r/Nest • u/sunwise- • 3d ago
Is there any good reason this is happening?
https://i.imgur.com/sgYXQEP.jpeg16
u/KalessinDB Nest Thermostat Generation 3 3d ago
Because the remote server that it's been connecting to for 12 years is being shut down, and it requires connection to that remote server to use the app.
4
u/consultinglove 2d ago
....that's not a good reason. I mean, I'm sure there is a good reason. But that can't be it
- They could migrating the server to GCP
- They could even utilize a serverless environment. It's Google for christs sake, they literally have Cloud Functions. The raw compute cost will be basically nothing at Google's scale
Whatever reason it is, I'm 100% sure it's not a technical reason. It has to be due to business/profitability. Maybe they want to let go of the people supporting the legacy Nest environment. Or they want people to buy the latest version of the products. Or who knows, maybe the older devices can't be secured so they just want to lose the liability related to them
-1
u/Zolks1 2d ago edited 1d ago
I mean yes they could make them be able to connect to a local server you could run but they are 12 years old.
The fact they have been supported for 12 years is pretty crazy when you think about it.
Yes ik if you have one you don't want to lose functionality. But 12 yrs of support is actually pretty good
(Feel free to downvote, but it is true!!)
0
u/TR6lover 1d ago
I don't care if they stop supporting it, but actually bricking the thing for me isn't something I appreciate.
2
1
u/blitzzer_24 1d ago
Nobody bricked anything. They are ceasing the cloud functionality of the device. It still worksasa thermostat. If you want to build your own infrastructure, break it open to put some jank API over top, and then ensure that you're not going blow up your HVAC by putting home grown HVAC control software into your thermostat that is designed to accept remote commands from the platform you designed, built, secured, and then implemented... Then go ahead.
Software is hardish. Good software is very hard. Good, usable, and secure software is haaaaarrrrrd and expensive.
1
u/TR6lover 1d ago
Where did I say anything about me wanting to take it apart and build my own jank system?
My point was that I don't care if they don't do future firmware upgrades or repairs for it - but to take away the wifi connectivity destroys one of the main reasons I purchased it. I have plenty of good old analog thermostats, but that's not why I bought these.
I loved Nest. Google has really fucked it up.
1
u/blitzzer_24 1d ago
But how are you going to control the thermostat. Wi-Fi connections require something to connect to.
In order to stay connected to their servers Google would have to keep supporting that hardware.
1
u/Zolks1 23h ago
The WiFi connections require the cloud to work and control it, without that it can be connected to WiFi and is useless.
And sadly, it's 12 years old, and things move on. That's not Google ruining nest it's just your thermostat is 12 years old
Just accept that it's now too old, and stop blaming it all on Google, nest probably would have done the same. It's 12 year old hardware.
Just get a new one if you need WiFi or go to Tado or something idk
They supported it for 12 years and they could have done a heck of alot less than that. If anything that's good on google for supporting it so long.
6
u/colinstalter 2d ago
Google has ADHD and enjoys abandoning well-loved products and services. Don’t buy google products.
18
u/sunwise- 3d ago
Can’t wait to pay $150 (50% off! If I’m eligible) for a system that works exactly as my current one does.
29
u/LazyJoeJr 3d ago
Suggestion: don’t replace it with more google junk
9
u/sunwise- 3d ago
At this moment I am very receptive to any and all alternatives you suggest.
8
u/LazyJoeJr 3d ago
I’m no expert, but ecobee is a popular alternative. Are there any features in particular you are looking for? I’m sure folks here can make some suggestions based on your needs.
3
u/sunwise- 3d ago
Thank you!
Mostly a thermostat control and fire / C02 dectector, I’m a simple woman.
I was also considering a Ring camera but there is no way now. SimpliSafe’s protection eco system has been really disappointing to me (door camera is awful quality and will pick up a slight breeze but not someone walking up to the door), so any advice there is very welcome.
2
u/BlueM92 3d ago
Id recommend Eufy for the camera, no subscription and all the functions.
0
u/marvel_marv 2d ago
Eufy is not great. Either Reolink for the tinkerer or Unifi if you have cash for solid hardware.
1
1
u/Public-Champion649 2d ago
I just bought a first alert smoke/CO detector cause my best expired. Seems to be good option to nest protect
0
u/LazyJoeJr 3d ago
So I’m currently using a mismatch of products for these categories.
For thermostat, I’d go ecobee (I have a nest currently, but when it hits end of life I’m switching brands).
For smoke alarms, I’m on nest too, but I’m not aware of good alternatives available right now. Mine still have a few years, so I am hoping some nice options come to market by the time I need to replace mine. Otherwise, I might just go back to some low tech ones.
For doorbell camera, I am using a ring. It’s not amazing, but it’s alright. People detection seems adequate and quality is decent enough that it has been going strong since I replace my nest one a few years ago.
2
u/rharri02 3d ago
For smoke alarms, First Alert has a direct replacement for the nest protects. I will also have to update these along with my thermostat.
1
u/blitzzer_24 2d ago
I have a few of these running. I like them, there's definitely a few features missing from the First Alert, but they seem to be a passable replacement.
2
u/New-Bookkeeper-6646 1d ago
Like path light and presence detection?
Those features sealed the deal for me with Nest protects years back. Because, even though they weren’t HomeKit compatible and, I had to use a Homebridge VM to bring them in, those functionalities worked really well as part of my home security system.
1
u/blitzzer_24 1d ago
Yeah it doesn't have the nightlight function that lights up as you walk under it (or occasionally when my cat goes zoomies at 4 AM...) it's a shame because that really was such a nice QOL thing.
1
u/ronnie1014 2d ago
Ecobee ends support for aging thermostats as well. It seems like a common practice for IoT devices,
1
u/Public-Champion649 2d ago
Forced obsolescence apple is the king of this but they all do it. Keeps their business going. Why would they make something that lasts?
1
u/EricRP 2d ago
Ecobee has the exact same risk and they've done the same thing, I gave in and got another goddamn nest
1
u/LazyJoeJr 2d ago
My plan is more distributed — the nest burn feels bad because I went deep into the ecosystem. Any technology is at risk, but id rather not continue to buy Google products.
2
u/ThebestIcywastaken 2d ago
As a HVAC tech, please just look into the Honeywell thermostat, much better than nest and ecobee, and have great customer support. As well as smart wifi ones you can control from anywhere.
2
u/2_Bears_1_Puck 3d ago
Ecobee has worked for me after switching from nest
9
u/sryan2k1 Nest Thermostat Generation 3 3d ago
They did the exact same thing this year. No product is supported forever.
0
u/jtaz16 3d ago
Yes ecobee has home kit support so it should work "forever" unless ecobee patches it out for some reason.
3
u/thatsreallynotme 3d ago
Homekit is not doing that well
1
u/Alexndr77 2d ago
We use HomeKit as our main “integration app” connecting various smart items/platforms. Plugs (Kasa), Lights (Hue & Lutron Caseta), Thermostat (Ecobee) and dog/cat cam (Eufy), 5 HomePods, 2 Apple TV’s. Nest doorbell does NOT integrate (being replaced). HK Works very, very well, our children don’t even know how to use light switches except in bathrooms. All automated (voice/motion/Lutron Aurora’s).
Clean interface. Works. Automations are fantastic (exterior lights, etc). Works even better when everyone in your house has an iPhone and a MacBook. Saying “Siri, goodnight” all interior lights go off. Come home, foyer lights and a few others automatically turn on My favorite is “Siri, code red”. EVERY light (inside and outside) turns red. Is it perfect? No. But a crap ton better than Alexa or Google Home.
What don’t you like?
1
u/thatsreallynotme 2d ago
No I like it, it integrates well with the phone. My point is I see Apple dropping it in the future. HomeKit was first based on Bluetooth and that didn’t work well, they switched to Matter and we are still waiting for wide adoption of it. The other person thought HomeKit is something that will last forever but my point is it’s like any other technology in 10-15 it might just go offline and something new continues
1
1
u/GPPOLYCARP 3d ago
Check out you energy provider. Mine offers a host of products (LED bulbs, power strips, smart thermostats, etc.) for a pretty good discount. I think I am going with Ecobee.
1
11
u/casualseer366 3d ago
I'm in the minority here I know, but Im liking the Nest Gen 4 thermostat, looks nice and seems to be "smarter" than the previous generations. I'd use the code to get one for $150! off, not a bad deal.
8
u/monkaypants 3d ago
You are not in the minority! I'm at GEN 3, started with GEN 1, would replace tomorrow if necessary. These posts are made by people who can't take a step back and look holistically at a problem and use critical thinking. Even if every model only lasted 10 years, you would be paying $15/yr, and if that's too much, get a dumb thermostat.
All smart thermostats have planned obsolescence. Nest has been great, no regrets.
5
u/Character-Object9620 3d ago
That would be good to know when people made the purchase though.
3
u/casualseer366 2d ago
The two thermostats that were retired were almost 15 years old (I do acknowledge that people didn't necessarily buy them that many years ago, but it is when they came out) and was originally designed, sold and marketed by a different company than who supports them today. No one knows where technology is going to go in 15 years, there's no way for a company to promise that. Apple doesn't tell people when they are going to stop supporting their phones or tablets when they go on sale, Microsoft didn't tell people that the Windows 7 computer they bought in 2010 wasn't going to be supported in a little over 10 year.
2
4
u/Plexicle 3d ago
The new Nest thermostat is so good. It’s the best smart thermostat on the market and it also looks the best, too.
It’s also thread/matter! You don’t even need to use the Home app if you don’t want. Huge upgrade.
3
u/DanCoco 3d ago
What actually makes it the "best" smart thermostat on the market? I'm using honeywell at 2 locations. One is about 15 years old now, no subscription, no end of life. The other I got installed with a new furnace and has humidification, dehumidify, schedule, filter change alerts and advanced settings such as preventing window condensation in winter.
They both use the same app, work in HomeAssistant without any coding. (All GUI install.) And no subscriptions.
1
u/theninjam0m 2d ago
Can you adjust the temps remotely? That's my favorite thing about the Nests that came with our house three years ago
2
u/DanCoco 2d ago
Yup. Even tells you the local outside weather.
You can do everything from the app, or from a website even.
2
u/theninjam0m 2d ago
Awesome! Thanks! Honeywell is probably where we're headed. HVAC guys loathe Nest and I was warned about ours when we bought our house but they didn't die like we expected them to.
2
u/New-Bookkeeper-6646 2d ago
HVAC guys loathe Nest because they just don't understand it. Nor, are they willing to learn it. And, their employers want them to push the latest and greatest from the manufacturer of the equipment they install. There's a significant profit to be made on those proprietary thermostats.
2
u/blitzzer_24 1d ago
A LOT of the HVAC world is dinosaur stuff. The trades are very hard and require a lot of skill, but they don't require you to keep up on tech. The advent of smarter and more efficient HVAC starts to blur the line between OT and IT and as such you start having those who do not want to learn more about computers bury their head in the sand.
-1
u/DanCoco 2d ago
What is there to not understand? They loathe Nest because they are a garbage product. I imagine those who did install them have gotten aick of the callbacks for dumb stuff like eco mode taking over and making dumb temp changes.
How is Honeywell proprietary? I had one on my 20 year old furnace. (Self installed t-stat) I have a new one on my York furnace (dealer installed.) And installed the other one at another location myself too. Yes the installer can type in their name and phone number when they set it up, and the end user can easily find that number if they need service, but that's the only "proprietary" thing about them.
How dare a HVAC dealer put a markup on parts they sell! /s
1
u/New-Bookkeeper-6646 1d ago
How about subscribing to Automated Response Technology?
I’m not a fan of the concept actually. But when one is paying north of $0.50/kWh for electricity it is a consideration.
4
8
u/monkaypants 3d ago edited 3d ago
Yes, there are "good" reasons.
Official reason: The primary reason for this change is that the early hardware of these devices makes it increasingly challenging to continue providing updates and support in line with evolving energy needs and technology. They state this decision is part of ongoing efforts to focus on newer smart home standards like Matter and maintain security and compatibility with modern platforms.
And if you don't believe that, there are deeper reasons. Namely planned obsolescence, but not to get you to purchase more frequently, but because the older thermostats don't govern the HVAC as well leading to more energy use. They are most likely being pressured, just like the auto industry, for mor efficiency. Also, there is technology upgrades that may be more difficult to install on old hardware, just like a computer...
Also, imagine having a computer or phone from 2011 in 2025. Ya think it's time to replace it? I dont get all the hate. You guys get a "smart" technology thermostat, then get mad that it's antiquated, comparing it to your childhood dumb thermostats that lasted for "millennia". No, they don't last forever, and even more so when it's a smart thermostat.
At worst, you got 11 years out of a Thermostat bought in 2014 @~$200. So you have paid $14 -$18 a year amortized for that thermostat. If that is going to break you, then maybe you shouldn't be buying smart thermostats?
Upgrade it like you do everything else in your life from cars to phones, or switch brands even though you clearly like the Nest as you have had it for almost 15 years. Sometimes, things that work well are worth it. Wild take I know.
**Edit: On further thought, at ~$20 a year for a thermostat, how much are you saving per month on your electric bill using the Nest? I save a significant amount as it paid itself off within a few months. Very worthwhile investment.**
6
u/justmahl 3d ago
Don't bring common sense and logic into reddit. People just come here to vent and be angry.
-1
u/Youckle 3d ago
Creating more e-waste can’t be called environmental friendly. Why cripple a device that still does what’s it supposed to do? Maybe the hardware is too old/limited to support new standards or features. People will buy newer devices that are capable to support these new technologies when people need/want them. Google/Nest’s behavior will drive their customers away and those people will share their experiences with others, who will stay far away from Google too. It takes ages to build a good reputation, but moments to get a bad reputation. I wonder if Google will realize that in time better their business model.
1
u/monkaypants 3d ago
So, turning the smart thermostat into a "dumb" thermostat cripples it? It will still function perfectly as a thermostat, which is the end goal no? It only loses app functionality.
You do realize every App on your phone does the same thing right? Go get an old iphone (10+ years old) and try to run a current app you use today. Impossible. This is magnified per app and what their business model allows. Nest drew a line, just like Any. Other. App. They can't make their app backwards compatible forever, or they would go out of business.
Should we be making updates to Windows 95 because some computers can't run Windows Vista? Let alone Windows 11. At a bare minimum we must recognize that 11-15 years for a technological device is a long life to say current. But at some point in time, you have to recognize that the juice isn't worth the squeeze and will result in a negative impact to current and future devices, escalating costs, hindrance to innovation, can get deeper about codebase, but the question is, "Are there good reasons", and there are.
0
u/Youckle 3d ago
When a dumb thermostat was the buyer’s intention, then they would have bought a dumb one. There’s absolutely no good reason to remove functionality from a well working device.
As for the Windows analogy, there was no functionality removed from the deprecated versions, just no more updates. And users were free to choose a different OS. Google seems to have actively removed 3rd party support.
3
u/casualseer366 2d ago
It would have been better if Microsoft could have removed functionality from the deprecated versions. Leaving computers online with no security updates is horrible, and contributes to the spam and botnet problem as people's old computers get turned into zombies in a botnet.
2
u/monkaypants 2d ago
"There’s absolutely no good reason to remove functionality from a well working device."
The reason is business sense. Let's say you have enough developers on salary to keep up with 100 versions across Android and iOS. When you get past 100, your options are to hire more developers or cease support. If it is unending support you demand, then the business will be paying developers more than the companies' income, which means it will go bankrupt. Or at the very least operate at a deficit and be subsidized by a parent company at a known loss of yearly revenue, which is not great for longevity / new innovations and/or business.
No app can be permanently backwards compatible across all devices and remain profitable.
2
u/gotmilksnow 2d ago
There is good reason as monkaypants said above. As a software engineer I can tell you without doubt that both of these are not without high cost:
- keeping many hardware devices spanning many generations all updated OR
- maintaining backwards compatibility in your code with old devices that don’t get updates any more
It’s not as simple as just “leave the old code and don’t touch it”.
I understand why this perspective is difficult to understand as someone who doesn’t work in the field though.
1
u/Youckle 2d ago
I happen to work in the field too, both as software engineer, and as system architect. When these thermostats become unsupported, they do not require any software updates and thus can be cut out of the builds/releases/automated tests/…
Removing all functionality beyond a basic “dumb” thermostat’s is not necessary.
It would be even better if they had released it to open source. That way the community would have been able to support the obsolete hardware.
2
2
u/pdaddymc 3d ago
There is no reason to kill app control and leave the thermostats working. They just want less work and less cost at Google. No one is pressuring Google this is their own decision. And one that is not environmental or consumer friendly.
2
u/Shadowsplay 3d ago
How do you know there is no reason to kill app control? Are you a developer?
2
u/pdaddymc 2d ago
Yes. I’m a developer. Google just wants to save what little money it costs to keep supporting the older products.
0
u/casualseer366 2d ago
Along with everyone else that does the same thing, like Apple, Microsoft, Samsung, Ecobee, etc etc.
3
u/Youckle 2d ago
The fact that other companies do it, should not be validating bad behavior. Or is it now okay to download software/music/movies just because others do so?
0
u/casualseer366 2d ago
It's not validating bad behavior, it's showing the reality of the situation, that supporting older hardware has a cost that sooner or later will be more than a company feels is worth it.
How long should Google support the gen1 thermostat? They supported it longer than Apple supports their hardware devices, longer than Microsoft supports their operating systems. Should they support it for 50 years? 100 years?
2
u/NewspaperPale 2d ago
Zero. Nest was a great company killed by google. I had their thermostats and smoke co detectors. They phased them all out so I went with ecobee and ring for the smokes and alarms. Too bad because they really did have a nice design and work well but I refuse to give any more money to google for a new thermostat or any other product.
1
u/axle_munshine 2d ago
Do the newer Nest thermostat Google suggests (v4?) can be controlled by the Nest app or requires to use Google Play?
1
1
u/ComprehensivePin6097 2d ago
My dogs feeder and water dish can connect through wifi through those generic wifi connection apps. Nest can't do the same thing?
1
u/KaotikJ80 1d ago
Yeah they are discounting the 1st gen is why. Old technology. It sucks but sometimes happens. Google claims they sent emails out to user for discounts on newer one.
1
u/frenchman321 18h ago
Why is Ecobee better? Haven't they also turned off support for some models? And even if you think it's not the same, what guarantees do you have that any connected modem you buy today won't be dropped in 10 years or so? Sadly that is the world we live in right now, Google or not.
1
1
u/sm753 2d ago
Because people believe Google should continue supporting a product after 14-15 years... Realistically, what's the expectation here? Should all tech companies be required to support their products until the last person has decided to stop using it? That's kind of unrealistic.
2
u/New-Bookkeeper-6646 2d ago
If you want to be a brand that with a decent reputation, then it's quite realistic. The trust has to be earned. And, it can be a goldmine for the company.
0
u/ottothedachshund 3d ago
Anyone have any experience with x sense? https://www.x-sense.com/pages/back-to-school-sale
52
u/Adventurous-Line1014 3d ago
The good reason is that people will be much less likely to buy anything from Google in the future