r/NoStupidQuestions • u/Garey_Coleman • 6d ago
Where are the homeless supposed to go?
Cities have been cracking down on homeless people so they can’t have encampments or stay on sidewalks. At the same time usually the shelters are full. So those who are unable to get into a shelter, where are they supposed to go?
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u/Partnumber 6d ago
Away
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u/Ban-Circumcision-Now 6d ago
Yep, America’s plan for addressing the homeless is just “move along”
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u/VolitionReceptacle 6d ago edited 6d ago
"Why don't we just take the homeless... and push them somewhere else?!"
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u/mkt853 6d ago
What a groundbreaking idea! I'm sure that's never been tried before.
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u/Proud-Cartoonist-431 6d ago
It's been tried by the USSR. You just bulid a small town of commieblocks 100ish km away from the city with basic amenities and everything, and transport them there, giving each a small residence. Alcoholics can't afford railroad tickets because vodka is cheaper. That's all.
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u/ConfusionsFirstSong 6d ago
But see that’s called housing first, and the current administration believes everyone should have to be sober and in treatment before they get the benefits of housing. Otherwise, they may not use their boot straps and might depend on government handouts.
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u/Irishish Hey, Paramedics! 5d ago edited 4d ago
I know that, speaking as an alcoholic, utter destitution would totally have shamed me into changing my life, and definitely not driven me to say "fuck it, I don't want to care anymore" and just scrounge enough for food and gutter vodka. After all, when you're addicted to something and you are convinced nothing can make you feel as good as that thing, like your life will be meaningless without that thing, it's super easy to just go "well I gotta give this thing up to sleep in a crowded dorm where people might steal my stuff."
EDIT: Sigh. /s.
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u/Author_Noelle_A 5d ago
I live in a city with Housing First complexes, and others that requires people with addiction issues being treatment. Don’t have to be sober, just in treatment. Treatment’s offered, but you don’t have to and can keep shooting up in private. There are no requirements at all for the Housing First, and it’s gone VERY badly, unless your idea of success is not having to see homeless people and giving them a private place to go OD and not be discovered until three days later. OD in public, and 911 gets called. Worse is the crime rate. One of the complexes, I think Alta Vista, has about 7,000 police calls come in per year. Yes, 7,000. Yes, that’s a ridiculuos number per day, and it’s like, how? The crime is so bad that some people have moved back to the streets to be safer.
The ones requiring being in treatment have been credited with helping people get their lives back together and stable. No crime issues. It’s been great.
The HF really is just a place to get them somewhere we can’t see them. No one wanting to get sober is going to get sober. When a reporter went there to do an article, she was in a woman’s apartment talking interviewing her when someone busted in the door looking for a hiding place because there was a shooting.
HF sounds like a great concept, but the reality is that people so hell-bent on using are personally better off on the streets where 911 can be called. I guess it’s better for society ‘cause one less junkie, right?
And no, decriminalizing didn’t work. It made everything so much worse, more needles in parks, ambulances being so busy that at least one person who had a heart attack is known to have died because it took over half an hour for an ambulance to be available because of how many OD calls. Deciminalization was reversed, and ODs have gone down. I’m on the other side of the river from that, so it’s local. Portland and Vancouver may as well be views as a scientific study.
Having seen how both go, I favor the mandatory-treatment one. Requiring complete sobriety first is extremely unreasonable, but letting it be a free-for-all endangers people, some who really are trying to get their lives together, but can’t because they aren’t safe.
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u/Legal-Sprinkles8862 5d ago
Hi! Currently sober & homeless here & I honestly had no idea that this was all it took to get housing. From what I was told I needed to have a mental disability (I do) & live in my car for 6 months. So I am. But I live in fear of someone stealing my home since I drive a Hyundai. 😆 They've already made two very costly attempts & I don't wanna find out if the 3rd time does the trick.
I am also working full-time but can't get benefits from my job due to my mental disability forcing me down to part time hours in the aftermath of a mental health crisis (I am in therapy as well). So even though I am now back to working full time but still need the government handout of state health insurance.
It feels really weird to know that my earning potential is more than enough to cover rent & still not be allowed to rent because previously I was to poor & sick to pay rent. 😅
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u/mkt853 6d ago
Sounds fancy. In America they will live in a giant cage under a tent in the middle of gator infested tropical swamps that flood frequently.
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u/Just-Performance-666 6d ago
It's also that being unemployed wasn't really an option in the USSR, neither was "choice"
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u/PyroNine9 6d ago
Being unemployed for long isn't really an option in the U.S. either. But at the same time, nobody has to give you a job, much less a job that actually pays enough to live.
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u/JaymoKeepIt100 5d ago
That’s what do not make sense about this new Medicaid/SNAP rule having to work whatever hours a month to get benefits. What if nobody wants to hire you they can’t make them do it
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u/HeavyMain ok 5d ago
this is not an oversight. the intent was always to starve out the "undesireables".
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u/boslifesober 5d ago
Had the problem of nobody hiring me for 2 whole years. Sent thousands of resumes and many interviews. I have a decade of work experience, it doesn't look the best due to constantly moving because of my father or when he'd kick me out and constantly had to keep moving so I never stayed somewhere for that long and developed a criminal record due to my father making false statements to the cops.
But I worked very hard for a decade, learning everything in a restaurant. FOH & BOH been everything from dishwasher to management. Can run an entire kitchen all by myself.
None of that mattered. All they saw was the gap in my resume, the lengths I had stayed at previous jobs, and my legal troubles. it was a wrap. How tf are we supposed to get our shit together if nobody gives us the opportunity.
One day, I want to open a store that hires only people who have struggled in one way or another. They are the ones that respect having a job, know what it means to work hard even for the smallest of things, being grateful for things that are taken for granted every day, understand the consequences of their actions, and so much more. But even that would hardly help the community of hardship.
Shit needs to fucking change.
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u/Pristine-Pen-9885 5d ago
Tank the economy and make people lose their homes, then make it illegal to be homeless. What the hell?!
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u/GPT_2025 reddit 6d ago
It would be nice if-- IF! Workforce offices could function like temp agencies!
hiring on the spot and sending workers to local businesses for trial periods of around 60- 90 days.
Businesses cooperating with Workforce offices can evaluate, train, and decide whether to hire candidates permanently.
This creates a win-win situation: it helps the government reduce unemployment, ensures that Workforce are effectively utilized for the funding $$$ they receive, and provides job seekers with a quick, reliable way to find same-day $ employment when needed.
Additionally, it offers local businesses the opportunity to assess candidates firsthand before making a final hiring decision, leading to better fit and reduced turnover.
(Currently, almost 76% of the hourly workforce is working at state minimum wages or slightly above that minimum.) and Ignore federal minimum wage.
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u/Zealousideal-Help594 6d ago edited 5d ago
I think the problem is that many of the homeless folks have drug or mental health issues and wouldn't be able to function to do the work. Additionally, if they're homeless, they likely have no access to clean clothes and personal hygiene which is an impediment to a work environment.
I am not in the US and not familiar with Workforce as a program or office and am even just assuming that it is a US based thing, so I may be totally wrong here, but my above statement is what I've witnessed locally.
Edit typo
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u/Code-Useful 6d ago
I have to tell you that there are MANY MANY homeless here in the US: single, families, etc, that are NOT drug addicts or have mental health issues, they are just a product of our times and lifestyles and the economy.
Just because the ones you see and remember are the crazies, doesn't mean there aren't 10x more normal people out there that you don't see, like you and me, who have fallen on hard times. Please don't 'other' them because they don't have a home. Some of these people are really good people who have literally tried their best and life kicked them in the teeth. Some of them are on the spectrum and never got the help they needed.
Nearly EVERY lower income family in the US is one major accident, health problem, natural disaster, etc away from homelessness. Without uncorrupted social safety nets that democratic representatives usually are the only ones to fight for, we are headed down the tube and can only rely on each other.. hopefully some new projects like this find success.
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u/Sorry_End3401 5d ago
Thank you. I’m currently employed and homeless. I work as a service writer in the auto center for a billionaire family that has more money than they could ever use up in several lifetimes.
I make $15 an hour. That would have been great, like if it was the 1980s or 1990s. I cannot afford an apartment plus car insurance plus food plus paying healthcare plus utilities. So that’s how nice people become homeless. Through divorce or health crisis, I never thought it would happen to me
There are no safety nets.
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u/RedditNewbe65 6d ago
They followed the late Sam Kineson's advice and moved to where the food is. You won't see them in the farmland, you see it where the food, jobs, shelters are located.
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u/dr_strange-love 6d ago
That's how the first Rambo movie started.
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u/ExcitingMoose13 6d ago
But I thought to take away from rambo was supposed to be rara America, the way the sequels did
Not a Dark look at how the American government uses and throws away veterans and rather pour resources into controlling the homeless instead of actually providing for them
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u/Overcast451 6d ago edited 6d ago
That's the whole dialog at the end of the first movie when Col Troutman confronts Rambo at the police station while the sheriff is shot up at his mercy; delves into the concept of him being used, tossed to the side, and left to flounder. No guidance or assistance for him in spite of his sacrifice.
"You can't just turn it off!"
Also, in the movie, the Sheriff has a Silver Star and Purple Heart on his desk, seemingly to indicate he was a veteran, too.
My takeaway from the first movie was two government machines going after each other. Adding in the colonel who just became a thoughtless part of the machine, until his eyes give away his sudden realization in the end.
One damaged by a war and the other emboldened by a war. Subtlety addressing the mental scars left with vastly different results.
The message in the first movie was moving and eye-opening. The others were just shoot fests.
I have seen the first one numerous times, it's much deeper than it appears on the surface. PTSD might have been a medical thing at the time, but most people didn't have a concept or name for it, that I knew of. I was young, though.
The others I have seen once or twice. They were basically action shooters with the "rara" feel.
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u/graham_king 6d ago
Also, in the movie, the Sheriff has a Silver Star and Purple Heart on his desk, seemingly to indicate he was a veteran, too
Of the Korean war, it's explicit in the book. He resents the Vietnam veterans overshadowing his own service, which partly explains his instant dislike of Rambo.
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u/JJohnston015 6d ago
Rambo also mocked the Sheriff's showboating his medals. When he saw them, he said, "Oh, gave 'em hell in Korea, did you?"
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u/Bill__NHI 5d ago
He resents the Vietnam veterans overshadowing his own service, which partly explains his instant dislike of Rambo.
Just as a large portion of people hated on returning Vietnam vets, my father being one of them who was spit on and called baby killer when he returned home. Mind you he was only a combat medic, and only fired blindly into the jungle when under attack—hardly a baby killer.
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u/showyerbewbs 6d ago
PTSD might have been a medical thing at the time, but most people didn't have a concept or name for it, that I knew of. I was young, though
From WWI and WWII, it was called "Shell shock" because a lot of the soldiers were intimately close to big guns on ships and tanks.
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u/Dhaeron 5d ago
For a good part of WW1 it was called cowardice and people were sentenced for it. The British army executed a couple hundred soldiers for it in WW1 and they didn't get (posthumously) pardoned until the mid-2000s.
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u/MrLanesLament 6d ago
At that time, I think PTSD was still called “shell shock” and it was a career killer. If you mentioned it to anyone other than your buddies of similar rank, you’d be mental-healthed out.
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u/CurvyJohnsonMilk 6d ago
Theres one or two deaths in the first one. The second one Rambo kills about 200 faceless Asians. The third one he kills about 300 faceless russians, while defending the afghani freedom fights (i.e. the taliban)
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u/marbanasin 6d ago
They weren't the Taliban at that time, and to be fair there were many different militant factions, from different ethnic groups and regions.
But, yes. We funneled a shit load of weapons into that country to bleed the Russians and then just let it turn into a failed state so a Taliban like group could take over after. 0 shits given after Russia pulled out. And Rambo 3 is perfect at showing that sentiment in the West at the time.
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u/cat_prophecy 6d ago
It's nuts how different the sequels are compared to the first movie. Having only seen Rambo 2 and 3 I assumed that the first one was more of the same.
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u/National-Plastic8691 6d ago
he wasn’t part of the homeless, he was a traveller and considered a vagrant. slightly different weird laws there
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u/Broomstick73 5d ago
The first Rambo movie was so wildly different than the others. It had a real message and plot.
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u/brettcb 6d ago
Alternatively, have they tried not being homeless?
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u/proudbutnotarrogant 6d ago
"It's not my problem that you have no money for food. You should have thought of that before becoming peasants."
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u/JPBillingsgate 5d ago
The chronically homeless, which is the homeless population that are problematic for cities, are not homeless because they have no money for food. It is mental illness, substance abuse, or a combination of both.
The second, larger, homeless population is much, much less of a problem and these are people who are much more able to seek and receive help. We should never stop being generous with these people as governments or as individuals.
For the first group, not only would it be hugely expensive to try and treat these people en masse, we would also have to be able to involuntarily commit many of them, which is something that is not legal in most cases now.
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u/proudbutnotarrogant 5d ago
This was a quote from a kid's movie. It's not meant to be taken seriously. However, I do agree with you. Unfortunately, the obvious fix is, in fact, to involuntarily commit certain people, which is a rabbit hole no one wants the credit for having us go down.
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u/ManyAreMyNames 5d ago
“And the Union workhouses?” demanded Scrooge. “Are they still in operation?”
“They are. [...] Many can’t go there; and many would rather die.”
“If they would rather die,” said Scrooge, “they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population.”
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u/DebtBeautiful8188 6d ago edited 6d ago
Away is the correct answer, but for a lot of people, away usually means institutionalization. Prison for the ones they think are criminal and/or lazy, and a mental institution for the rest. People can be sympathetic to mental illness, especially when it presents in an obvious, but non-threatening manner, but they usually don't understand how the system works and why just throwing everyone in an asylum is a bad idea.
People often also overestimate how many resources there are available for people who are experiencing some form of homelessness. I worked in a DV shelter for a while, and people would share very... interesting opinions with me. Largely out of ignorance, but that ignorance made them feel safe and secure, so they didn't really want to listen to me when I'd try to explain.
edit: I realize looking back at this, I wasn't clear in what I meant by away. I was looking at another comment and thinking of how society as a whole thinks. imo we need to put way more resources into housing and reintegrating homeless folks back into society, but also accepting that some people would rather just live in a different way. There are no quick and easy solutions to this, however, and we still have to respect people's dignity and freedom to make their own choices. Sometimes, that means that people will make what we consider to be a bad choices. But considering that the mentally ill are way more likely to be victims of violent crime than to commit those acts themselves, I'm not fond of the idea of institutionalization as a solution for everyone, and I think that we as a society need to come to terms with what is discomfort and what is a true threat to our health and safety.
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u/Nasskit1612 6d ago
I had to do a clinical rotation in the psych ward. One guy I was working with had schizophrenia and hurt his mom(he had stopped taking his meds bc he felt fine), so he couldn’t go home. He was being released on the street bc there was no where for him to go - shelters were full. So he’s medicated and “fine” now and being put into the street. How is he going to continue to take his meds? I live in the north, how the f is he going to survive winter? 🤷♀️
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u/StormMaleficent6337 6d ago
What state is he in?
NY has “Code Blue” laws which means social services has to put you in a hotel for the night if it’s under 33 degrees, or at a shelter… but shelters are usually full so people go to motels/hotels and chill there
Growing up in NYC, I saw many people spend all winter in shelters and hotels because of Code Blue
You call 311 and they have to place you somewhere
Sometimes it’s even things called “warming stations”
I don’t know if any other state has this, but it’s a good reason why the homeless should go to NY during the winter, because it’s for non-NY residents as well
A huge reason why a lot of homeless take buses to NYC when it starts to get cold
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u/Caius01 5d ago
California doesn't have that, which is why more homeless people freeze to death in LA than NYC
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u/StormMaleficent6337 5d ago
Yup
As far as being homeless goes, or receiving benefits like food stamps and Medicaid, NY really is the best state to be in
Of course it leads to many people abusing the system, but better that than honest homeless people starving and dying and sleeping on pavement
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u/Old_Dealer_7002 5d ago
i've never seen an individual abusing the system, and i've seen many things. i have seen politicians, the wealthy, and corporations abuse it tho. many times, ongoing.
people being people, yeah, maybe here and there someone gets a few hundred they "shouldn't" get or something. but you have to have proof/documentation to get things, usually even just to go to a food bank.
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u/No_Foundation7308 5d ago
I worked for the City of Nashville. One year we hit the single digits which was extremely rare. Parks and recreation set up ‘warming stations’ in community centers etc
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u/DairyKing28 5d ago
Hi. I'm homeless in Nashville.
I moved here last year because I was homeless in another city. I went to save my cat during a storm, caught her under a bridge, went to get her, had cops see me, and they arrested me on trespassing charges. I moved as part of a plea deal. Nashville seemed to have had better jobs than Huntsville did. I have been lying to most of my friends about my situation because I'm both ashamed and I don't want them to worry.
I'm not an addict. I barely drink. I'm fully sane. I'm employed. The problem is I live in the South without a car. Finding good stable work in Huntsville is virtually impossible without a vehicle. I was going through dead end jobs that didn't pay anything over 15 dollars an hour....all while trying to appear normal enough to be employed. I couldn't afford room to rent much less an apartment unless those jobs gave me a lot of overtime.
I got lucky and moved here knowing at least two people who were kind enough to let me use their addresses. I then found a bridge to hide and sleep(usually chasing other homeless away who are addicts or who are mental. Helps protect my stuff so I can be normally employed. I literally couldn't work otherwise). So this year I spent the winter outside, including the week long cold snap where temps were in the single digits. Shelters were full and I generally avoid them to begin with, so I slept when snow was LITERALLY on top of me. I woke up with my entire body frozen. Had I not gotten a lot of blankets, a thick coat, and a shit ton of hand warmers I'd be dead right now. I gutted that shit out just so I can continue working.
I've been going through some major depression because I work as a stagehand. As such, I've worked with and alongside some professional and aspiring producers, aspiring artists, AND celebrities. I've spent my life growing up dirt poor. Watching people have good lives while I slave away in hopes of getting a place to live or...just to be normal, is soul-crushing.
However, in spite of my current situation, I'm doing better here than I was in Huntsville. I'm not in jail. Thank God. I still have a job I'm working my ass off to make a career.
I still don't have a car or license. I know what it'll take to get it but I'll have to take classes for it. They ain't cheap. I'm talking between 3k-5k at least just to feel like I've mastered it. And then find friends who will let me borrow their vehicle for the test.
I'm not mentally ill. I'm just poor, living in an expensive city to try to learn skills that will maybe one day translate into a career that can help me afford a place to live. And I'm trying not to be bitter watching other people be successful. But it hurts.
Seeing what Donald Trump is trying to do is disheartening, but far from surprising. But it's not him that makes me sad. It's watching poor Nashvillians think that the homeless and the Spanish are the reasons they can't get ahead in life.
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u/StormMaleficent6337 5d ago
Crazy it had to reach single digits
Our warming stations are already set up in NY, throughout the whole state… they only open if it drops below 33 tho
Waiting for single digits is crazy, but I know nothing about the homelessness scene in Nashville (I hope it’s none too bad!)
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u/Ruthless4u 6d ago
A big problem is people stopping meds the moment they feel better, because why keep paying for something they don’t “ need “?
While not a psych ward I did work with long term dementia patients. A lot of the same issues but they would in up in LTC
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u/ChocolatChipLemonade 5d ago
Yeah it’s complicated. When my mother graduated pharmacy school long, long ago, her first position was at the state mental institution, working under a psychiatrist. These were patients that absolutely could not survive in the outside world. She said that when they privatized the system, it created an abundance of homelessness and loss of care for those that needed it. Kinda just pushed those institutionalized people out on the streets and said, “Good luck!” It was more about money than anything else.
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u/saladdressed 6d ago
Does your area have a lot of beds in mental hospitals available? I live in a large city and we have none. Non-homeless people who need inpatient care can’t get it and are on waiting lists.
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u/Comprehensive-Put575 6d ago edited 5d ago
Absolutely. “Overestimate how many resources there are” is huge in this. It’s been steadily eroding for decades and alot of people are under the impression it’s still 1980. These institutions at best are hanging by a thread if they even exist at all anymore
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u/Particular-Poem-7085 6d ago
mental institutions give them the greyhound treatment and the beautiful cycle continues. A practice of releasing troublesome patients with a one way ticket out of town.
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u/MolemanEnLaManana 6d ago
No one wants to say it aloud (because it’s a vile and appalling outcome) but the logical conclusion here is putting homeless people in prisons and other institutions against their will. If you criminalize homelessness more and more, and you don’t create more spaces where the homeless can freely live, that’s what you’re building toward.
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u/HungryIndependence13 6d ago
Florida has made it illegal for them to sleep. No joke.
You aren’t allowed to use someone else’s private property to sleep.
You aren’t allowed to sleep on public property.
So, they can’t sleep anywhere. They are not allowed to sleep.
This 100% turns them into criminals against their will. No matter how hard they try to stay awake they will eventually fall asleep somewhere.
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u/doubledoc5212 5d ago
Colorado has similar laws - it's unlawful to sleep in public places. The cops will literally wake people up at 2am because they're sleeping in a park and force them to hike elsewhere. Where: who knows? And god knows you're going to have a hard time actually getting your life back together when you never get to finish a REM cycle.
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u/whitedolphinn 5d ago
That's fucked.
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u/Slightly-Adrift 5d ago
Colorado is in an extra sucky position because people will freeze to death outside, so we really don’t want people on the streets at night during the winter, but we’ve provided next to no resources to actually address that as an issue
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u/Fantastic-Campaign31 5d ago
One of the biggest "holy shit, this is what the world is really like" moments for me as a new adult was when I went on a road trip and due to limited funds some nights I slept in my car. And I learned very quick how difficult it is to legally sleep in public. My brain couldn't comprehend it. I'm technically legally not allowed to just park on the street somewhere where I'm not bothering someone and sleep? Or find an empty lot overnight? Then I wondered about people less fortunate than I who don't do it by choice. Who have no other option. It's incredibly sad that as a society you can't just...exist, sometimes.
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u/TheInfinitePymp 5d ago
FYI if you're still a traveler, find hospitals to park overnight and sleep. Usually it's not heavily patrolled, and it's expected that people come and go at all hours.
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u/Available_Prune4377 5d ago
That is one of the dumbest laws to exist. If a parking lot is empty at 2 AM why can’t I park there and sleep
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u/WormedOut 5d ago
The laws are made due to the consequences of the extreme. If large amounts of cars park on the side of the road and are full of people sleeping, it’s a safety hazard. Public sleeping laws are to stop homeless encampments from forming.
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u/Fantastic-Campaign31 5d ago
I actually did come to that conclusion! Makes sense, doesn't make it any less sad
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u/Indigo_Sweater 5d ago
The correct way to address that is to make it easier for homeless people to find housing. Not make it illegal. You can't just make everything you don't find appealing or even unsafe illegal, it's impossible to enforce and always leads to mostly innocent people paying the price. It's not a "consequence for the extreme" its political theater.
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u/RandeKnight 5d ago
It's literally more expensive to put them in prison than to house them. A prison spot costs $30K-$100K a year.
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u/keegums 6d ago
"Sanctuary District" from Star Trek DS9. They are coming. The fictional Bell Riots were in 2024. The episode came out around 1997ish
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u/Valkayri 5d ago
I think about those sanctuary districts everytime there's talk about building a "place" to put the homeless.
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u/JohnHazardWandering 6d ago
So pay for 24 hour care?? or just pay half that in social services and housing for them to be on their own.
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u/KittensInc 6d ago
Assuming a US context: you forgot about the Thirteenth Amendment:
Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Why pay for their care if you can force them to work?
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u/whatugonnadowhenthey 6d ago edited 6d ago
Since no one is answering the question in good faith, I’ll give it a shot. Honestly, most cities don’t give a shit if a homeless guy is sleeping on a stoop or in a alley or something, it’s been part of living in a city for thousands of years. They care when dozens of them set up tent cities in public areas and start trashing them. That’s when it becomes a real problem because once a tent city is established, less regular folk go to the area, which leads to more homeless, which leads to less regular folk, which leads to businesses leaving, etc. etc.
So the answer to your question is out of open air drug dens and into more individual spaces that are less of an eye sore and quite frankly a danger to the community. Literally “disperse”.
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u/Eudaimonics 5d ago
The ideal solution is:
- More public housing for those on Social Security/SSI
- More transitional housing for those with steady jobs that just need a place to live for a few months
- Long Term Treatment Clinics
Ultimately this costs a lot more money than just building shelters or ensuring people aren’t needlessly dying from overdoses/dirty needles.
I feel like one side doesn’t want to spend a dime on “other people’s problems” and the other is too focused on bandaids and someone’s right to live in a tent than actual long term solutions.
Shelters, Narcan access and safe injection sites just cover up the symptoms, they’re not the cure.
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u/NorCalAthlete 6d ago
It’s not just pushing out foot traffic and trashing areas.
In San Jose there are homeless encampment fires almost weekly that get big enough to be seen from anywhere in the city. Sometimes in difficult-for-emergency-crews-to-access areas. The homeless here will wire up solar panels and generators and all manner of wonky electrical work, but they’re doing it in dry creek beds full of brush and such so a single spark sets things off fairly easily.
Something like 90% of calls for service for EMS are for the same repeat offenders.
So it has a major impact on emergency and medical services.
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u/BeardedDisc 6d ago
Part of the answer here is that those “encampments” make it more “comfortable” (I get that’s it’s still a shit hole). Many people feel this removes much of the incentive to pull oneself out of this situation one way or another.
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u/Witty_Replacement969 6d ago edited 6d ago
For some encampments are safer. A single homeless female is almost always a target for rape if her sleeping place is discovered. One friend had a brick thrown at her while sleeping. I am one of the 'working poor' and do not do drugs, alcohol, and am not a criminal, and I have seizures, but I do not make enough to qualify for a safe rental (currently min. income for a cheap studio is 3x rent, plus 3 -12 month deposit, key deposit, etc.). It would currently take 2 roommates plus myself to rent a studio unit (this is all across my country). No LL will accept that. By safe I mean not filled with bed bugs, cockroaches, or a LL after sex, with a proper water and heat supply and a locking door. Sudsidized housing is a decade long wait here. I'm waiting for medically assisted death now (available in my country), because I was doing everything the legal and correct way, and am a hard worker, but why should I >want< to work to enrich other people who want me to freeze to death in the winter while paying me minimum wage? These are the same people who would prefer I go die out of sight. I was in 3rd year of a Microbiology degree before becoming homeless. COL forced me to drop out to work. I have no family. I have no wealthy friends. I'm sick of running in your rat race and becoming worse off when I have never had the opportunities most of you take for granted. Food banks are only open 1 - 2 hours (when I work) so that I can not access them. I paid taxes from the age of 15, but to this country I am a piece of trash.
Edit: The country is Canada. I am not considered disabled enough for the Disability Tax Credit and Benefit. I am too old to qualify for most student programs and too young to qualify for any seniors. I do not qualify for any scholarships because I am not racially profiled, do not have dependents, am not the first person to go to university in my family, am not a refugee or asylum claimant, new immigrant, etc. and while I am a good student, I'm not a genius. If I do not >qualify< to live, what else can I do but at least have some control over my exit? For those going on about mental health: Therapy needs to be done from a place of physical stability due to issues that come up during it. A person living in survival mode should not be doing therapy other than coping skills. Also, it can cost $170/hr for proper treatment. That is not covered by provincial health.
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u/PaisleyLeopard 6d ago
I’m so sorry you’re in this situation. It isn’t right, no one should be stuck without options.
I hope you find the peace the you deserve, and I dearly hope you can find a way to accomplish that without having to exit the planet. I won’t hold my breath though—humanity’s track record on compassion isn’t great.
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u/throw1away9932s 6d ago
Honest response here of how I did it. Get a case worker. They are free. Look them up in your area. It will be a phone chain pass around nightmare but you will find one.
Step 2 the case worker sets you up with free group therapy. It isn’t great but it’s something you can build on.
Step 3: the case worker connects you with resources and is able to advocate for disability for you and knows the system and how to appeal.
Step 4: which is shitty but works. Go to the hospital tell them how you feel and that you want to die. They will keep you over night but also hook you up with a psychiatrist.
Things get a bit better.
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u/External_Tart_ 6d ago
Why not become a criminal? If you see death as the only way out, embrace free will. I'm sorry about your situation.
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u/PaisleyLeopard 6d ago
This highlights a really good point. The situation we put people in causes crime, not the other way around as is generally assumed. Basically, we want to think that homeless people ‘deserve’ their situation because they’re all druggies and/or criminals—that way we don’t have to feel bad for the inhumane ways we deal with them. In reality, the majority of criminals and addicts started doing those things out of desperation, because they didn’t have better options. When we take care of people, they’re a helluva lot less likely to turn to crime or self medication.
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u/HeKis4 6d ago
The situation we put people in causes crime
Society is nothing but a set of rules we impose to live together in peace. If you give people no reason to live as a society (or worse, actively push them away), surprise, they stop following the rules. Insane, I know.
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u/MotherofBook 6d ago
Which gets to the core of it all.
Most people don’t want to actually solve homelessness, drug problems or crack down on crime. They just want it to go away.
In reality. The way we fix these issues is by fixing the system that makes it possible to begin with.
- Universal Health Care: People won’t be going into debt because they got sick. People will have access to affordable pain relief, therapy and medication.
-Affordable Housing: Prevent companies from hoarding properties and jacking up prices. People should have to spend 2/3 of their monthly income of a roof over their head. One accident and they are on the streets.
-Cap Cost of living: Very simplified but for this point - CEOs shouldn’t be making Millions in a week and their lowest employees barely making a dime. I think CEOs shouldn’t be making more than 20-50% more than their lowest worker.
That would ensure people can afford to actually live
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u/clubby37 5d ago
I think CEOs shouldn’t be making more than 20-50% more than their lowest worker.
We need to find the Greedy Fuck Threshold.
If you set no limits, you have today's ever-decaying proto-hellscape.
If you set limits that are too tight, people will be too highly incentivized to work around them. Every system has weak points; the true art is balancing pressures such that the weak points never get stressed beyond capacity.
Greedy people are gonna get more. If the system doesn't allow it, they'll break the system. Based on nothing but my own stupid intuition, 1.5x won't cut it, and anything over 10x seems surplus to requirements. Not sure where the golden number is exactly, but if I found out that a pediatric oncologist made 10x as much as a carpenter, I'd probably tolerate it, and honestly, I'd be fine with 3x -- elegant coffee tables are great, but cancer-free children are better. If I were a greedy fuck, and I found out I could only make 10x as much as my janitors, I'd probably make a subreddit and bitch about it, but not do anything to jeopardize the 10x I'm already getting.
The Greedy Fuck Threshold is where the rich are just barely rich enough that it isn't worth risking what they already have to get more. We need to find it, and set taxes and minimum wages accordingly.
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u/Sheraby 5d ago
I think CEOs shouldn’t be making more than 20-50% more than their lowest worker.
Before CEO pay really took off, heads of companies were making somewhere around 20-25x (times, not percent) more than their lowest paid worker. And the lowest paid workers were paid better at that point. So I don't think your suggestion makes sense.
But leaving specifics out of it, the whole economic system in this country needs deep reform, with foremost attention to living wages and minimum standards of living, as well as reining in what is known as the ‘wealth pump’ that redistributes wealth from the poor to the rich, which has been in full swing since at least the late 1970s.
Edit: word
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u/clubby37 6d ago
This is such an important point. Desperation and crime are very closely correlated, because there's a causal relationship. I remember years ago, I was going through a very rough time, couldn't even afford a phone, and was behind on other bills. I was walking down a dark street in a questionable neighbourhood. I passed a well-dressed lady who was doing a piss poor job of protecting her purse. We were alone on that sidewalk. I really thought about it, man. For half a second, I thought I might actually do it. She was carrying at least a month's peace of mind in that undefended purse.
We like to punish people with discomfort for misbehaviour, but don't like to acknowledge that discomfort promotes misbehaviour. Meeting people's needs before they've done something to earn it can seem like rewarding people who don't deserve it, but I think it's crazy to see that as worse than creating criminals where there otherwise wouldn't be any.
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u/Plutonicuss 5d ago
In this world where there are trillionaires and where 1/3 of all food produced goes to landfills, it doesn’t make sense to not meet everyone’s basic needs.
It sometimes feels like they want people to live in fear and to have people to demonize for losing the imagined game of meritocracy, to tell middle class people “if you don’t get a good enough job, you’ll end up like this.” It feels so medieval that this is still a problem.
I can’t see a downside for some form of UBI. I don’t think everyone would suddenly become lazy freeloaders who sit around all day. Think about all those retired folks puttering around trying to stay busy 24/7 still.
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u/Curious-Author-3140 5d ago
Being without secure housing and protection from violence and the elements is inevitably going to lead to mental and emotional instability. Throw in food insecurity, and the base of the human needs pyramid literally doesn’t exist. This is simple, biology. Human beings can’t function, much less effectively achieve their potential without it.
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u/puppy-paw-print 6d ago
Depending on the country, prison may be much worse
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u/Spiritual_Lie2563 6d ago
Depending on the part of the country, even as little as "you'll be guaranteed to eat something every day, you'll get your health checked out for free, and have a nice warm bed to not freeze to death" is much better than even a minimum wage job.
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u/nightfall2021 6d ago
And with this statement here we see why the primary driver of crime is poverty.
Gangs, drugs, theft, organized crime, violence... Virtually all crime has its origins in poverty.
We will not see a significant impact on crime and the homeless problem until we tackle poverty
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u/Witty_Replacement969 6d ago
I thought about it, but that would break my own moral code: Do not harm others unless given no choice. I would not harm another human being unless I was being physically attacked and needed to survive the encounter. I learned some self-defence from various places.
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u/KonigSteve 5d ago
Personally I don't think stealing from a billion dollar organization harms another human as it would only directly affect the billionaire who owns it's bottom line and he wouldn't see one iota of difference in day to day life.
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u/Sheraby 5d ago
I am so sorry that you are in this situation. The fact that Canada is letting people go through the MAID system rather than caring for them is terrifying and infuriating. I read the story about the person who couldn't get housing that accommodated their disability and made the choice you're making.
I have been unhoused myself in the past, but in the States; your observations about unhoused people and about the systems that keep the poor down ring true to me. I have felt just like you, that if all I am is an unwanted burden, I'd rather not be here. But I got lucky. Luck is all it was, and I knew people who never found some. I just want to say that you deserve better. You are trying your best and doing everything that anyone should ask of you.
You deserve secure housing, healthy food and clean water, clean clothes and everything else you need to be comfortable. You deserve medical care for your seizures. You should be able to finish school. It makes me so angry that you are in this situation and that we all live in a world in which some of us don't have these things. There's no good reason for it.
I really, really hope that you find a way to make a different choice. I hope you can find support and access to other resources. Your life has value. You have value. I know a stranger's hopes feel pretty meaningless, but I believe that there are people out there who could help and are in range of you, if only your paths could cross. I hope you keep looking.
And I really hope that you keep posting about your circumstances. There's one internet stranger who will be watching for updates. Best of luck to you, new friend. 🧡
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u/inurbs 6d ago
If no one else will say it, get off the list. The state’s attempt to coerce you into death may be tempting but it does not have to be one you cave to. It is not a truly free choice, even if it feels like one. The other commenter is right, there is crime, there is prison, there is acceptance of suffering, there is everything but choosing an infinite solution to a finite problem. You are worthy of being alive, of feeling anything up to and including pain, even if the world says you aren’t. Please, don’t be a willing victim of the culture of death.
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u/Shilo788 6d ago
We had a tent area near town in a spot you couldn't see them well, they didn't really trash it and it was there for years, yet this year they cleared it out. Now you see tents here and there up and down the river , but now so spread out they can't keep and eye on them and make sure they are trashing the area. I say give them a flat spot with dumpster and porta potty and leave them be until they cause trouble then arrest the troublemakers.
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u/rain_upahead 6d ago
This is what they have in my city. There's an established gated tent city with portapottys, garbages, and safe injection site. Some safety rules like no BBQs/fires etc. The city recently invested in a ton of tents for the folks. It's really good for the people who have trouble defending themselves on the street for example women and disabled are highly victimized
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u/puppy-paw-print 6d ago
An actual gasp practical solution. I can’t imagine an elected official successfully advocating for This without losing their job.
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u/bannedbooks123 6d ago
Shit on the street is a public health hazard, though.
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u/jimthesquirrelking 6d ago
Publicly accessible maintained bathrooms help prevent this
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u/IBetYr2DadsRStraight 6d ago edited 5d ago
I like to sit in a park near my house. About 500 feet away, there’s a public restroom. It’s not always the cleanest, but it’s enclosed and the toilet, urinal, and sink regularly work just fine. I still commonly see men come into the park to pee on a tree.
Some people just suck.
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u/senderoluminado 5d ago
The park I go to here in Los Angeles has a nice set of soccer fields, which is only about 500 feet or so from a decent set of public bathrooms (one time the urinal got smashed up and it only took the city a couple of days to fix it) and there are port a potties.
There is also a tree and damn if it hasn't collected some international piss when it's dark during rec soccer nights. Arabs, Africans, Brits, Persians, Russians, Ukrainians, Mexicans, Salvadorans, Narnians, all manner of Americans, they all piss on that tree.
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u/Conscious-Strawberry 6d ago
"Literally disperse" to where?
A tent community got busted up in my local area not too long ago. For years after that, it wasn't uncommon for me to find unhoused folks IN MY YARD. One of them broke into the stairwell of our apartment building. Do you know how scary it is to be flying out the door to get to work, just to find a sleeping unhoused person in your stairwell behind a door that's supposed to be locked?
So you've done a good job explaining why these laws are made (eyesore, unsafe conditions, etc). But you really haven't answered OPs question at all of where are they supposed to go after they "disperse"?
And when folks make these laws without giving these humans a place to go, conditions can become much less safe. I can avoid a tent city. A sleeping homeless man who broke into my apartment building bc he had no where else to go when that tent city was broken up? Harder to avoid.
And no, my story is not some one-off thing. Many others who live near tent cities that were broken up have had similar experiences
These people need somewhere to go and sleep at night, just like you and me. That's why I support affordable housing laws and local support programs for the chronically homeless folks
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u/MissDisplaced 6d ago
No one is answering because there is no answer. At the highest levels of government, they never answer where homeless people (who aren’t, say mentally ill or criminals) should go. There is no actual resource for that.
The US had this problem during the Great Depression and the answer was the WPA for public works (how lots of bridges and roads and national parks got built), or the military.
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u/theoneandonly6558 6d ago
That was the eventually solution but many camps sprung up during the Great Depression and many were cleared, burned, destroyed, etc multiple times. I had a great aunt and uncle who lived in a tent during the Great Depression. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hooverville
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u/pikashroom 6d ago
There is no answer from this administration (or any others) but there is clearly a solution. Not a fool proof one, just the first couple of steps.
Fund social programs that help homeless get housing and jobs and maybe medication and put them back on a track to living a good life.
When I was in the mental ward, quite a few of those people didn’t have housing. There’s a vicious cycle between mental illness and not living a life worth living. And Substance Abuse Disorder is a mental illness. These people need assistance. And when we have this infrastructure in place, we could build shelters with police preventing crime for the people who don’t want assistance
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u/lizerlfunk 6d ago
My late husband was a mental health technician at a Baker Act receiving facility from 2006-2007. (Baker Act = the law in Florida permitting involuntary hospitalization for people whose mental health is making them a danger to themselves or others.) He saw the same unhoused people over and over and over again. They’d get arrested, get Baker Acted, held for 72 hours, get back on their meds, be stable, be released once the 72 hours was up, and they don’t have anywhere to go or any way of staying on their meds. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Maybe if they had help with achieving a stable living situation it would be easier to break the cycle.
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u/RandeKnight 5d ago
Where 'regular' people don't go.
So under bridges, the ends of alleys, any forested areas where they can't easily be seen. Abandoned buildings are popular.
So places that aren't inner cities or suburbs.
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u/UInferno- 5d ago
I compare supporting the homeless population to lifting a couch. The more people who help carry the couch, the lighter it becomes for everyone. But not helping carry the couch is always easier than helping, so you personally are incentivized to sit out. However, when you sit out, it becomes harder for everyone to carry, which only pushes them to stop helping. Unfortunately, the couch needs to be carried regardless. So if someone goes "Fuck it, this couch needs to be moved," and tries to pick it up, people will see them doing something and go "Thank God someone else is handling this, so I don't have to," despite the fact that if they did help out it'd be easier for everyone.
If every part of a city had soup kitchens and shelters, there would maybe be... a couple dozen at most per shelter, it'd be easier to manage and the homeless presence wouldn't be as noticeable. However, you will have to put up with some homeless presence, and NIMBY's do not like that. So neighborhoods kick them out instead. When a neighborhood does try to create support for homeless, everyone else takes it as a sign that they don't need to try because they can just dump all of their homeless on the ones who do. This unfortunately stretches their limits, making it hard to manage and causing a larger mess for the neighborhood. Other neighborhoods see this mess and go "this is why we shouldn't do it or else we'll end up like them."
Tragedy of the Commons and what not. If every part of the city has homeless support so it's spread out evenly, the invidual burden for every center is lighter. There's no large scale homeless encampments, and the average person might see... a couple homeless people in their neighborhood. Unfortunately, people prefer to see zero homeless in their neighborhood, and so many places get all of the homeless.
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u/Jennysnumber_8675309 6d ago
It is an interesting take to say that mentally ill people don't belong in a facility receiving treatment and that they are better off on the street fending for themselves. Understandably there have been times in our history where the institutional model was a failed one, but the current "just leave them alone and let the congregate anywhere" model seems quite cruel. Especially in colder climates. This topic needs some real examination...not just feel good "leave them alone" platitudes.
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u/jmnugent 6d ago edited 6d ago
As an older person, the biggest problem I see in society is we just keep sort of “round robin’ing” around different solutions, none of which are very humane or effectively implemented. By the time a generation passes, we start over again on the same list of failed ideas. Nobody seems to want to prioritize this problem and apply effective solutions.
EDIT.. you see this same kind of problem in businesses that have high employee turnover. They just kind of keep stumbling over the same ideas circularly without really making much headway.
When I do problem-solving,. I try to remember there's ultimately 3 ways I can do it:
solve the problem just for myself.
solve the problem for me and those around me.
solve the problem for me, those around me,. and those who come along in time after me.
Effective and long term solutions,. should be intuitive (or properly documented) in such a way that someone 5, 10, 20 or 30 years from now can look at it and easily see,. "Ah,. I see why they did that in the way they did it"
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u/0O1lIil0O1lIil 6d ago
I know someone who would get herself admitted to the city psychiatric hospital. She said the employees there always treated her nicer than the ones at the shelter
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u/sweadle 6d ago
Most of the long term facilitirs have closed. The best they csn get now is 36 hours in the psych ward.
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u/Maleficent-Party-607 5d ago
The fallacy is that people seem to assume there are treatments that will magically fix the mental health issues driving most homelessness to a degree that allows them to work and live normally. The argument usually goes something like “we just need to devote the resources to make it happen.” It would be nice if it were that easy.
I think the reality is most of these disorders do not have treatments that are even remotely curative. Medicine simply has no way to fix these people to a degree that allows them to function normally in society. Sure, we have pills that might take the edge off, but in most cases people are still extremely impaired.
If I’m right, we have two options (until medicine finds better treatments). First, we keep doing what we are doing and let these folks continue to wreak havoc in cities. Second, we can institutionalize them and hopefully do a better job at in than in the past. The thing we cannot currently do is give them a pill that magically makes them productive members of society.
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u/GreasyPorkGoodness 6d ago edited 5d ago
Homelessness can’t be painted as a single issue. It is multi faceted and will require a multi faceted approach.
Most people experiencing housing instability seek resources and shelters. These folks need more and deserve more but are largely invisible to everyday people.
Panhandlers in business districts are often not actually homeless, rather they are addicts living in very low income apartments often together sometimes illegally.
Encampments are largely comprised of addicts and severely mentally ill individuals.
Panhandlers and encampments are what people generally object to. There is very good reason to object to them - they are more dangerous and they massively downgrade the quality of life for people living around them. No one wants to hear that, but it is true.
This group of people is extremely difficult to deal with because they frequently will refuse services.
Treatment for someone mentally ill and for somebody addicted to drugs or alcohol are two very separate things.
Addicts should probably be treated with a much firmer hand. “Waste your life if you want but you can’t do it here and you can’t fund it by panhandling and theft in this community”
Mentality ill, in the absence of family should probably be institutionalized.
Personally, I find forcing an addicts and the mentally ill to live outside and in trap houses far less humane and much more disgusting than compelling them into treatment or a mental health facility.
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u/RightEquineVoltNail 6d ago
I agree. When mental care facilities and forced institutionalization were abolished, it swung way too far the other direction. It should have been more nuanced with an option for forced institutionalization of the truly incapable or dangerous persons.
Most of society seems to lack the mental fortitude necessary to make the hard choices.
Had that happen properly, among other criminal justice issues being handled better, I'd hopefully have fewer dead friends and acquaintances who were murdered by the criminally mentally ill.
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u/Cop10-8 6d ago edited 6d ago
Sweeps generally happen after quality of life complaints (massive trash piles, needles, human waste, fire hazards, and petty theft). It's possible to be homeless without attracting much attention. As long as you stay out of sight down in greenspaces, go light, go solo, and regularly move, you will probably be okay. On the other hand, if you set up in a prominent place with dozens of others and trash the entire area...you're gonna have a bad time and be asked to move along.
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u/IZCannon 6d ago
They're "supposed" to either die or become prison labor until they die
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u/ethosnoctemfavuspax 5d ago
Yes- no one else has brought up that criminalizing homelessness = more prisoners = more legal slave labor
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u/jennnfriend 5d ago
And its getting more and more explicit.
"Housing and affordability crisis! Let's make it illegal to be homeless."
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u/dookiebuttslipnslide 6d ago
I was talking to a hotel barista who was a conspiracy buff, and she suggested that the government was trying to kill them with fentanyl, and honestly after the crack epidemic in black neighborhoods in the 80s, I can't say it would be beneath them.
Would be more cost effective than rehabilitation.
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u/According-Raspberry 6d ago
Wow. That actually makes sense. I can see that happening.
The way that in other countries, bags of grain being distributed to the hungry are being mixed with narcotic powder, to get rid of them.
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u/StormMaleficent6337 6d ago
Damn, what countries is this going on in?
I believe it, but just curious… sorta sounds like India, because they used to do the forced sterilizations
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u/Inner_Butterfly1991 6d ago
The shelters are not full that's just a lie. I have a friend that works for a nonprofit that fights homelessness and carried around fliers with info on all the local shelters that have empty beds and will provide a place to sleep with climate controls and a hot meal. She hands them out to homeless people begging for money and has occasionally had a positive reaction but it's mostly negative. Most homeless people you see on the street are there by choice and don't want to stay in a shelter. Every city in the country has shelters with empty beds. Again the shelters being full is just a blatant lie that no one who actually understands the situation would agree with.
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u/StormMaleficent6337 6d ago
This is definitely true
When I was in and out of shelters for basically 2 years in my early 20s, there were ALWAYS empty beds… for single males and females, and also for families
Every night, summer or winter, there’d be beds, it was never truly full, and even when it was, it’d stay full for 1-2 nights and even when it was full they’d pull out an extra bunk for the night if someone was desperate or had kids
A big reason for this is because I was in NYC, where we have Code Blue laws… you call up 311, and they will put any homeless in a hotel for the night when it’s below 33 degrees… a lot of people did that instead of a shelter, because at a motel/hotel you will have your own room and bathroom, can mingle with other homeless people, and if you want drugs and/or sex, you can usually get them cheap or for free (because people are so lonely)… the shelter won‘t put up with those things, and the bathrooms are communal
So shelters in the winter usually have many empty beds, but homeless people grow to reject shelters a lot of times and would rather rough it on the streets
Especially old people, in my experience… too stubborn and too readily accepting death, so they’d rather be on their “own feet” sleeping in an alleyway then feel like they are helpless at a shelter giving them food and a bed
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u/mega_vega 5d ago
In my city (major Texas city) all of the shelters are full with waitlists unfortunately. Very area dependent.
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u/plazebology 6d ago
The government is essentially just holding out for the rapture at this point
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u/Matt_Benatar 6d ago
Just a pile of stinky clothes left on the sidewalk in front of Burger King.
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u/SignificantBid2705 6d ago
Our country didn't have a serious homeless problem until the Reagan administration. There were a few homeless people who were mostly homeless by choice, but most had access to some kind of low-income or subsidized housing. The country stopped investing enough in this kind of housing in the 80s. Much of what existed was not up to code and had to be vacated, and it was not replaced, at least not at rates that kept up with population. Add to that growing inequality. A large number of homeless people are employed. Shelters have rules about when you can enter and leave that interfere with the hours of many homeless people. This leads to people living in tents or, if they have them, vehicles.
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u/BibliophileWoman1960 6d ago
Reaganomics was the beginning of the end of this country.
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u/neversplitace 5d ago
Ronald Wilson Reagan name has six letters each 666 and people say the devil isn’t real smh
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u/tibastiff 6d ago
For most people the answer is "where I don't have to worry about them" if you ask the cabal the answer is"prison labor camps"
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u/UnusualHoneydew1625 5d ago
The local hospital here sent a teenager that they KNEW did not have any money, any family on this side of the Mississippi River or even any form of picture ID out on the streets with four brand new psychiatric medications and a “Good luck, kid.”
He literally couldn’t even stay overnight in a homeless shelter without a picture ID… but they aren’t paid enough to care what happens to him after he’s discharged.
Frankly, they aren’t even paid enough to care what happens to him BEFORE he’s discharged if they start him on four new psych meds at one time.
The perils that the unhoused face in this nation is at crisis levels.
And 99% of Americans could not give less of a shit. :(
They go to church every Sunday and pray for people who are less fortunate but when it comes to putting actual effort into their faith… they can’t be bothered.
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u/Possible_Resolution4 6d ago
I don’t think it’s because shelters are full, it’s that they don’t want to live in the shelter.
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u/Ok_Cod4125 6d ago
I have found it is a mix of both those things. Some don't want to go to the shelter because their stuff can not be stored and it is at risk of being stolen or trashed. Shelters also can be dangerous, so some folks would rather risk being in a hidey hole they have made for themselves in the woods or a building. And some do not want to abide by the shelter rules, so stay on the street. However, where I am, the teen shelter and women's shelter is full. Teenagers and women have to risk getting to the shelter and finding out there isn't a space, and then try to get back to their previous spot, hoping it hasn't been taken.
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u/Name213whatever 6d ago
Many will not go to a shelter because they can't take their pet as well. Tough choice when it's their only companion, who also keeps them safe
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u/According-Raspberry 6d ago
Shelters are generally awful places. Having known mentally ill and homeless people, nobody I know wanted to go to them. They were scary, uncomfortable, no privacy, smelly, dangerous. Being stuck with a bunch of strangers, at least half whom have a variety of different problems like addiction or mental illness, people with maladaptive behaviors. Going to a shelter was an absolute last resort just to get away from bitter cold or snow or rain, otherwise, no way. Nobody wants to relinquish their autonomy, personal freedom, be around other people where you feel constantly threatened and on guard. When you're already struggling with life and likely with mental illness, you don't have the skills and coping mechanisms to deal with other difficult people and difficult environments, on top of your own problems.
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u/Possible_Resolution4 6d ago
You also can’t get high in a shelter. On the street you can do what you want.
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u/FrankNumber37 6d ago
A lot of homeless folk are addicted to drugs because doing drugs takes the edge off the horror of living in the streets. We would never expect a housed person to kick drugs cold turkey with no support, but then we act like it's a choice to not go to the shelter.
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u/Ok_Cod4125 6d ago
When package/liquor stores status was changed to essential during Covid, I had hoped some folks would become more aware of the issues most alcoholics face when quitting. I'm both shocked and jealous that people have never had to process what withdrawal looks like AND how dangerous it can be.
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u/StormMaleficent6337 6d ago
I was homeless in my early 20s after college
Let me tell you, you don’t want druggies and drunkards in homeless shelters
Mostly because it’s very unfair for the non-addicts who are just homeless and have to live there
The drunks start drinking around noon, every single day… they puke in the bathrooms, they puke in the kitchen and dining area, they puke in the hallways and the lobby… they puke outside on the steps and surrounding sidewalks… they piss all over the bathroom floor and then stumble out, sometimes just passing out in the hallway and not even making it back to heir bunk
The addicts are probably not as bad… they just want to shoot up dope and enter their self-medicated state of bliss in their bed and be left alone… but the problem with them is once they start using again, when they start to get withdrawals, it can be really bad… they’ll be ranting and raving all day and night about crazy shit, they’ll do anything and steal anything to get money for their next needle to feed their arm, and they beg and cry to social workers 24/7
Usually the drunks and addicts get kicked out quickly enough and enter rehab programs somewhere else… then after rehab they are back in some shelter, and they repeat this process forever until they die or by some miracle they get subsidized shelter after being on the list for a while
Human life, this is it… I’m just glad I never had kids and added to all this insanity
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u/ExcitingMoose13 6d ago
Shelter straight up don't exist in many regions, and many towns and cities will actively resist even private construction of them
New Jersey just had a whole legal battle that ended in a church attempting to build one giving up, which would have been the only actual homeless shelter in two neighboring counties
There's no real question why so many end up in New york, Or San francisco, or anywhere else that isn't actively chasing them off the streets
It's because so many suburban and rural areas drive them out
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u/Late-Button-6559 6d ago
Saying the quiet part out loud (according to govt) - they’re supposed to die quietly and out of public view.
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u/Warmbly85 5d ago
Most of the time shelters have capacity it’s just you can’t drink smoke do drugs or fight in them.
That alone accounts for a decent chunk of the homeless sleeping on the street.
Almost every city has a program that will get you off the streets and into an apartment in almost no time but again they come with stipulations a lot of homeless people find impossible.
About 20% of homeless honestly need medical and psychiatric intervention it’s just we don’t really have long term care options.
Most homeless people aren’t on the streets and aren’t homeless for more than 6 months. We do a pretty good job of giving that type of homeless help because it’s normally standard functioning adults who just had some bad luck and can navigate the assistance programs on their own.
We definitely need to help that other group more I just don’t know how you do it without state funded psychiatric hospitals and massive amounts of oversight on those facilities
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u/HealthyEducator6735 5d ago
This should be the top comment.
I'm a cop in Florida and the amount of resources available to them is plenty.
Whenever I asked them why they choose to be out here, they say it's easy.
They refuse services and when the begging doesn't work, they turn to committing crimes (mostly thefts) but also robberies and burglaries as well, which is more severe and puts random victims'lives in danger for no reason other than getting some money for liquor or drugs.
I know people say it's a mental issue, but unfortunately we can't force people to mentally change.
The majority of homeless that become homeless due to bad luck and want to bounce back have had great success. The ones that refuse to help themselves are the ones you see outside everyday.
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u/supersillygooser 6d ago
They’ll go wherever they can stay while being as close to resources as possible. The irony of kicking them out of urban areas and parks is they’ll have to move to suburban areas. Like, would these people rather have homeless on the sidewalk downtown or in their backyard?
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u/ExcitingMoose13 6d ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_homeless_relocation_programs_in_the_United_States
The whole reason there are so many in urban areas already is the suburbs drove them out, along with many other cities
The handful that try and allow them to exist and up with the other 80% of the countries homeless
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u/AliMcGraw 6d ago
We have a couple in my suburb, the commuter train station is a 24-hour warming/cooling shelter, so they often sleep in there. During the daytime one of them likes to go to the library and quietly read, the other one just kind of walks around town with his dog. They don't bother anybody. Local merchants will often give them food they're about to throw out. Neither of them begs, but the guy with the dog will beg for his dog.
They both seem pretty aware that interacting with people is likely to get them in trouble, so they don't. The local police are well aware of them, and while they will go hassle other beggars (who may or may not be homeless), they generally leave these two guys alone. I know the town social worker talks to them fairly regularly, and checks up on them. My impression is that the one with the dog won't go in a shelter cuz none of them will let him take his dog, the other guy is really quiet and seems really afraid of other people, so I think he just wants to be left alone. I assume they both have mental health challenges, but I don't know that.
But yeah, two seems like a number that my little town can deal with; if there were dozens and dozens it would be a problem I think.
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u/supersillygooser 6d ago
Homeless people get generalized to be harassing, ranting meth heads. A shame that those who are conscientious and just trying to get by are lumped into the same category by virtue of not having a place to live.
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u/vanillablue_ 6d ago
In Colorado, they can set up in front of your purchased house if there is a bit of grass in between the street and your sidewalk.
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u/hatred-shapped 6d ago
That's the sticky question that no one regardless of political party seems to have an answer for. Letting people live on the street is inhumane. Putting them in prison is unjust.
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u/Palocles 6d ago
If you look at countries which have actually helped the homeless properly… they made homes for them. Small apartments.
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u/Silent_Chemistry8576 6d ago
This is a major issue that has been around forever. Money that is supposed to be used for them is laundered by politicians and companies contracted to do the job. About a tiny fraction of it makes it to the intended purpose. This is why many states with massive homeless populations and get money from the state or federally need to be audited all of the politicians aswell. They've been stealing your money and making you feel bad you didn't donate more. Yes you won't get every homeless person to want to get back on their feet due to mental, emotional or drug issues but you can help the ones that will stay clean. Take for example CA the governor NewScum is setting it up to be massive wealth gap between the rich and poor almost homeless. Blackrock buying up land illegally and paying politicians too keep their mouths shut. Think judge Dredd mega poor cities and the rich are away from the rabble with their paid security. This is why you never believe any of the politicians about homelessness unless you actually see real change. They are lying to you while stealing your tax dollars.
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u/infinite_gurgle 6d ago
Questions like these and posts like these are filled with a lot of people with big hearts but literally no experience with homeless people.
“Allow them community and a place to go!” And those places are owned by people who do not want them there. That’s not a solution.
“We need to fund..!” We do. The US collectively spends billions on the homeless a year.
“They are just people..!” Yes and most of them are severely mentally unwell and/or strung up addicts that are very dangerous if you catch them in the wrong moment.
The mentally well homeless get help and stop being homeless very quickly. There are resources, places to go, and people desperately willing to help anyone that asks. Most homeless do not want help (or, more accurately, cannot ask for help). This is their life and no it’s not our job to guide and protect them. Unless you’re willing to forcibly put these people into camps or mental wellness facilities all we can do is deal with their way of life.
So to answer the question, no where. I don’t want them anywhere. Get help, or be invisible.
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u/CraftsArtsVodka 6d ago
Many cities have a lot of beds available in shelters but the homeless don't want to go there because there are rules they don't want to abide by.
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u/SorryImBadWithNames 6d ago
So, there is the idealistic answer, the real answer, and the fascists answer.
The idealistic answer is that they should go to homeless shelters, or some charity organization or other institution that would give them the tools to get their life back together. That might mean a rehab center if they are drug addicts, a psychiatric hospital if they struggle with mental health, and the afore mentioned homeless shelter if they need a place to crash the night after spending the day trying to get a job that would pay them enough to live on their own.
As anyone that actually worked in those places will tell, however, this is just not realistic. Shelters have limited beds. Rehab centers and hospitals can't just force people to stay. Not to mention problems that range from a lack of funds all the way to outright abuse from staff, making those places have a reputation as not safe for the exact public they should serve. And then there are people that just... don't want help. Be it dues to past bad experiences, mental health issues, or just being one of the rare cases that actually want to stay homeless.
The thing is: people don't really care for nuance. The real answer for the question is that people just want the homeless gone. Ideally to a place they can get help, yes, but if they just disapear of the streats most people won't exactly ask questions. The homeless are percieved as both a security and hygenic problem, so people would be happy even if all the government did was round them all in a van and ship the people to the next town over (as it has been done multiple times in my country). Out of sight, out of mind, you know?
Then there are the really fucked up people, that will not only see homelessness as a moral failure, but one that deservers the capital punishment. Where should the homeless go? To 6 feat under, that's where. Hence why I call this the fascists answer.
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u/Old_Dragonfruit6952 5d ago
Keep in mind please that some homeless people have an aversion to shelters
They are crowded , loud and busy. If you have MI then that is a reason why you don't want to be there .. shelters are " dry" so a drinker or one addicted to drugs will most likely wont go .
They arent barrier free
So the homeless move deeper into the woods . They go to abandoned buildings . Abandoned cars .
They are at great risk but feel safer there.
Outreach workers cant find them for health checks and to offer more permanent warm spaces .
Welcome to America .. where the majority of us ate just " 3 paychecks away" from homelessness .
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u/Lost-Willingness-220 6d ago
This doesn't answer the exact question, but from my time living in Southern California, I'd put the homeless in that area in these categories: 1. Truly mentally ill people, 2. People hardcore addicted to drugs and alcohol who can't hold down a job, 3. People temporarily suffering a devastating financial situation who lost their home/apt, 4. Adults/children fleeing an abusive relationship with no where to go,/ Victims fleeing human / sex trafficking, 5. Creative people who want to be the next Jack Kerouac like the Christopher McCandless of "Into the Wild", Lil Peep, 6. Recent college grads not ready for adult life who want beachfront tent living. 7. Grifters: I know personally a few high school kids and MLM folks who live in their car or sleep on someone's couch for a few days so they can check the box "Have you ever been homeless?" on the college app or use the rags to riches story to hook people into their MLM.
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u/Lucky-Volume-57 6d ago
Yes. There are too many variables to create a one-size solution.
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u/karoshikun 5d ago edited 5d ago
facetious as it sounds in the replies, the operative word for the public and even the politicians is "somewhere else".
as someone who has been homeless, tho, I can tell you that "somewhere else" actually means "die", they just want the homeless to go disappear, they are just too spineless to actually say so openly and instead sugar coat it for the public.
also, every raid into a homeless camp means wounded people, do you think they actually give them medical care beyond some very basic bandaids? nah, we just don't know how many people dies afterwards because a dead homeless is no news at all, but rather a relief, and don't lie, that's how people feels about them.
one more thing:
that whole "but they are mentally ill, durrrrrr" bullshit, well, no kidding, try spending months living as a subhuman, after losing all your relationships and possessions and your mind will start to twist even if it wasn't before. those are the kind of scars that take a long time to heal, if ever. I was homeless from 13 to 21, and at 49 I still have daily nightmares and still live in permanent survival mode, and can't stand being in posh places.
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u/Butane9000 6d ago
The majority of the homeless don't stay that way forever.
The long term homeless are usually suffering from mental illness or drug abuse. Both of which can be solved by returning the mentally ill to long term psychiatric care and getting drug abusers into rehabilitation programs.
States can and should create community housing & work programs to help get homeless people off the streets quicker. The issue is government tends to be inefficient and wasteful so these need to be watched for abuse.
While this doesn't apply to everyone you can move back in with family. Usually you'd take this step prior to becoming homeless.
Some of these require significant discussions regarding weighing people's freedoms and rights over the public good. Which is a long running debate of society as a whole.
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u/Internal-Syrup-5064 6d ago
In the USA, there's often an element of personal choice in remaining homeless. My homeless friends often rejected aid, and simply we're unwilling to do the work to get off the street.
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u/Quirky-Film-5866 6d ago
My full time job won't keep me off the street if I was alone.
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u/Tundrakitty 6d ago
Yes. Despite my education and all that privilege I had to get to where I am, I could not afford my modest home on my wages if I was alone.
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u/LifeIsButADream11111 6d ago
They’re going to be sent to Trump and RFK Jr’s “Wellness Farms” where they’ll pick vegetables and detox from drugs. These farms are going to end up being concentration camps, so you get the picture.
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u/Reverend_Bull 6d ago
"Away". We think of them like household trash - it goes magically "away" to another place where it ceases to exist. But as anyone who's ever lived downstream of a landfill can tell you, "away" is just someone else's neighborhood.
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u/apoplectic_apostate 5d ago
In the US, the issue with the homeless will never be solved because of Horatio Alger and the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" fallacy. Most Americans believe that homeless lack determination and motivation. Ronald Regan coined the term "welfare queen" which, from a marketing perspective, was catchy. I have family members who think everyone on welfare is lazy. They have no understanding of generational poverty, mental illness or drug addiction, which they regard as personal flaws. Until you change that, you can only put bandaids on the problem.
Edit to answer the question "where do they go". Somewhere the normies won't see them.
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u/EulerIdentity 5d ago
If someone is camped out on my front lawn, I'm entitled to tell them to leave. I don't have an obligation to find somewhere else for them to go before telling them to leave. They are supposed to go to wherever they can lawfully go and can afford.
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u/CauliflowerHealthy20 6d ago
The government wants to criminalize homelessness so they can put them all in prison. Once they're in prison they will be leased out to companies for cheap labor, basically modern slavery.
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u/mortalmonger 5d ago
This is hard to answer as homeless is not a good description. There are lots of types of homelessness and until we can talk about homelessness that way it’s not something we can solve. Here is a good example:
-a homeless veteran fighting mental health issues -a mother and toddler son fleeing domestic violence -an LGBTQIA teen kicked out by his family for being xxxxx -a drug addict -a man who lost his apartment and living in his car while working -a bipoler woman refusing to take her meds and hallucinating and paranoid -a sex offender that has done his time and can’t find housing due to being a sex offender
Literally there is no “one place” all these people should go…
Homeless is the state you are in because of some other problem or choice….until we speak of homelessness by discussing the causes of homelessness and how we can prevent or mitigate those causes we are not solving anything. It would be like a doctor giving the same cure to everyone in a hospital and then being perplexed why the insulin didnt heal all the asthma and cancer patients…..