r/NoStupidQuestions • u/[deleted] • Jul 19 '20
Answered Why Do People Attempt to Push My Wheelchair Without My Permission, Then Get Offended and Put Off When I Tell Them No? What Can I Do To Stop It?
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u/Secret_agent_nope Jul 19 '20
Hey OP. My sister is in a wheelchair and we had this exact conversation. She would get pissed and other stuff when people would want to help.
As her brother, it’s the most important thing in the world for her to be comfortable in her own skin and be like everyone else. What I didn’t realize is when I would want to help push her wheelchair, I was taking that normal feeling away from her.
So I’d basically stopped doing it and would only ask in situations like going up or down a steep incline. But even then, I’d wait for her to say “help me asshole” or I’d only help her a little so she would do most of the work. That’s her personality though.
In public situations, people just want to “help” her. So she started just saying things like, “I like to do that myself”, or “I got it” in a polite way. For me, she would go, “stranger danger!” And that seemed to work.
OP, people want to help, and they just don’t know how, so they do it wrong. You gotta train them, but remember they have only good intentions and aren’t thinking anything less of you. Hell, my sister is still teaching me.
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u/dudemo Jul 19 '20
As a wheelchair user, the only people I let walk up and push my chair around randomly are my wife and my part time caretaker Tim. If anyone else does it I get really mad really fast.
Look, I know my wheelchair is just an object to someone who doesn't have to use one daily. But for me as a paraplegic, my wheelchair is a part of my body. Its like I've traded the lower half of my useless body for something resembling mobility.
It would be as if someone walked up behind you and just started shoving you wherever they thought you should be without asking your permission. Literally just walking up behind you and shoving your back until you moved where they wanted you. What would be your reaction? Anger? Offense? A mix of all of them?
I've had legs that work. If someone walked up behind me and just started shoving my back until I moved to where they wanted, I'd probably punch them in the face. But people with legs seem to think that it is OK because I'm in a chair with wheels. I don't understand it.
I'm going to let them do it. When they're done, I'm going to wheel up behind them and start shoving them in the ass because I probably cant reach up high enough to shove their back. And when they ask what the fuck I'm doing, I'm going to reply "Oh, I thought we were playing a game where we push each other wherever the fuck we want. If we aren't, don't touch me or my chair again."
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u/MjrGrangerDanger Jul 19 '20
I'm going to let them do it. When they're done, I'm going to wheel up behind them and start shoving them in the ass because I probably cant reach up high enough to shove their back. And when they ask what the fuck I'm doing, I'm going to reply "Oh, I thought we were playing a game where we push each other wherever the fuck we want. If we aren't, don't touch me or my chair again."
I LOVE this tactic, LOL. I don't use my wheelchair much - I have Ehlers-Danlos, but I hate being moved out of the way like an object, or swifted down the hall when I'm doing just fine. I usually just shame and embarrass, but you found a really creative solution, LOL.
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Jul 19 '20
They need to make the breaks on them much more effective.
The idea still upsets me that people do this. I have HMS and it's going the way that I will need a wheelchair eventually.
Tbh the electric ones are the best. You arent making them move no matter how much you shove. The breaks actually work. You just have to worry about battery issues.
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u/MjrGrangerDanger Jul 19 '20
I had so many arguments with people who insisted upon picking up something I'd dropped whenever I'd reach for it. They could not understand why I wouldn't want help even when I'd explain that I needed to learn to adapt. I'd specifically say "What do I do when you or someone else isn't there?" I'd always get the most confused look in return, as if to say "How are you allowed to be unattended?" As though a wheelchair necessitated a keeper. Some people really are clueless.
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Jul 19 '20
Oh naturally. Someone who can't walk 50m 7 times a day is by law never permitted to be alone.
We all have government appointed keepers. Have you never seen one? Oh right. That's because they don't exist.
:/
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u/rosie29533 Jul 19 '20
dude PLEASE let us know, this sounds so funny. you’ll have to bait someone into doing it...
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u/dudemo Jul 19 '20
I don't want to bait someone into it. It'll happen naturally eventually. Especially grocery stores for some odd reason. Its like people think the store is too large for me to push around a wheelchair and a couple hand baskets (grocery carts are hard for us wheelchair people, yo!) full of groceries. I've had little old ladies offer to push me around or just walk up and move me so they can get to their items like I'm a goddamn grocery cart. Heaven forbid they wait for the guy on wheels to move when it is so much easier to push him out of the way real quick.
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u/rosie29533 Jul 19 '20
omfg imagine shoving an abled person??? like some people honestly. just say excuse me
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u/dudemo Jul 19 '20
Well you see, having a wheelchair means I'm a broken person that doesn't process feelings like a normal person. So it's OK to just push me out of the way because I won't get mad or sad. Besides, what am I going to do?
Run after you? Hah!
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u/rosie29533 Jul 19 '20
ahh ok I see now, next time I see a person in a wheelchair I will feel free to just shove them
spread awareness guys🥰😌💅
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u/dudemo Jul 19 '20
I promise I will shove you back. Except, as I said earlier... I probably can't reach your back unless you are like, 4 foot 2. So I'm going to touch your butt as I shove it out of my way like you did to me.
Fuck, I don't see this ending in my favor. :(
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u/jabby88 Jul 19 '20
So what about in a situation that has nothing to do with their chair: for example, say I'm at a buffet and there is someone in a wheelchair in front of me. They are trying to scoop some corn but are having a hard time reaching it. Obviously you wouldnt just take the spoon and scoop it for them. But is it taking away their feeling of normalcy to ask if they need help?
I was taught from a very young age that you always hold doors for people (men and women), help with luggage, etc, carry something if you can - just all those polite actions. So it makes me very uncomfortable to watch someone struggle with something. However, I recognize that that discomfort is my issue, not anyone else's. So I'm willing to ignore that discomfort if that's the right thing to do for the person, I just want to make doubly sure that it is the right thing to do, because every bone in my body screams "help the poor person!!".
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u/daiquiri-glacis Jul 19 '20
A simple “can I give you a hand?” Should be just fine. Then take no for an answer and continue on with your day if that’s what they say.
I’m an able-bodied woman and would be annoyed if someone insisted he do something I am capable of doing but am grateful if someone lends a hand when my hands are full or whatever
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u/damnyeast Jul 19 '20
Exactly. I have worked in many nursing facilities and this is what you do. Just ask. Do not assume and do not ask while you are pushing them. Just ask! "Hey, can I give you a hand?" "Yes." Or "Nope." Easy as that.
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u/Neuchacho Jul 19 '20
I always look at it this way: If someone gets pissed because I ask if they want help then it's their issue, not mine.
I understand why someone would be annoyed with people asking them if they want help with basic shit or whatever all the time, but if they're struggling, they're struggling and there's no harm in me asking.
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u/Goodgoditsgrowing Jul 19 '20
I really like the idea of her retaliating by calling stranger danger on her sibling lol
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Jul 19 '20
OP, people want to help, and they just don’t know how, so they do it wrong.
This isn't always the case. I've had people move my chair in stores without asking so that they could get something on a rack or shelf that I was actively using. Some people treat you like a piece of furniture to be moved if inconvenient, banking on the assumption that you won't make a scene - then playing the "oh I was just trying to be helpful" victim if you do call them out.
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u/Vee9898 Jul 19 '20
I guess its because most of the people dont know how it feels to sit in a wheelchair. And most of the time people dont think of it as your body and rather as an object that is not u. I personally think its rude to just push someone in their wheelchair without permission and you have all rights to go hard on them and tell them to stop. But i dont think that its rude if someone ask if he/she could help you. For people not knowing what its like in a wheelchair they think you are helpless, since they feel like that when thinking about them in a wheelchair. And for the question of how to stop it: i would put a shield at the back of your wheelchair saying ‘please dont push without permission’ could be affective i think.
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Jul 19 '20 edited Sep 23 '20
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u/archpawn Jul 19 '20
I was also thinking a sign.
This isn't the first time I've heard of this problem, but I have not heard of a way to solve it.
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Jul 19 '20 edited Sep 23 '20
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u/martcapt Jul 19 '20 edited Jul 19 '20
Well, alrighty then, I'll fire off.
You know those punching gloves, and extension contraption you see in cartoons?
Put one in the back of the chair, aimed at more or less waist level (or a little lower).
Whenever someone pushes, press a button to fire it. They'll be in pain and you'll be propelled forwards victorious by the opposing force!
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u/Scarblade Jul 19 '20
Also, if the wheelchair gets tipped over backwards, maybe it can be used to stand itself back up again.
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u/TheRealSamHyde999 Jul 19 '20
Those spiked grips were pretty badass. I think they'll get the message...
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u/whiskeyjane45 Jul 19 '20
There are tons of etsy sellers that make velcro patches customized to whatever you want it to say. You could attach velcro to the back of your chair and customize it with all kinds of patches and at the top, in the biggest font, have it say your message. It will look cool and get your message across
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Jul 19 '20
Have you cross posted this in r/wheelchairs or r/disability?
I will say that with the disability sub there’s equal chance it will just turn into a bitch fest about how horrible “ableds” are, but the wheelchair sub is chill AF.
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u/IncompetentYoungster Jul 19 '20
I mean, they do kinda suck sometimes.
I’m ND, not in a wheelchair, but seriously - anyone who knows I’m ND (teachers, doctors, etc.) will almost always talk to my mom/dad instead of me. I’m 19, ffs, and I might process things slightly slower or need something repeated, but I’m 19. I’m not “invalid” and I don’t want to be talked over, I want to be talked to, like an actual human being
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Jul 19 '20
I’d get a card made up that you can hand out to people that says exactly that. “I may be ND but I’m an adult. It takes a minute for me to process things, but I will understand what you’re saying. Please speak slowly, and to me. Please give me time to respond. Thank you for your patience.”
It’s not something you should have to do, but it might help you gain your independence.
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u/IncompetentYoungster Jul 19 '20
I’ve been pushing for my college to require their teachers to attend a seminar on how to interact with disabled folks because they’re wildly terrible at it, but in the meantime the card might be a great idea
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u/GloriousHypnotart Jul 19 '20
Sorry can I ask, what does ND stand for? I tried googling but it just got me stuff about North Dakota.
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u/IncompetentYoungster Jul 19 '20
Neurodivergent - it’s a term for autistic folks, people with ADHD, and similar disabilities.
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u/LanceFree Jul 19 '20
A sign is a good idea. I have offered to push a couple times- it comes from the heart, actually.
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u/movetoseattle Jul 19 '20
Agreed. I am a "helper" person; at a place I volunteered I was taught courtesy rules for dealing with people of different life situations respectfully, and the lessons made sense, but would not have all occurred to me naturally.
I would read your sign and find it helpful and interesting as well.
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u/deadlyhausfrau Jul 19 '20
I am a service dog handler and let me tell you, people don't read signs. My dog had patches all over his vest saying not to pet and people still pet. Go for the spikes.
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u/aquoad Jul 19 '20
One more point in favor of a service crocodile.
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u/TheOtherSarah Jul 19 '20
I’ve read about the results of tests where service dog handlers would go to the same places on different days, with the dog in and out of their work uniform, and found that people will interact with the dog MORE when it’s obviously working and covered in “Do Not Distract” notices.
People. Service dog vest means it’s doing an important job. It’s potentially dangerous to play with the dog, even hours after you leave, because you’ve broken its focus when it needs to be taking care of its human. Go too far and you could wreck months of training with a five minute ear ruffle or by letting your dog try to play with it. Seriously, don’t even make eye contact.
The dog gets time off and heaps of love, I promise. Let it take care of the person who loves it most.
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u/mdf676 Jul 19 '20
Idk I'm not in a wheelchair and I also think it's incredibly dumb to just try and start pushing someone without asking. That's condescending AF.
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u/MjrGrangerDanger Jul 19 '20
People rarely read signs unfortunately. It's funny that there's often this perception of disabled people being grouchy but if able bodied people understood the shit disabled people have to put up with it would be "how are you in such a good mood‽" Hell really is other people sometimes.
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u/jabby88 Jul 19 '20
I'm really glad you posted this thread. I am someone who would probably screw up in an area like this, because I've never spent much time around someone in a wheelchair. It would certainly be because I was trying to help and just did it in the wrong way, but I see how that would be disrespectful now.
I like the analogy of treating the wheelchair as part of the person's body. That makes it so much more clear for me. Would I just put my hands on someone's shoulders and start pushing? Of course not. So it makes sense you don't touch someone's chair unless they ask you.
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u/momyoucantzoomin Jul 19 '20
Capitalize on it & start selling the signs. If it’s a problem for you, it’s probably a problem for others.
Edit:
Did find this on Etsy. sticker
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u/GodplayGamer Jul 19 '20
What did you mean by it hurting? Did you mean mental or actual physical body pain?
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u/redhairedtyrant Jul 19 '20
It can cause physical pain. Imagine sitting in a regular chair and someone unexpectedly grabs it. Now you're flexing your core muscles to stay balanced. If you're not ready to start moving, you may not be properly positioned or balanced for it.
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u/GodplayGamer Jul 19 '20
I see. I've only ever been in one once and it was to get transported for surgery so I've never experienced sudden movements. Thanks for the explanation.
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u/FunkisHen Jul 19 '20
This, and also as someone who is in constant pain, that tug when I have to tense up really really hurts because I'm already in pain. So that sudden movement makes a new sudden pain. Not fun. It can also then trigger muscle cramps and spasms, which also adds pain.
I think one of the problems is that people use wheelchairs for so many reasons, but a lot of abled people think it's only "legs don't work". It can be so many reasons apart from that. That's how some people can stand up and walk from their wheelchair - they're not faking, and they're not miraculously healed, they're just an ambulatory wheelchair user. Meaning they can move around a bit but need a wheelchair for longer periods. Sort of like how you might be able to walk but for longer stretches you need a bike, car or other transport to get there. I can walk inside mostly, but if I need to go somewhere I need my wheelchair, because my legs would give out quite quickly. But I can get up and move over to the car for example.
Luckily I can tuck my handles in when I don't want anyone to help me, but I think I'd be going for spikes otherwise. Especially now, it's a bloody pandemic, don't touch other people's stuff!
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Jul 19 '20
I would never go up to someone random and touch their wheelchair how do you even do that without feeling awkward af
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u/Toxic_Gorilla Jul 19 '20
And most of the time people dont think of it as your body and rather as an object that is not u
Even then, you don't touch someone else's property without their permission, either.
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u/aquoad Jul 19 '20
As someone without a lot of exposure to the issues around this, it doesn't seem much different to me from shoving or dragging an ambulatory person, and people do that deliberately to start fights.
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u/JapaneseStudentHaru Jul 19 '20
I wouldn’t think it touch someone’s property without permissions like, if an old lady is carrying groceries and I want to help I don’t just grab them. You should ask first.
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u/SLJ7 Jul 19 '20
This reminds me a bit of the way blind people sometimes get treated. People talk to the person next to us about us, randomly yell directions across the street because they think they know where we're going better than we do, occasionally actually grab us or our canes and try to move us somewhere, and often just treat us like we're slow or incapable of basic tasks. It doesn't happen often in my little town, and for the most part, people are good and helpful when they need to be,but I hear horror stories and have experienced a few myself. The bottom line is that there will always be people who project their fears and insecurities onto us, and people who want to feel helpful more than they want to actually help. That second category accounts for the people who get offended when you say no, because if they really cared about doing the right thing, they'd be perfectly content to just carry on going about their day.
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Jul 19 '20 edited Sep 23 '20
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u/White_Khaki_Shorts Jul 19 '20
How does Be My Eyes help? Like what does it do exactly?
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u/PlanningMyEscape Jul 19 '20
I believe it's an app that puts blind people in contact with a sighted person in order to read things. Like if they're at the grocery and want to know what a label says.
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u/White_Khaki_Shorts Jul 19 '20
That makes sense
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u/pinklavalamp Jul 19 '20
Oh it’s amazing! It capitalizes on the features of our smart phones and basically it’s like FaceTiming with a stranger that needs specific help. You can choose whichever languages you want, and I’ve been able to help some awesome people in unique ways. I’m Turkish American, so of course I have English and Turkish selected, and one time a gentleman in rural Turkey was having company over and wanted to make sure his apartment looked nice. With his choppy internet connection he would walk from room to room and I would tell him what needed fixing (drawer or cabinet door open, something on the ground, etc). Took us about fifteen minutes, and when we were about to hang up he said he never got to make sure his family came to a clean house and he was super excited about it and was super appreciative for all the help. I happened to be at my folks house for Sunday brunch, so they were confused and also very intrigued about it, it was awesome. Really had an interesting talk about how people are being creative with how our smart phones really do expand our lives, etc.
The only downside is that there are so many sighted volunteers compared to those who the service. But it’s awesome. I get excited every time I get a notification that someone is calling.
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u/White_Khaki_Shorts Jul 19 '20
Taht does sound awesome! Helping out strangers... I wonder who made this app, they deserve some recognition
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Jul 19 '20 edited Oct 27 '20
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Jul 19 '20 edited Sep 23 '20
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u/milliondollas Jul 19 '20
I’ve been in situations a few times where I’ve gotten hit with a blind person’s cane in a narrow hallway. I never know what I should do in that situation. If I can’t avoid it, should I shout out that I’m to his/her left, or just allow it to hit me so he knows I’m there?
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Jul 19 '20
"excuse me, I'm passing on your left" is probably fine... Just because someone is blind doesn't mean you can't talk to them and let them know you are walking past them. No need to shout or be hit.
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u/SLJ7 Jul 19 '20
There's no "right way" to do that, but saying hi or that you're on their left/right is totally fine. The one thing you shouldn't do is stand there like a deer in the headlights saying and doing nothing; that's how you get caned by even the attentive traveler. Thanks for asking!
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u/vampyrekat Jul 19 '20
May I ask a few questions? I live in a town with an assisted living facility for older blind people, and they often go on walks through town using canes. What’s the best thing for me to do if I see them coming towards me on the sidewalk? I usually try and make a bit more noise since I’m a quiet walker, but I can’t tell if that’s condescending. Do I just hold my course and assume that if I get tapped with the stick it’s okay (I don’t mind, but would they?) or should I be trying to proactively move? Feel free to ignore this if it’s too much, but I’ve wondered this for decades now and haven’t had the chance to ask anyone who’s actually blind.
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u/pollypolite Jul 19 '20
Not blind, but I volunteer with helping blind. Always move out of the way if you can safely do so. If you cannot safely move, say something like "hello" to let them know you are there. If you think they need help, like irregular walking path or crossing a street, ASK if they want any help, and if they do ASK how you can help. Most people who don't know better try to help by grabbing the cane or person's arm and gently push them in the right direction, but most blind people prefer to hold a helper's arm and follow the helper. For example the helper leading slightly gives good clues about going up and down curbs. Talking about obstacles ahead is also usually helpful.
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u/milliondollas Jul 19 '20
I’m glad I’m not the only one who is concerned about this. I asked a similar question in this thread, and people are commenting like I’m an inconsiderate jerk with no social skills.
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u/WrongPassword448 Jul 19 '20
Nothing useful to add, just wanted to say I enjoyed reading your respectful and polite responses to everyone's thoughts. You seem like a top human.
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Jul 19 '20
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Jul 19 '20 edited Sep 23 '20
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u/starlinguk Jul 19 '20
I was going to say that you might need help sometimes. I've just pushed a lady up the hill to the hospital because her taxi didn't show up.
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Jul 19 '20 edited Sep 23 '20
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Jul 19 '20 edited Oct 27 '20
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u/high-bi-ready-to-die Jul 19 '20
Always ask. If someone was struggling to walk you wouldn't just pick them up. It's extremely rude.
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u/MjrGrangerDanger Jul 19 '20
Not just offending but it's easy to catch hands and fingers in wheels and hand grips which fucking hurts.
Not to mention it's fucking terrifying to have someone out of the blue just come up and take control of your transportation. You don't know what's going on, who's doing it, if they're malicious or going to lead you somewhere unsafe or you don't want to go.
It's almost like being picked up and being carried. How would you like that?
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u/BeardedLady81 Jul 19 '20
I know some people take the handles off as a sublime message that they are self-sufficient, but everybody can end up in the situation where he/she needs help from other people. I'd say safety first, and hang up a sign, or if you use the handles for a backpack, make a patch for the backpack with a message. It can help to educate other people, even if they had no intention to push you anywhere.
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u/DingJones Jul 19 '20
Have you considered getting two parrots trained to say “Fuck off” and have them perch on the handlebars?
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u/Heliotrope88 Jul 19 '20
There must be an mechanical way for you to control whether or not the handles are accessible. Seems like something a lot of people would find useful
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u/basic_bitch Jul 19 '20
Do they not fold down? My brother is a really nice dude, but I feel like if some stranger walked up and started pushing him he’d turn around and tell them to fuck off.
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u/JambleJumble Jul 19 '20
There’s probably a way to make them fold down so that they’re not accessible when not in use, with a mod of course, but I’m no expert with tha
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Jul 19 '20
I'm guessing that it's a misguided attempt to try and be helpful. In their minds, they're probably thinking that it would be rude not to automatically "help" someone who is not as fortunate as themselves in that department.
To sort of relate, I was once boarding a flight and there was a short girl around my age who was holding up the line as she struggled to put her stuff in the overhead compartment. At first I thought I should automatically lend a hand, but then thought it might be rude to touch her stuff without asking. She finally asked me, in an annoyed tone of voice, if I could help her. After that I debated in my mind if it was rude of me to not automatically help her before she asked because I could clearly see that she was vertically handicapped.
Most people probably see it as their duty to help without having to be asked.
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Jul 19 '20
Short person checking in here, and honestly maybe you saw me 😂 I don't know that girls mindset but she probably wasn't even annoyed at you for not helping. She was mad at the shelf for being too tall. Seriously, I feel that way so much. I'm not mad at anyone here right now, I'm mad at whoever built this damn thing! I honestly think, and from most answers in this thread, that the best thing to do is ask if someone needs help. Just be like hey, do you need a hand with that? And they'll probably either say yes thanks or nah I'm good and then its all good either way.
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Jul 19 '20
That would be the logical thing to do, which is probably why I didn't think of it.
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Jul 19 '20
Also a short girl, "do you need help with that?" Is fine and welcome. Do not touch my stuff without asking. The very worst thing would be to knock me off balance while I am basically doing an overhead press with my luggage.
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u/shadowchyld Jul 19 '20
This makes me so paranoid with my friend in a chair and I said something similar above... I would hope some or most people would just tell me they need help and I don't want to assume because that can also make them feel less than. My friend hasn't ever asked me to help him, and I rarely offer because I don't want to treat him any different just because he's in a chair. The most I've done is moved a chair out of the way when out to lunch. I hope I'm not wrong in assuming he would let me know if he needed a push.
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u/MikeyyLikeyy69 Jul 19 '20
Do what Hector from Breaking Bad did! Just strap a bomb to the bottom of your wheelchair
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u/themightydouche1 Jul 19 '20
I'm a CNA for SCI and TBI rehab. I always made my patients do things themselves and wait until they absolutely needed me to help. People forget they're still functioning human beings. Even my c2 spinal patient who cant move his neck at all! I never touch anyone without at least letting them know. Even if they have a brain injury and cannot respond. It's just human decency! If i see someone out in public struggling with their chair i just ask 'you good?". They don't have to feel bad for rejecting my help because i set up the answer for rejection to be "yes, im good". Im glad you posted this! Its so important.
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u/SideWinderSyd Jul 19 '20
I haven't pushed anyone's wheelchair before because it looks heavy and I might end up being clumsy. But to play devil's advocate, their thinking might go something like this:
"Oh, the wheelchair looks heavy for the person in it to wheel about themselves. How about I save them the energy and push for them? It's like having a chaffeur right?"
"It looks like this spot isn't the best place to be, maybe I should push them to a safer place"
"Hey, that shop looks interesting, want to check it out? I'm pushing your wheelchair, but it's like holding hands as if we're besties!"
"I push a pram around a lot and I made the subconcious connection to push your wheelchair"
The assumption is that most are genuine, and think they're helping when they're not. I personally don't like it when people rest their arms on the back of my computer chair as I have to counter the force. It feels like they're pushing me against my will.
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Jul 19 '20 edited Sep 23 '20
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u/SideWinderSyd Jul 19 '20
Thanks - glad I can be of help. :D
Can I ask a question? If I'm talking to someone in a wheelchair, where would be the best position to stand? I find that with every position, there's pros and cons.
- To the side of them and just talk as if we're watching a sunset. Person doesn't have to crane their neck.
- In front of them, but their necks might hurt
- Further away, but still in front. No more neck craning, but it'll feel like Covid distancing and as if I'm afraid to be near them
- I heard some say squat down, but I also heard some say it feels like being treated as a child
- I think it would be best if I could find a chair to also sit down, but sometimes there isn't one nearby
- Other?
If it matters, for that one particular case, the person in the wheelchair had stunted growth, so was a bit smaller in stature than others I have seen. I wanted to ask him this question, but I felt shy and awkward.
Follow up question - Should/how do we ask people in wheelchairs what's the best position to talk to them or does it just make things awkward?
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Jul 19 '20 edited Sep 23 '20
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u/SideWinderSyd Jul 19 '20
Thanks so much for your reply! I'll ask the next time a situation like this comes up. And I agree that the squatting thing is awkward for all - I'll avoid it.
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u/shadowchyld Jul 19 '20
Can I piggyback here and ask the other way? Will most people in chairs ask if they need help? I have a friend in one and for the same reasons you've posted here I don't offer any help unless I really feel like it's needed. I don't want to imply they need my help by even asking. The person in this particular case I'm thinking has been in a chair for life. I just try to be respectful and realize he's just differently abled but no less adapted and abled than I myself. I'd like to think if he needs help that he'd ask though, and then all is well... But I do wonder sometimes. For what it's worth, I have some disabilities myself though not a ton of mobility issues. I personally hate it when someone tries to cater to my disabilities instead of see my strengths. I'm just assuming most people are similar. I mean, he has tremendous upper body strength. I personally would feel like someone didn't recognize that if they constantly asked to help.
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Jul 19 '20
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u/MjrGrangerDanger Jul 19 '20
I always ask those people why the fuck they're touching me. And I keep my brakes on for that reason too. It's goes to say a lot when the first verbal interaction is "why won't this thing move?" "Would you like to address me as though I'm human instead of attempting to relocate me like I'm a mere commodity in your way?" The conversation usually goes downhill from there for them. I'm always tempted to ask at the end "Did you learn something?"
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u/shadowchyld Jul 19 '20
Aaaah! I'm not even in a chair and I can't stand this! If you were standing up would she just come up behind you, grab you by the shoulders? And shove you across the room? Um... No.
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u/Finnianheart Jul 19 '20
i am not in a wheelchair: would anyone who uses a wheelchair say this is a fair analogy? wheelchairs are like legs, and pushing them without the user's permission is like picking some random person up in a bridal carry and then getting mad when they say "wtf are you doing stop"
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u/ariamar Jul 19 '20
I'll give you less serious exemple. I wear glasses, I'm blind as a bat without them. But sometimes I take them off mostly bc of hot weather. I had people using those few second to grab them and put them in their face and then they complain about the fact they can't see with them... Like, my glasses are specifically for me and you don't need glasses, what in world do you think you are going to see with them? Also people wearing glasses with no prescription, why? These are not a fashion accessory... If people can't fucking understand how glasses work, a wheelchair is too much technology for them.
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u/prettymuchzoinks Jul 19 '20
Ehh i think i can see why people wear fake glasses i need my glasses to read stuff more than 5 feet away but i think i look better with my glasses than i do without and i think others might feel the same
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u/DrShyBeef Jul 19 '20
It’s a sympathy thing, people ‘need’ to help. Maybe take off the handlebars from the back part. Or stick a backpack/bag in the way.
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Jul 19 '20 edited Sep 23 '20
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u/JustTheRegularBytch Jul 19 '20
I used to work for a Non Profit and we were in contact with different people with different disabilities. We used to call this as “positive discrimination”. It is really common and you can only fight it with information and communication. As a rule of thumb, before assuming anything (feed someone, help them up, push wheelchair, carry them from point a to b) we always asked the person if they wanted our help. Most times the answer was no and then you would just back off and let them do their thing.
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u/talldean Jul 19 '20
Get a metal shop to modify the handles so they fold down, and can be folded back up and fixed or pinned in place.
If the handles generally aren't there, you win. If the handles can be there on demand, you win again.
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u/ruane777 Jul 19 '20
"i wonder if anyone has an idea as to why this happens"? Now, now, let's get real here. Brutally honest? They see you as a charity cause to have pity and compassion for. They see themselves as rescuing you. Intentions are well, but obvi their conception of you as a human-being on their same level isn't up to snuff. It sucks, and it's not your fault. People need to realize that you're JUST like them, through and through- Emotionally and such. You have boundaries and opinions.
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u/ForcedWings Jul 19 '20
Ive had to stop friends from "helping" people in wheel chairs. I was in a wheel chair myself for 6 months and was almost dumped over by other people plenty of times. Id say just yell "dont fuckin touch me" but realy people need to at least ask if you want their help first before just grabbing on
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u/AlamutJones get a stupid answer Jul 19 '20
I don’t know. I wish I did, because it’s happened to me too.
When I’ve told them to stop, the person involved usually looks at me like I’ve just sacrificed a chicken. How hard can it be to understand that’s not yours, leave it alone for fuck’s sake?
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u/TWllTtS Jul 19 '20
Like imagine you're just sitting there and someone just walks off with you feels bad man
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u/GayHotAndDisabled Jul 19 '20
Because they don't see disabled people as being full people with agency.
No, I'm not kidding. If they cared about actually helping us they'd ask, but they don't. They assume, then they get mad when we rightly tell them to back the fuck off.
I use a cane most days, and literal strangers will grab me by the small of the back and say "we can do this" as they attempt to 'guide' me down the street. I am an adult. I can function on my own, thanks. Shockingly (and by that I mean, absolutely expectedly) this doesn't happen when I'm not using my cane.
Getting a wheelchair without handles is a good start, also I've seen people using spikes, too, to put off ableist fucks.
Sorry you've gotta deal with this shit too.
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u/BF_2 Jul 19 '20
It seems to me that the handles on a wheelchair could easily be removed. Anyone with an angle grinder could cut them off. Cap the raw tube ends with rubber cane tips.
If you ever need the handles again, rig the ones you cut off to fit back into the cut tube by means of an inner tube and some indexing/locking device, such as a "tubing button" of the sort used in pop-up canopies: https://www.mcmaster.com/tubing-buttons
This sort of work is very easy to accomplish. As an amateur metalworker, I could literally do it in my garage shop. I might not be able to do a pretty job of it, though.
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Jul 19 '20
The tiny spark of optimist in me wants to say they think they’re honestly helping you out and don’t get it. Those people can probably be told, “hey, I appreciate your intent of helping me but it makes me feel....” (I can’t relate so I won’t try.) The larger cynic in me thinks that either they’re virtue signaling “Look at me! I helped!” Or worse, “I can control where you go.” In those cases “No” is a complete sentence and requires no apologies or explanations. Their offense isn’t your problem, it’s theirs.
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u/MyersVandalay Jul 19 '20
I'd imagine it's that most people really can't put themselves in the shoes of a handicapped person. Their experiential evidence is all temporary situations, maybe on crutches for a few weeks etc... Of which they weren't in long enough to truely adapt, so being helped was critical, It's hard to imagine how de-huminizing it would be if you aren't expecting to get over the handicap in the near future.
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u/Razbith Jul 19 '20
Just out of curiosity. What sort of situation does this happen in? Do people just see you going along the street and suddenly take control thinking they are doing the good samaritan deed?
I work at a small airport usually dealing with 3-4 chairs a day. There's a lot of people travelling for medical reasons and so it's pretty obvious that the 87yr old with arthritic hands going for a knee-op would like some help. But for the rest of them it's usually just let them go and occasionally give a "do you want a hand on the incline?" - we have one bit that is actually pretty steep.
I have noticed one regular, a local paraplegic businessman who has a short backrest where the handles are entirely removed and a clothes hook in the center for his backpack. There's nowhere you could push his chair if you wanted to. Not sure if that's to deter "do-gooders" though or just because at the speed he gets up to he'd risk taking off both his elbows. Pretty sure he could beat me running to the plane if he tried.
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u/ranipe Jul 19 '20
As a medical personnel and certified rehabilitation registered nurse who works with spinal cord injuries, I would like to apologize to you for any medical staff that might have done this to you in the past. We are so used to having patients in the hospital that cannot self propel that it becomes a bit of a bad habit. However, I have never once tried to “push” someone outside of the hospital except for two cases, one a man was struggling to get up a hill and asked for help, and another time a lady was stuck while trying to cut across the grass at a business to save time. Idk why outside of an inpatient setting someone can’t just ask if someone needs help before just assuming they must need help if they’re chairbound. It’s amazing what a simple “you good?” before touching someone can do.
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u/Malachi217 Jul 19 '20
I am an ATP, and I get a ton of requests to omit push handles completely from wheelchairs for this exact reason. That or to do bolt on push handles, which can be lowered and folded when not in use.
I had one patient that had a huge sticker on the backrest of his chair that said “ I didn’t ask for your fucking help!” He was a really cool dude.
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u/Jamboohana Jul 19 '20
Some people may associate wheelchairs with curtesy wheelchairs like in airports or hospitals where it’s custom to have a person/employee push you to your destination. They might not make the distinction right away that a person in their personal wheelchair is experienced and capable of pushing themselves. In one situation you’re being courteous and in another you’re being invasive and rude.
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u/CJsopinion Jul 19 '20
It’s an ableist attitude that you must be helped. And They get to do their good deed for the day.
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u/pollypolite Jul 19 '20
This is a common problem for blind people, too. Just because someone looks like they have limited sight doesn't mean they want random strangers grabbing and "guiding" them. Most stranger don't know how to lead properly anyway. There are lots of ways for people with limited sight to take care of themselves and lots of situations in which DIFFERENT kinds of assistance are welcome.
Best option: ask if someone wants help with that. If they do want help, ask how you can best help.
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u/UhmNotMe ananas Jul 19 '20
People are asses for doing that. I have never had a wheelchair, so I wouldn’t know the feeling, but I believe it’s common sense to not go into someone’s personal space without a permission. I hope your modifications or whatever you decide to do stop people from being unreasonable!
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u/JoostinOnline Jul 19 '20
My wheelchair is an extension of my body, and people don’t seem to see it that way.
I don't want to sound rude, but why do you expect people to know that?
The answer is perspective. I'm glad I read this because now I know not to try to help people move in wheelchairs (I've only ever pushed my late grandma around, and a homeless man who I took out for lunch), but I would have thought it would be a relief. I'm guessing people are upset because their perceived act of kindness (even if it wasn't actually one from the receiving end) was rejected.
We all have limited perspectives. It's important to be aware of them.
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u/shadowchyld Jul 19 '20
As a walker... Even with some disabilities that make it painful for me to walk, I think of it like this... Would I like it if someone saw me walking a little slower because I was having a pain day and ran up behind me, swooped me up, and threw me over their shoulder to carry me to my destination? Hard no. If it was a 300+ bodybuilder who loved me and wanted to be cute I may put up with it as a brief, affectionate cute gesture... But other than that? Let me do it myself.
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u/JoostinOnline Jul 19 '20
When you stop to really think about it then it makes sense. Similarly, it's easy to see how someone could think they're being kind by helping you move if they haven't put a lot of thought into it.
I think a sign (or just educating people on the subject) would make the biggest difference. I'm epileptic and I've found that most people want to be helpful, but because of a lack of information they rarely know how. For example, people calling an ambulance when I gave a seizure is the second worst thing you could do (the first being jamming a wallet in my mouth, since that could choke me), but it's what people's first reaction is. They don't realize that an ambulance won't help at all and will just land me with a $1000 medical bill.
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u/shadowchyld Jul 19 '20
Absolutely. I really think this kind of thing should be taught in schools, actually. How to roll a seizing person on their side and monitor for further issues before calling for transport and render first aid, how to get consent from chair users before violating personal space, and things like that. If you're in a rural area especially, chances are the person will be recovering from the seizure long before EMS arrives. At which point you can ask them directly if they'd like to get checked further. In cases of prolonged seizures, breathing issues, further decline I get it. But some people just have a seizure, sometimes every day, sometimes even grand mal, and recover quite nicely without further intervention. I have no medical background and I still know to keep comfortable, keep safe, and keep close. It's not that hard, especially these days, to educate yourself on these things.
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u/fluffedpillows Jul 19 '20
Who the fuck just randomly starts pushing someone's wheelchair?
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u/erinys_adrasteia Jul 19 '20
https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/768559885/spiked-faux-or-real-leather-wheelchair?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=wheelchair+spikes&ref=sr_gallery-1-1&organic_search_click=1&frs=1
These ones are very expensive, but screw in spikes are cheap on eBay...