Where are the homeless supposed to go?

[u/Garey_Coleman]

Cities have been cracking down on homeless people so they can’t have encampments or stay on sidewalks. At the same time usually the shelters are full. So those who are unable to get into a shelter, where are they supposed to go?

[u/Jennysnumber_8675309]

It is an interesting take to say that mentally ill people don't belong in a facility receiving treatment and that they are better off on the street fending for themselves. Understandably there have been times in our history where the institutional model was a failed one, but the current "just leave them alone and let the congregate anywhere" model seems quite cruel. Especially in colder climates. This topic needs some real examination...not just feel good "leave them alone" platitudes.

[u/jmnugent → u/Jennysnumber_8675309]

As an older person, the biggest problem I see in society is we just keep sort of “round robin’ing” around different solutions, none of which are very humane or effectively implemented. By the time a generation passes, we start over again on the same list of failed ideas. Nobody seems to want to prioritize this problem and apply effective solutions.

EDIT.. you see this same kind of problem in businesses that have high employee turnover. They just kind of keep stumbling over the same ideas circularly without really making much headway.

When I do problem-solving,. I try to remember there's ultimately 3 ways I can do it:

• solve the problem just for myself.

• solve the problem for me and those around me.

• solve the problem for me, those around me,. and those who come along in time after me.

Effective and long term solutions,. should be intuitive (or properly documented) in such a way that someone 5, 10, 20 or 30 years from now can look at it and easily see,. "Ah,. I see why they did that in the way they did it"

[u/Ra_Lotsawa → u/jmnugent]

I used to be a teacher, the same thing happens in education. In my opinion, "Society" doesn't exist (if by that you mean a single agent capable of making decisions and solving problems).

I wouldn't say that "we" are doing the same things over and over again. It's more like there are many different groups of people with different goals (both between generations, and within generations). If you are not personally part of an organization that tries to do something, you aren't part of any "team" that is making mistakes. You definitely should try to learn from past success, but the things that you count as "successes" are going to be based on your specific goals in the present because there is no such thing as a "universal human goal". Maybe there should be, but factually there isn't.

[u/jmnugent → u/Ra_Lotsawa]

Probably a dynamic mixture of both, to be sure !... (both, "repeated circular bad ideas". .and also "goals or definition of success changing").

What's also true I guess,. is sometimes information and tools change,. so the "thing you tried 10 years ago"... could possibly work if tried again today if the tools and technology are better (or you do it in a different order that's more aligned to work successfully).

I see some of those mistakes being made on the problem of homelessness. But I think to some degree "fixing the homeless problem" is (in some ways) a bit cleaner and clearer in that people simply need better services. Giving a homeless guy a blanket and a sack lunch every day - isn't enough to fully lift him out of homelessness. (assuming he wants to of course)

I think to solve the homeless problem we (as a society) would likely need to do multiple things simultaneously:

• We need to "stop the bleeding" (IE = find ways to stop people from falling into homelessness).. so better supportive services for "at risk" people at the bottom of society. If we can reduce the production of new homeless people,. that's 1 aspect that helps.

• then for all the people on the street.. I think we could potentially get the "easy wins" (the people who don't want to be on the street).. by lifting them out with more comprehensive wrap around services.

• and then after those top 2 phases are working.. we'd hopefully only be left with drug addicts or criminals on the run or other people basically "hiding in anonymity on the street" and eventually they'll solve their own problem (they'll need hospital care or etc) and we'll eventually whittle that down too.

It's not a perfect plan,. but I personally don't think I've seen any nationwide organization approach that way (I'm sure due to lack of resources among others things)

If a system like that existed,. and all the data within it was publicly available ,. I'd support it. (Bonus point if they had some kind of "mentorship" or "sponsorship" type option where I could be matched with a homeless person, help fund their rejuvenation and meet up and basically "big brother - big sister" type support lifting. )

[u/Ok-Chest-7932 → u/jmnugent]

That's all we can really do because the harsh fact of the matter is that some people just kind of fail. There will always be a small number of people who aren't able in any form to participate in society and any program for sustaining them is going to have elements of cruelty that are going to make people want to try something else. The only completely humane solution is to poor endless money into the pit of letting people indulge their drug addictions, because when you provide reasonable investment these are the only people who remain homeless long term, and that's not really good for anyone.

[u/jmnugent → u/Ok-Chest-7932]

Sure,. but part of what I'm saying is if we build up the safety-net to be stronger in other areas of society, whatever small number of people choose to opt out won't be as big of a problem.

And I don't just mean a better safety-net like "better shelters" and "better free food options".. I mean better streets, improved street lights, better security systems, more cameras, stronger walls and windows etc. Basically make it so the small number of people who might at some point feel compelled to steal or damage things -- cannot. Things have to be "not so easy to break" so to speak.

If someone wants to live as a vagabond out on the edges of society (or out on the edges of a city). That's fine. I think they should have the freedom to do that. But we should also shore up the things we do have in society so that theres:

• only 1 path to re-entering

• and all other paths are so hardened and secured that they can't be easily impacted.

[u/Ok-Chest-7932 → u/jmnugent]

Yeah, sure, but my city already did that, we actually have an excess of social housing reserved for the homeless at the moment. Might not have enough in 10 years if the economy goes further down the drain, but for now that's true. We still have a homeless problem because it was only a small percentage of homeless in the first place who were a problem.

And reinforcing entire cities is probably a lot more expensive than just putting the criminals in jail.

[u/Jabroniville2 → u/jmnugent]

What screwups do you see in businesses with high turnover?

[u/jmnugent → u/Jabroniville2]

There's just less team cohesion. If you have a lot of "institutional knowledge" walking out the door,. the people who are left (and or new people you hire).. may not know "how the business works" or why you do certain things in certain ways. If you've ever worked on a team that has high cohesion and is a group of people who have worked together for 5, 10, 15 years.. they know each other really well and communication and collaboration is almost effortless. In new teams, you dont' really have that.

I'm seeing this a lot in my new job (and I"ve been here 2 years now).. where I'll get assigned some ticket or task and I'll start searching around or asking around to other people .. and I'd say 50% to 75% of people I ask (internally) have no idea what I'm even asking about. A big chunk of a lot of what I do,. seems to be "figure it out on your own because nobody knows". Sometimes I'll be in meetings where we discuss some idea or goal .. and the meeting ends with a bunch of ToDo's that are not much more than "lets gather more info and meet again in 2 weeks".

This on top of the fact that technology changes so fast,.. even if I do figure something out, sometimes 6months down the road that technology has changed, so what I learned (and whatever documentation I wrote) is now obsolete and has to be ripped out and redone.

I keep joking (but not really joking) that "I wish there was at least 1 to 2 years where NOTHING CHANGED.".. so I could catch a breath and catch up.

[u/StormMaleficent6337 → u/jmnugent]

Humanity is a failed idea

We won‘t be here for much longer, in the grand scheme of biological life on Earth

It’s just not a big deal, but it does suck for those still alive and suffering