Where are the homeless supposed to go?

[u/Garey_Coleman]

Cities have been cracking down on homeless people so they can’t have encampments or stay on sidewalks. At the same time usually the shelters are full. So those who are unable to get into a shelter, where are they supposed to go?

[u/According-Raspberry]

Shelters are generally awful places. Having known mentally ill and homeless people, nobody I know wanted to go to them. They were scary, uncomfortable, no privacy, smelly, dangerous. Being stuck with a bunch of strangers, at least half whom have a variety of different problems like addiction or mental illness, people with maladaptive behaviors. Going to a shelter was an absolute last resort just to get away from bitter cold or snow or rain, otherwise, no way. Nobody wants to relinquish their autonomy, personal freedom, be around other people where you feel constantly threatened and on guard. When you're already struggling with life and likely with mental illness, you don't have the skills and coping mechanisms to deal with other difficult people and difficult environments, on top of your own problems.

[u/RememberTheKracken → u/According-Raspberry]

I hear this a lot on Reddit, that shelters don't fill up because they're dangerous, but it doesn't really make logical sense. I believe homeless people say that, but how is living in a tent city with trash, addicts, and literal human waste on the ground cleaner or less dangerous than a shelter? At least the shelters don't allow obviously drugged up people to disturb the others and they'll call the cops if someone gets violent. It seems the real difference is being able to do drugs. I'll give you that shelters are more dangerous for someone who normally sleeps in their car or a group of friends that found a hiding spot together but what about the tent cities?

[u/StormMaleficent6337 → u/RememberTheKracken]

You are absolutely correct

The shelters are NOT more dangerous than the streets themselves

Workers at the shelter were pretty vigilant in calling the cops whenever a violent situation broke out or someone with mental issues was going absolutely apeshit… the cops are used to this and show up ASAP and the situation boils over and is dealt with

And the shelters are pretty good about drugs and alcohol… they won’t tolerate drunks for long and if you do hard drugs, you’re gone ASAP

The bathrooms are horrific, but it’s a sink, toilet, and shower… you’re not getting that on the street

You’re not getting 3 hot meals a day (and shelter cooks usually go outta their way to cook as much as they can, to help out the people living there)

You’re getting cabinets 24/7 filled with milk, juice, coffee, tea, oatmeal, cereal, and assorted snacks… shelters get this from the state and Uncle Sam easily covers these costs

The issue is homeless people, especially if they are over 60, or have been homeless for a while, usually prefer the streets over a shelter

They just want to smoke cigs, shoot dope, get drunk, and fuck whoever is as lonely and desperate as they are, until they pass out one day and die

They prefer their tent, or alley space, or the building they are squatting in

I’ve seen this 100s of times… if you’re gonna be homeless, might as well be able to fuck, drink, and shoot up without the threat of being “kicked out” somewhere

Staying at a shelter also requires paperwork and going through government services… a lot of times the homeless person won’t have ANY I.D. at all, not even a driver’s license… forget them getting a birth certificate or a SSN card… you need these things for Social Services to allow you to stay long term at a shelter... a lot of times you also need a bank account, so the shelter knows you are indeed broke as fuck and have no source of income

And even if they have these things… they simply hate the government and Social Services, and even tho they’d get shelter, food stamps, and free healthcare through Medicaid, they simply refuse to enter the Social Service offices and fill out the necessary paperwork

If they are in NYC, there are ALWAYS food options… fresh out the dumpster after it was dumped, or people just handing out food and coffee everywhere

Soup lines at the park, food pantries all over, churches of all denominations with a kitchen and canned goods to disperse

You don’t need much food to make the pangs of hunger go away

These people don’t care about their health, so not getting Medicaid isn’t a deal breaker for ‘em

The shelter system combined with Social Services can really work out well and help people get back on their feet, but it happens maybe 10% of the time… 90% of the people who enter into this cycle stay there forever, much to their own behavior and attitude

[u/According-Raspberry → u/RememberTheKracken]

The people I know that were homeless did not live in tent cities. They were loners. They were also not addicts. They either had mental illness and/or were just poor and/or disabled. They did not want to be around other people. They wanted to be left alone.

I do see people around here and there who live in groups, and a common theme I do see with them is that they all seem to be on drugs (usually meth heads with the obvious outward symptoms and behaviors.) So yeah, there are differences. People who are on drugs don't care about their health or their safety or their privacy as much. They wouldn't care about grouping up in a shelter. But they would want to keep engaging in unhealthy and unsafe behaviors, and drama. Those were the people that the people I knew were afraid of being around.

Those groups also seem to collaborate together to function. Like in my medium sized area, there are encampments around some grocery stores and fast food restaurants. You see them all hang out together and taking turns panhandling and approaching people in parking lots and local businesses. Occasionally they get up money and get cheap motel rooms nearby. Everyone knows the motels are for drug addicts and prostitutes.

One of the people I know did live in a slovenly, unclean, unhealthy way. It was about control, autonomy, power, safety, paranoia, fear. It was a mess, but it was his mess. He knew where everything was and controlled the area and all of his things. He felt safe there. He did not feel safe around strangers or exposed to other people or having to work within systems and rules.

[u/StormMaleficent6337 → u/According-Raspberry]

Yes, the non-addicts usually just want to be left alone and don’t want squatter groups or shelters

Shelters a lot of times also require people staying there to enter work programs, unless they are a vet who gets monthly income from their service time

Many homeless people, addicts and non-addicts alike, simply do not want to work, and will prefer to live and die on their own rules and in their own controlled area (as you put it)

The couple shelters I stayed at in NYC would eventually make any non-disabled person enter a work program, and if you didn’t show up or complete the training, you lost housing and food stamps

The amount of people (single men and women but also families) who didn’t care about this at all and purposefully never did these programs, was astonishing

They’d eventually get kicked out, blame the shelter or say the work programs was a scam, and then start squatting somewhere until their sanction was up and could return to a shelter

Even with kids in tow, they just didn’t care

The employment programs weren’t perfect, but as long as you showed up you got to keep shelter and food

I remember when I went to mine, people from all walks of life were there to keep benefits, include a doctor who lost his license and was now shit outta luck

[u/robertbieber → u/According-Raspberry]

It's wild how harshly people will judge strangers for not wanting to go to a shelter that they themselves would never in a million years want to sleep in

[u/Wampalog → u/robertbieber]

Most people make decisions so they don't have to make that choice.

[u/Ambtastic98 → u/Wampalog]

Yeah, just "decide" not to get laid off and you won't be homeless! Just "decide" not to get cancer. "Decide" not to lose your home in a fire.

Most homeless people have jobs. Most homeless people are just in bad scenarios or unlucky times. There are no decisions you can make that will protect you against bad luck. Savings run out, "good" jobs lay off thousands without notice, medical debt builds up fast.

Count your blessings you've been so privileged as to be this ignorant.