lawrence) lol. That movie flops if audiences dislike Will Smith still.
Thanks, it's one of my little areas of obsession. I've been an underground local rapper on and off for 20 years now, so the history is something I feel like I'm obligated to know.
I forgot Kriss Kross tho and people aren't too pleased with that lmao
This whole thread had me looking up "Funky Worm" by the Ohio Players and finally finally learning that high pitched synth sound on so many tracks (including "Jump") was originally an ARP Pro Soloist synthesizer.
I know three things. Rap, motorsports, and baseball. The history matters to me, so I try to be educated on that. I also went to school for sociology and cultural anthropology, and all three subjects were significant areas of study for me.
If you like this you might like my own music. I got links up you know where.
What Dupri did was make rap accessible to those kids. The kids that didn’t get to listen to real rap.
The conception that Bow Wow, Kris Kros and others operating in that space weren’t “real rap” is the EXACT reason why this subgenre doesn’t exist anymore. It’s frankly more than a little gatekeeping, and it deprives the market of really talented young artists who could be learning their art and building careers that produce great music.
Say what you will, but Jump still slaps. I can still probably remember all the lyrics to Basketball if I heard it. Are these artists going to introduce kids to socioeconomic realities, the racial divide, and the dichotomy between making a name for yourself and being true to your roots? No, but they’re not meant to. Their job was to prime kids for the musical theory a fundamentals behind rap and hip hop so they’d be primed to understand those themes when they were old enough.
That doesn’t make those artists “not real rap”, it just makes them “rap with different goals”. And the fact that we’ve chosen not to see value in that is a loss
Dude, well said. I grew up from 80s Run DMC, Beastie Boys, LL and through that "teen rap" phase into the early 2000s and you are absolutely right. The "underground" stuff was like Big Daddy Kane, Gamg Starr and Tupac (even Digital Underground) and I loved that shit. It felt a little bit taboo because as a white kid I learned about racial tensions and inequality in a way I related to through the art. The teen centric stuff was a great way to bridge the gap, even though yeah, some was pretty corny. (Kriss Kross, ABC, Fresh Prince) anyway, thanks.
It's crazy now to call it that, but that Death Row shit really was underground at first. It's such a part of the story of rap that we kinda forget that it was not only indie but super counter culture. It's become mainstream over the years but it really wasn't when Suge first started it.
I was more talking about shit like Mac Dre, Mob Figaz, Rich The Factor, Fat Tone, C-Bo, shit of that nature tbh
I'm not familiar with those names, I was into like Kool Moe Dee, Wrecks N Effect, Bel Biv Devoe, anything Teddy Riley touched really, Kid N Play, aand also like NWA, Ice-T and his crew's stuff, EPMD, man, I could probably name a hundred.
But yeah, the early Death Row was counterculture in my world and we ate it up.
I have a playlist of probably a few thousand songs from that era that I was a huge fan of:
They do. Huntrix and Saja Boys are fucking dominating the charts. They hold 4 slots of the billboard top 10, and 7 total spots in the top 25. That’s insane.
There’s so many 30-40 something (mostly) women in my life that love those songs so I do think it has crossover appeal but yeah I’d think majority kids? Don’t know if we get ratings like that
What “mumble rappers” are even big enough to chart anymore other than Carti? Maybe Future or Travis Scott but I feel like they’ve been making music long enough to have older fans now.
They don’t but the comment they replied to mentioned “modern pop station”. Modern Rap station aren’t playing mumble rap they’re only playing what charts. But Kendrick and Drake probably were almost certainly the most listened to artists by teens last year so I think charts do change what they listen to.
Tbf Taylor swift the teen pop music creator of this current generation doesn’t even make teen music anymore. I would say 21 pilots or ajr but a lot of their songs are about adulting and being depressed
What does being a cartoon have to do with it? I don't have any attachment to what you're referencing but the songs either slap or they don't, coming from a family movie doesn't diminish that.
To be clear, they are still definitely aimed at Teens.
No, that cartoon just happens to be full of fucking bangers and is like the biggest movie in the world right now. It only aired two days in theaters and topped the box office charts. It’s Netflix’s most streamed movie.
And it’s just a ton of fun, but also has some huge emotional swings. Go watch it. Let yourself be carried away by the music, even if it’s not your style.
As the onion said, “Who is K-Pop Demon Hunters For?” “anyone who can get past the title”.
I don't doubt any of that, but I was just using KPDH as an example of music that teens are clearly listening to because it's from a very teen-appropriate cartoon musical. I said "sole reason" in my post because I know adults are also listening to it.
Unabashed 30+ yr old here who’s pretty much guaranteed to have the entire soundtrack on my Spotify most listened this year. So there’s least one ‘adult’ is pumping those numbers up.
The sing along event they did in theaters nearby had an entire row of adults going wild too (in the showing I went to).
Adults most definitely aren’t the sole reason the ‘cartoon’ songs are popular, but it would be a little disingenuous to imply they’re for kids or teens, or that adults don’t enjoy that type of music. Part of their popularity is because they stand well on their own without the context of ‘cartoon’.
The irony being that the genesis of K-Pop came from a failed South Korean rock musician that decided to play ball with the local record industry and brought in American producers that were otherwise going nowhere in the US.
Seeing the full context of the quote, I can see where he's coming from. I definitely remember during the heyday of 106 & Park or TRL, how there were a bunch of music acts specifically marketed to teens. While you do have teens obviously still listening to genres like pop and rap amongst many musical genres, there's not really that many artists specifically marketed to teens, it's basically just everyone collectively listening to the same stuff, I think I've seen the comparison also made to how teens and adults equally watch certain streamers.
“…I got a 14-year-old daughter that basically has nobody to listen to,” he explained. “She’s out here listening to stthat she ain’t supposed to be listening to on TikTok, right? She’s dancing to stshe ain’t supposed to be dancing to on TikTok.”
That’s how children are consuming media in the brainrot era.
Reddits formatting ruins the quote and I don’t care enough to fix it.
Teenagers have been listening to shit they’re not supposed to listen to forever. I was 12 listening to 2 Live Crew Wu Tang and Akynele tapes copied from friends whose parents didn’t care about the parental advisory label and bought it for them.
Sure, but his point is there isn’t a popular alternative right now. As soon as a “kid” starts making music they’re encouraged to make adult music. He’s speaking about mentoring Bow Wow & Kris Kross who were encouraged to be kids and make music about what they were actually going through. Lil Romeo was similar.
True, but I think the argument here is that there was still a wide variety of media being curated strictly for teens and young adults that they COULD listen to. That’s not really the case anymore.
I was watching South Park at 14, I know different parents have different standards but teens listening to music that deals with adult subjects and watching tv shows and movies with adult subjects has been a thing for decades at this point
The rest of the quote is basically “I’m in Magic City (ATL Strip Club) & this is what I’m making music for. I can’t do everything and also mentor another kid group to make kid music. I’ve done that already”
1.2 million monthly listeners. I’m sure some of those are teenagers and your comment was a great way to show you completely missed the point of the quote/article
Big artists just aren't falling off anymore. I think it's more that than there not being exciting acts for young people (there are)
Rick Beato talked about it, all the most streamed artists are in their 30s and above. I think the internet and social media has made it so that the Bruno Mars and Taylor Swift types always have a persistent digital presence and that makes it difficult for new entrants to penetrate
Also Dupri if there is a so called problem, the one thing I'm sure of is Dupri does not have the solution. Lmao
i think the turning point was the pandemic. New artists have had a hard time breaking out & blowing up past their 10 seconds of fame on tiktok. Meanwhile established pop brands have become much more savvy & learned to use social media to keep their maturing audience of Millenials & GenXers engaged. It also helps that social media is at a standstill, there really hasn't been any new viral platforms since tiktok took over musical.ly 7 yrs ago.
There was no bitterness in his comment. You can watch the full clip. His point is that back in the days labels would help mentor and develop younger talent while allowing them to make music that was focused on their age group (Bow Wow, Kris Kross, Lil Romeo, Chris Brown etc.) and now no one is doing that. So now you have 12-13 Y.Os listening to nothing but adult music.
& Taylor Swift is 35 Y.O. Saying she makes music exclusively for teens is wild.
What would music marketed towards teens even look like today? This is an interesting discussion but I’m 19 and don’t think it matters that much. Younger me wouldn’t care about this at all. With music being so accessible, teens listen to whatever tf we want to, unless we have parents who are very strict. And not every teen today is listening to explicit music only geared towards adults. A lot of my music has been fairly neutral for YEARS in that it can appeal to both adults and teens. It comes down to the individual and what they enjoy hearing.
Also. To be honest I don’t think “teen music” like back in the day would be well-received by teens of today. It’d likely be labelled as corny. Idk man just make good music that resonates with people, who cares that much about marketing.
I do recognize that. It isn’t subtle; It feels like everything is an ad these days. In regards to music I still do not care about marketing though, I’ll listen to whatever I want. And I’m saying Dupri doesn’t need to care about it either.
And of them who is releasing music with subject matter that teens relate to or are about teenage problems? Yeah it’s popular amongst teens, but similarly we don’t have teen or kid oriented social media anymore, so consequently both teens and adults are using the same apps.
I think the point might be that some of those artists used to make music for teens, but pop music is way more explicit these days. TS has plenty of songs with multiple 4 letter words (often in the chorus) throughout her last 3-4 albums. Chappell Roan and Sabrina Carpenter’s music is very sexually explicit. Recent pop music is better targeted at young adults with the current stars.
Apt is a drinking game meant to be played with friends. It could function as a teen song but Rose is a woman in her late 20s so it’s probably a drinking song lol
dude is an old man screaming at the clouds. He's clamoring for innocent teeny-bopper tunes that New Edition, NKOTB, Lil Bow, Aaron Carter & Hanson used to churn out. But those days are over. Back then kids were sequestered to Nickolodeon & Disney Radio. Today they not only consume adult fare but they shape the tastes of what's a banger. Much of the vapid tiktok hits exist because they cater to the teen market. Even middle-aged Taylor Swift aims for this demo. She literally said to her teen fans that your English teacher & gym teacher are getting married.
Teens aren’t the largest demo, their parents don’t have as much money to give them to spend as in the past, also the cultural reality of the world is different so young adults, not teens is where the action is. Actual young people used to drive the currents of culture and now they don’t, they only consume.
“I can’t do everything” his last production credit was 2001. I wonder if he produced a song for an artist that’s currently popular, instead of wondering why the kids don’t want to listen to artists that all teaming together up on nostalgia tours, and the song went viral if he’d have the same opinion.
Defining the word “Teens” is the real problem. Quite a large percentage of teenagers want so desperately to be considered adults that marketing to their age group is almost worthless.” … just make all the media for 19 year olds, that should cover both the teens and the young adults.”
Is it odd if a band or artist doesn't mature with their music? Do you really want to market to teens at 50-60+? If you're around for that long being an artist.
“Nobody’s trying to give them New Edition. Nobody’s trying to give them Bow. Nobody’s trying to give them Kris Kross,” Dupri responded. “They don’t care.”
Yeah, today’s 15yo’s really want to hear Kriss Kross rap about missing buses.
they were doing great for a while but all the depressed, angsty teen rappers offed themselves or got shot or put in prison. The teen generation lost all their stars right before COVID - XXXtentacion, Juice WRLD, Lil Pump, Tekashi69 etc.
Yeah, they rather wanna hear Cardi B rapping about her twat or another one of the gazillion male rappers tellin how they slapped dat hoe. That is what today´s (black) 15yo mostly have, thats exactly his problem.
Me as well and i can confirm that it was absotely not on the level of today, let alone as common as today. If girls were twerking back then as well, it wasnt being done so brazen like today, for example. Rap wasnt the "default" genre either and if you wanted it nasty, you had to go for 2LiveCrew, If you wanted gangsta, you had to go with NWA, more or less. Today "everyone" is both at same time, to paint an exaggerated picture (but also rich as fuck).
It doesnt mean he is right, but his point is very understandable.
I respect your opinion. I’ll have to disagree about it not being as common as today and I certainly wouldn’t agree that everyone is both - I feel like Hip Hop has evolved so much and offers a massive amount of intellectual content if you just look for it - but I do understand your viewpoint.
You're not wrong, I don't know why the poster is claiming there was as much derogatory back in the 80s and 90s as there is now... This generation is the worst of inappropriate music, W.A.P
bro listen to some missy elliot or eve lyrics some time.
The 80s gave us 'club' rap, 90s gave us literally the entire 'prostitute rap' culture, the 2000s turned it into 'pimp' culture. It was there the entire time.
A. Yeah, they are. I have one. She listens to shit I can't even identify, dawg. Still the main demo being catered to, always has been, always will be. You just got passed up this time.
B. I do respect that you made rap accessible to kids who had parents that wouldn't let them listen to real rap, there really was value in that introductory type of rap, but, that shit ran it's course long ago, and you was kinda whack, fam. Like me and the homies were your target market at the time you had multiple acts pumping hard, and we thought all that shit was weak. But, like I said, if you had parents that let you listen to real rap, and didn't put musical blinders on you, it wasn't hitting. We got to listen to real rap, and most kids these days do, thanks to digital, so the market just isn't there anymore, dude. You had your time, boss. It was a solid run and you brought hip hop to millions of kids. Let it go and be rich brobro
lol I know hella women who parents let them listen to “real rap” but still loved people like b2k, Omarion, bow wow, Romeo. “Real rap” and teenie stuff can coexist.
Yeah and this whole thing was about teens listening to those artist.
Maybe in your area, but in Oakland most black girls I knew listened to e40, pac, etc. and still listened to bow wows etc. the millennium tour would constantly be sold out. But that’s just my part of the world I understand where you are that was different.
1.2k
u/ScaryGent 5d ago
Maybe I'm just old but when I listen to a modern pop station it feels like every song is "music for teens". Are you telling me adults are the sole reason there are 4 songs from a cartoon in the top 10 this week?