r/Music Oct 14 '17

Article Woman who accused rapper Nelly of rape tells police to drop investigation.

[removed]

17.1k Upvotes

2.1k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

122

u/ChemicalRascal Oct 14 '17 edited Oct 14 '17

Can't you press charges while requesting anonymity?

EDIT: Anonymity in the press, ya twats, not from the accused.

68

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '17

I thought that was the issue - that the police violated this somewhere along the line.

56

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '17

That violates the basic legal right to face your accuser.

14

u/WorkoutProblems Oct 14 '17

Just curious, how do camera tickets work then?

44

u/strikethroughthemask Oct 14 '17

I don't know about every area but they were heavily debated and eventually outlawed where I live.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '17 edited Oct 29 '17

[deleted]

6

u/Loop_Within_A_Loop Oct 14 '17

they are the accuser.

The issue is, that accuser would need to go to the court date for every ticket they issue and face their accuser.

It's not practical. The municipalities that decide to do this could decide to keep doing it, and just not have the accuser show up, and thus get every ticket that is contested automatically dismissed.

At least that's my understanding.

2

u/gokutheguy Oct 14 '17

In my district, if you bring it to court, you'll generally get off because the cop doesn't show up.

1

u/strikethroughthemask Oct 14 '17

I think part of the argument against them is that in some cases it's a private company maintaining the cameras and reviewing the photos?

31

u/ShineeChicken Oct 14 '17

In a lot of places they don't work, and for precisely that reason

3

u/WorkoutProblems Oct 14 '17

Any idea why they work in NYC?

23

u/ecodude74 Oct 14 '17

Because they make so much money for the city that they can afford superior lawyers to keep any suits against the cameras pending for decades.

7

u/vicarofyanks Oct 14 '17

Not enough people drive themselves to cause an uproar over it is my first guess

22

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '17

You do have the right to challenge the camera ticket in court. If it comes down to it, you can even get the officer who signed your ticket to face you in court. But for most people it's not worth it....the camera provides pretty compelling evidence of your guilt.

There is a case where a defendant refused to pay the ticket and argued that the state had to prove that he was in fact driving the car at the time. Eventually the state dropped it because it wasn't worth it. But for the defendant, it was a very time consuming process and if I recall correctly, he was a lawyer. All that time and effort was spent to get out of $100-200 ticket.

10

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '17 edited Nov 12 '17

[deleted]

14

u/golfzerodelta Oct 14 '17

I feel like this violates the 5th Amendment. The State has to bring proof it was you, not you having to prove it wasn't you.

1

u/Phibriglex Oct 14 '17

I don't think it's technically a criminal case, in which case you could be compelled to divulge information. Maybe depends on state/province

0

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '17 edited Nov 12 '17

[deleted]

10

u/DeepFriedDresden Oct 14 '17

Uh, so lets say you get carjacked by a guy who just robbed a store. Are you now an accessory to the crime? I mean you are legally responsible for your car after all.

Or how about a gun. Lets say you own a gun. A person you thought you could trust knows where you keep it. He takes it without your knowledge and kills a man. Are you also a murderer?

4

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '17 edited Nov 12 '17

[deleted]

1

u/DeepFriedDresden Oct 14 '17

Oh so your car is just legally registered then. Its not your legal responsibility to make sure criminals dont use your property for a crime.

→ More replies (0)

3

u/brycedriesenga Brother Adams Oct 14 '17

"Weird, must've been stolen. I just know it was missing for a few hours that day and then brought back."

6

u/superstarasian Oct 14 '17

You’re not obligated to answer snitch tickets. In CA, they were printed to look like real tickets (ie a summons to appear), part of why they removed red light cameras in many cities.

Read the fucking constitution btw.

10

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '17

[deleted]

2

u/superstarasian Oct 15 '17

Biggest problem was that the vast majority of tickets were rolling right turns at low speeds, something most people find to be “okay” and don’t associate with running red lights.

21

u/davvii Oct 14 '17

Where I'm from they were ruled unconstitutional.

A family friend, who happens to be a judge that decided one of the two cases that declared them unconstitutional, told me that it'd "be a cold day in hell" before he allowed them. He said they're blatantly unconstitutional then gave a lengthy reply why. Won't deny I sorta zoned out halfway through ... damn ADHD.

From what I did manage to gather, though, the local governments were trying to argue that the cameras made the streets safer despite study after study proving this was wrong. IANAL but apparently that means they're used solely for tax collection purposes and, as such, they have to prove the money is being used to make the streets safer. Not surprisingly, the governments were unable to do that so the court said, "go fuck yourself" and last I heard they were working their way through the appellate process.

7

u/Jacksonteague Oct 14 '17

In my area rear endings at red lights went up because people slam on their breaks and because of many reasons that prevented the tickets from being pursued to a fine and had to be thrown out the city still had to pay a huge fee to the camera companies that would have partially been paid by tickets. A lot of the tickets during the afternoon were at an angle where the suns reflection covered up the drivers face was one reason

2

u/davvii Oct 14 '17

Well, iirc that was the whole point of challenging them in court. Not only did they not lower accidents, in many, they increased them.

The corner in which the plaintiff received their ticket the accidents went up. He was sorta laughing about that. I'm one of those where I only remember bits and pieces of conversations but I remember him saying something like, "Some attorneys choose losing cases just because they like seeing their names in print."

1

u/3xxLoser Oct 14 '17

In Springfield Mo. they are not able to use the cameras for traffic tickets anymore. There are cameras at every major intersection and they used them for literally just a few months. Public had an uproar and they fairly quickly just stopped using them. After all that money and time (our money as taxpayers) wasted... they're still up and they're still active to spy on us, but they can't use them for Traffic Court.

1

u/--IIII--------IIII-- Oct 14 '17

Tickets are not criminal.

1

u/Hu5k3r Oct 14 '17

In my state, it reads right on the back of the citation received in the mail, if you do not pay this ticket, nothing will happen. I'm not quoting, but that is the gist of it.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '17

Traffic violations are often infractions, and somehow not criminal matters. No idea how that works though.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '17

You still have the right to challenge those tickets and face your accuser (the city). Camera doesn't change that.

1

u/gokutheguy Oct 14 '17

In my district they bring in the police officer who signs off on the ticket.

Its legally shakey, but they do it anyway.

1

u/RamblyJambly Oct 14 '17

Usually the person the car is registered to is considered responsible for it.
I think tickets from red light cams are a civil fine since some don't count against your license

16

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '17

Confrontation Clause. The Confrontation Clause of the Sixth Amendment to the United States Constitution provides that "in all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right…to be confronted with the witnesses against him.

5

u/ChemicalRascal Oct 14 '17

What? No. Just in such a way that it's suppressed from the press, Jesus, of course the accused knows who the accuser is.

6

u/massivebrain Oct 14 '17

suppressed from the press? no.

again, 6th amendment:

the accused should enjoy the right to a fair and PUBLIC trial.

there is no suppressing the trial from the press!

13

u/ChemicalRascal Oct 14 '17

Suppression of identity does not a sixth amendment violation make.

6

u/How2999 Oct 14 '17

I don't think it's unreasonable for say a child to have the right not to have their name/picture in the media when they testify in court.

There can be a balance where the media can report the case, sit in the gallery, but not print any information that would identify the witness.

20

u/aleasangria Oct 14 '17

People have the right to face their accuser.

21

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '17

A very important right.

7

u/spaghetti-in-pockets Oct 14 '17

Some people may not like it, but the constitution is beautifully designed.

12

u/El_Barto_227 Oct 14 '17

That would be pretty unfair on the accusee. "Oh yeah, someone's accusin you of X. Won't tell you who it the is, good luck figuring out how to defend yourself without the most basic details of the case!"

4

u/ChemicalRascal Oct 14 '17

What? No. Just in such a way that it's suppressed from the press, Jesus, of course the accused knows who the accuser is.

5

u/nocturne81 Oct 14 '17

What you're asking for here is state-run secret trials. I don't think you want that either.

20

u/ChemicalRascal Oct 14 '17

No, I'm asking for a gag order on an identity. That isn't uncommon, and is often done in cases involving, for example, children. It's also not unheard of in cases involving adults in Australia, which is my frame of reference.

16

u/MrsFlip Oct 14 '17

This is true. The identity of my father was suppressed in the media to protect my sister and I because we were minors at the time of the crimes. This is standard in Australia.

18

u/How2999 Oct 14 '17

And in the UK. Rape victims also have the legal right to anonymity. It's still an open court, anyone can sit in it, but reporting identifiable information on the victim is prohibited.

8

u/roqxendgAme Oct 14 '17

Same where i'm from. Even caselaw issued by the Supreme Court (if the case reaches that far) will usually use aliases like "AAA" to hide the victim's identity.

Edit: even the media are explicitly covered by the statute prohibiting revelation of the identity of victims. So, even if someone lets it slip, media practitioners will remain equally and separately liable for publishing the identity.

11

u/How2999 Oct 14 '17

Not really, the public and press can still sit in the gallery of the court, there is just an injunction prohibiting the printing/reporting of any information that would identify the witness.

4

u/roqxendgAme Oct 14 '17

There are some trials, or portions thereof, that are not made open to the "public" -- for example, where the victim is a minor, the judge may decide to have the victim's testimony be taken in chambers or in an empty courtroom, or the like.

-2

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '17

[deleted]

8

u/dunemafia Oct 14 '17

Not wrong. It would be ridiculous if the accuser was allowed to be anonymous, your defense would be handicapped.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '17

There is no anonymity in the press. The accused has a right to a public trial.

3

u/ChemicalRascal Oct 14 '17

A gag order on the name of the accused is not a sixth-amendment violation, goddamnit.

-1

u/[deleted] Oct 14 '17

[deleted]

2

u/ChemicalRascal Oct 14 '17

So the gag order, right

If you're accused of rape

Are you gonna violate a court-sanctioned gag order