r/NonCredibleDefense • u/M1S_F1T • Aug 04 '25
Arsenal of Democracy 🗽 What Other Reasons Do I Need?
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u/super__hoser Self proclaimed forehead on warhead expert Aug 04 '25 edited Aug 04 '25
Why I should mount **a** M134 Minigun on the Abrams?
Because you can't find 2 M134 Miniguns.
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u/Axin_Saxon Aug 04 '25
Not with that attitude
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u/super__hoser Self proclaimed forehead on warhead expert Aug 05 '25
In my defense, I can be quite lazy.
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u/Dpek1234 Aug 04 '25
Quad mount
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u/super__hoser Self proclaimed forehead on warhead expert Aug 04 '25 edited Aug 04 '25
More dakka is good because more is more.
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u/Zack_Wester Aug 04 '25
the only problem i see whit that is the weight of a gattling gun and its ammo.
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u/TaddoMan 3000 HESH rounds of sunak 🇬🇧🔥 Aug 04 '25
I mean, we are literally mounting them on a tank...
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u/Zack_Wester Aug 05 '25
saw a few pictures and I was like wait a sec... I remmber the Abrame not having the gattling gun becuase it + ammo was causing the tank to pass its max capacity or that its engine was put under to much strain so they said no not worth it.
(yes they did but its a bit like putting the Soviet AA gun on a regular pickup truck... it works and the pictures are cool but if you did not before hand change the thingis under the car and placed the strongest stock engine or another stronger engine.. it was more or less useless as its top speed on road was near zero. it could fire the AA guns.... but the car was more or less useless after.
Tires destroyed from the force of the quad barrel shoting into the sky.
underside if not uppgraded/moded snapping and so on.
Yes the Abrame was not that bad but its something the army calls a only do if absolutely necessary because it will quickly cause said equipment to become a write off.2
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u/OldManMcCrabbins Aug 06 '25
More like you undermount an Abrams to the M134
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u/super__hoser Self proclaimed forehead on warhead expert Aug 06 '25
Abrams is a under barrels "grenade" launcher?
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u/turnedonbyadime Aug 06 '25
Cause they don't make an M135 and we don't dial 911, AMIRITEBRUTHR!
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u/nYghtHawkGamer Cyberspace Conversational Irregular TM Aug 07 '25
Cause they don't make an M135
They most certainly do, and its a purpose built demolition gun.
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u/Princess_Actual The Voice of the Free World Aug 04 '25
I remember the SF guys showing me their M134 armed humvee. "We can dump the entire ammo load in less than 2 minutes. Rad as hell."
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u/meowzedong1984 ✨💖3000 Traps of NCD💖✨ Aug 04 '25
Would that be sustained fire on one target or like stop and acquiring another guy when the first one turns to liquid?
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u/Princess_Actual The Voice of the Free World Aug 04 '25
Holding down the trigger till ammo runs out.
Doing some googling, and it looks like combat loads for an M134 equipped humvee vary between 3400 rounds and 4500 rounds.
Rate of fire is 3,000 rounds. So holding the trigger down, you'll dump your load in 70-90 seconds.
Lasts longer if you're doing squirts of a few dozen or few hundred rounds.
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u/imbrickedup_ Aug 04 '25
Just like real life
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u/meowzedong1984 ✨💖3000 Traps of NCD💖✨ Aug 04 '25
You wouldn’t have to squeeze me for long that’s for sure
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u/Graingy The one (1) not-planefucker here Aug 04 '25
Wouldn't the barrels overheat? That's still, what 500 RPM for each barrel. That's a lot for an air cooled weapon.
Water cooled gatling-style machine guns.
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u/Princess_Actual The Voice of the Free World Aug 04 '25
As the SF weapons sergeant explained to me when I asked exactly that question, he said: "yes, the barrels will be overheated and may need replacing afterwards. However, if you are in a situation where you dump 3,000+ rounds in less than two minutes, you have much bigger problems specialist."
But yeah, normally you fire in short controlled bursts (iiirc 50-200 round bursts). Reading on wikipedia, some miniguns are actually set up to do burst fire via selector switch. Squirtimg 50 rounds with every pull of the trigger.
Sadly, I did not get to fire it.
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u/Graingy The one (1) not-planefucker here Aug 04 '25
Ah, the classic "catastrophic weapon failure is the least of your concerns in the situation that has you needing you push it like that".
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u/Princess_Actual The Voice of the Free World Aug 04 '25
Pretty much.
Though I bet the gun would be fine.
When the M60s were being retired from my Guard unit, they werr slated for destruction, so command requisitioned a SHITLOAD of ammo and let us try out genuine sustained fire until the barrels were glowing hot and wrecked. My gun, one barrel I fired until the gas regulator blew. They handed me the spare barrel and I fired another 5,000 rounds. Hella fun.
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u/Xalxa Aug 04 '25
VA - Your hearing loss is not service related.
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u/Princess_Actual The Voice of the Free World Aug 04 '25
I actually got 10% for tinnitus!!!
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u/Xalxa Aug 04 '25
Damn, nice. While my tinnitus was preexisting, my hearing loss definitely wasn't. I was on ammo detail one day and our dump was about 100m from the actual firing line, so we were being pretty lax about ears back there. I ran up a few cans for the MGs and as I turned to head back to the dump open fire was called... As I was standing there with my earpro dangling out of my right ear, so left totally open. 6 SAWs and 2 M240s open up under that covered range and it was like an explosion went off in my head. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes I guess. I double up whenever I go shooting now. Earpro, then muffs over them.
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u/Graingy The one (1) not-planefucker here Aug 04 '25
slated for destruction
I will never understand governments' insistence on destroying expensive things.
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u/Beginning-Suspect686 Aug 04 '25
Because, as ze mobiks are discovering, having a barrel detonate in combat is a BAD idea.
Like having the wings on your airframe detach.
Far better to deadline a vehicle/weapon at 80% of service life than to find out at 105% that the expected life estimate was reasonably accurate.
US and other similar militaries do this. Insurgents, South American dictatorships, and 3rd world kleptocracies run everything until catastrophic failue. Ukraine does the same because the Orcs are at the walls. You only do this in extreme circumstances or if you're an idiot.
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u/Graingy The one (1) not-planefucker here Aug 05 '25
Sell them under the table to people you don't like.
Boom (literally). Barrel explosion in the middle of use.
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u/TaddoMan 3000 HESH rounds of sunak 🇬🇧🔥 Aug 04 '25
Got to let the lads have some fun every now and then!
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u/Graingy The one (1) not-planefucker here Aug 04 '25
I more meant why they wouldn’t sell them instead of deciding they need to be destroyed.
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u/MandaloreZA Aug 05 '25 edited Aug 07 '25
M60's have very annoying issues at the end of their service life. Everything is just slightly out of spec and warped. The MTBF decreases and it only would make sense to either replace the receivers and top covers or just trash it and adopt the M240.
Also the M60 had a fatal flaw when a case head blew. It required taking a saw to the bolt to remove the barrel. Happens in combat the gun is an insane liability. M240's and MG3's you can just swap a barrel to fix it.
Video example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BJJm4d_Hgg
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u/nYghtHawkGamer Cyberspace Conversational Irregular TM Aug 07 '25
The MTBF increases
wouldn't the Mean Time Between Failures decrease with extensive wear?
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u/Exile688 Aug 04 '25
NCD right before militaries start installing .223 miniguns on remote turrets for tank based CIWS:
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u/Sam_the_Samnite Fokker G.1>P-38 Aug 04 '25
I am more partial to 30mm cannons linked to the APS radar. Which seems to be what the embt is going for.
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u/CurtisLeow Aug 04 '25
30 mm is overkill for taking out these drones. Even .50 is too big. That’s why they went with the 7.62 mm minigun.
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u/Sam_the_Samnite Fokker G.1>P-38 Aug 04 '25
A 30mm cannon allows for ammo like the AHEAD round. Which will have a higher probability of scoring a hit and can be more effective against swarms.
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u/Graingy The one (1) not-planefucker here Aug 04 '25
Whatever that is it sounds overpriced.
More dakka better.
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u/Sam_the_Samnite Fokker G.1>P-38 Aug 04 '25
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u/Graingy The one (1) not-planefucker here Aug 04 '25
Not enough. If its RPM isn't in the high thousands then it's not enough.
This condition is voided if the calibre is over 150mm, of course.
I've yet to see a reason why automatic fire mechanisms cannot be scaled to large naval calibres.
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u/maveric101 Aug 04 '25
I've yet to see a reason why automatic fire mechanisms cannot be scaled to large naval calibres.
The things I'd do if I was the richest person in the world...
Rather than fucking over people starving or with AIDS around the world.
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u/Dpek1234 Aug 04 '25
I would be makeing competition to spacex so i orbital kenetic bombardment can be cheap enough to be used
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u/machinerer Aug 04 '25
The US Navy did have quick firing light and heavy cruisers in WWII. 6" and 8" cannons, respectively.
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u/Graingy The one (1) not-planefucker here Aug 04 '25
I ain't talking some pussy autoloader bullshit, I mean chain/recoil/gas operated full-auto.
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u/machinerer Aug 04 '25
Full auto USS New Jersey? BLACK DRAGON!
WoWS / GAIJOOB WHEN!??!!
But seriously, barrel life is finite for high pressure large caliber naval rifles.
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u/GadenKerensky Aug 05 '25
That isn't dakka, that is brrrrt.
Once you get into that range of RPM, it is not longer dakka.
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u/Graingy The one (1) not-planefucker here Aug 05 '25
You know what I mean.
More rounds downrange = more gooder
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u/Beginning-Suspect686 Aug 04 '25
30mm is about the smallest you can economically produce prox fuse rounds.
50 cal is good for reach against drones as direct fire but can't prox fuse at anything resembling a rational cost per round. 7.62 doesn't have enough range - inertia helps counteract air resistance.
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u/Nerd_1000 Aug 09 '25
We need a small, light 30mm with a good rate of fire, and range isn't too critical?
Germany sheepishly opens old cardboard box labelled "stuff from when I was evil" and pulls out a Mk108, still lightly coated with Me109 engine oil. 'Zis might vork?'
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u/Axin_Saxon Aug 04 '25
AI-powered, anti-drone CIWS. What a time to be alive.
Even on a striker it would be dope as hell.
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u/cKingc05 Aug 04 '25
It’s unfortunate that the XM214 Microgun (scaled-down 5.56 version of M134) wasn’t accepted into US service.
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u/Decoy-User Unlimited 5.56 Works Aug 04 '25
If I can mount a minigun on an SUV, why shouldn't I mount it on a tank?
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u/DerringerOfficial Iowa battleships with nuclear propulsion & laser air defense Aug 04 '25
At the risk of getting too credible, this could make sense if it’s an automated SHORAD/drone-defense turret
I just want small arms-caliber C-RAM, God damnit!
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u/Sam_the_Samnite Fokker G.1>P-38 Aug 04 '25
The multiturret tanks will make a comeback. Whether it be with small calibre machine guns, rotary guns, or autocannons does not matter. New tanks will have APS, APS radars, and a small turret with shorad light.
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u/Graingy The one (1) not-planefucker here Aug 04 '25
FUCK YEAH 21ST CENTURY T-35!
STALIN'S MUTANT IS MAKING A COMBACK!
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u/HowNondescript My Waiver has a Waiver Aug 04 '25
Nah. 21st century BOLO. General Dynamics at it again
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u/Beginning-Suspect686 Aug 04 '25
small calibres don't have enough range.
There's a reason why snipers use 50s for ultra long distance kills.
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u/DOSFS Aug 04 '25
MW predicted the future!!
/Credible take : it is a test and it might not cough up imo. 30mm chain gun turret for drone defence is much better.
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u/JoMercurio Gap Defence Force Liaison Aug 04 '25
That's your reason?
My reason is just so that one mission in MW3 (the one set in Hamburg iirc) can be made into a reality
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u/MisogynysticFeminist Aug 05 '25
Also Mercenaries 2.
My god trying to hijack the Abrams and the Chinese equivalent were a pain in the bitch.
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u/Antique_Item_3753 Aug 04 '25
Everybody here missing the real brilliance of this idea. Rebuild a GIANT minigun (macro-gun?) using multiple Abram main gun barrels. Use a top fuel dragster motor to spin em. Ammo trailer connected to the gun (for crew protection of course), cover the entire thing in ERA, duct tape a phone running ChatGPT inside so we can sell it to the MIC as “AI Enabled”, and a few mossberg 500s inside so we can sell a “modular anti-drone solution” option package for a mere few million per unit. We are all gonna get rich boys!!!
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u/AndyLorentz Aug 04 '25
Ah, yes. The Macro Gatling Blaster
The weapon consists of several rotating gun barrels firing 150mm high-explosive shells at an extremely fast rate, making it an excellent anti-infantry weapon.
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u/sentinelthesalty F-15 Is My Waifu Aug 04 '25 edited Aug 04 '25
Turning enemy infantry into Bolognese Sauce?
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u/WindsockWindsor Harvest HAWK my beloved Aug 04 '25
Virgin M134 vs Chad GAU-19. Go big or go home, people.
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u/Carlos_Danger21 USS Constitution > Arleigh Burke Aug 04 '25
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u/No-Marsupial-1753 Aug 04 '25
We put it on an M113 and called it an anti-air, why not put it on an Abrams and call that an anti air too?
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u/Antique_Item_3753 Aug 04 '25
What was that monstrosity called, again? I have been trying to think of the name, but all I can see in my mind is the front of the building that they fired a “warning” “shot” at.
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u/Wicked-Pineapple Aug 04 '25
M163 aka VADS (Vulcan Air Defense System) They took a M61A1, halved its fire rate from 6000 rpm to 3000 rpm, and stuck it on a M113.
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Aug 04 '25
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u/Huckorris Cruise Sword > AGM-114R9X Aug 04 '25
Why have mini gun when you can have giant gun?
Gimme a GAU-8.
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u/Wolffe_In_The_Dark 3000 MAD-2b Royal Marauders of Kerensky Aug 04 '25
It's also one of the first steps to making a BOLO.
So there's really no reason not to. We're already 5 years late for the Mk.I anyways.
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u/A_Homestar_Reference Aug 04 '25
Didn't they do this in a call of duty game
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u/Cliffinati Aug 04 '25
Yeah the assault on Russian occupied Hamburg you ride in an Abrams with a M134 mounted to the turret
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u/bolivar-shagnasty KINDLY DO THE NEEDFUL MOTHERFUCKERS Aug 04 '25
GAU-19 would use the same ammo as the M2 and be better at besmushificating enemy materiel
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u/HotTakesBeyond no fuel? Aug 04 '25
Because you can’t mount three (coax space restraints) (loader can have a mini gun as a treat)
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u/Silverdragon47 Aug 04 '25
Pellet gun ( with tungsten core pellets) or 12.7 mm (50 cal in freedom units) with proper fire control would work just as fine.
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u/Graingy The one (1) not-planefucker here Aug 04 '25
Needs more ammo capacity though. I propose trading the 7.62 for 5.56mm to prolong the brrt experience.
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u/Towel4 3000 FOLDS OF NIPPON STEEL NATO BAYONETS Aug 04 '25
CAVALRY BASED ANTI-DRONE C-RAM
WHY CANT IT WORK? MAKE IT WORK YOU STUPID BASTARD.
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u/Relativistic_G11 Aug 04 '25
If the primary and secondary armaments on my tank can't fire the exact same weight of ammo in the same time, I don't want it.
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u/morgisboard 3000 black abacus beads of oryx Aug 05 '25
replicating the hamburg tank mission from modern warfare 3
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u/Ray57 Aug 04 '25
Well traditionally tanks are gendered by armament.
If it has a main gun it's male, and a machine gun: female.
So most modern tanks are in fact genderqueer.
Mounting a mini-gun probably also would make the tank also genderfluid.
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Aug 04 '25
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Aug 04 '25
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u/ReturnPresent9306 Aug 04 '25
I'm not sure why you gave three reasons..... BBRRRRTTT, is enough. o7
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u/Atholthedestroyer Aug 04 '25
Okay, saying this because the picture reminded me of it...has anybody else ever seen a picture of a proposed SPAAG based on a Abrams hull and using a Goalkeeper 30mm CWIS? I think it was from sometime around the First Gulf War, but I've never been able to find the picture online.
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u/Shaun_Jones A child's weight of hypersonic whoop-ass Aug 05 '25
The one I saw was two 35mm cannons and two six-shot pods of ADATS missiles.
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u/madshanker132 Aug 04 '25
I gave said this before replace the main gun of an Abram with a rotary cannon or mini gun and turn it into a anti infantry tank
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u/LarxII Aug 05 '25
To be fair, the intimidation factor is up there as to why this would be pretty awesome.
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u/Konpeitoh Aug 05 '25
It's been done before. Why can't it be done again? Because there are still irate high-ranking officers in the Army? (referencing the M48 "The Grim Reaper")
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u/Lost_Possibility_647 Aug 05 '25
It is time to design a tank around the GAU-8A and call it the Warping.
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u/billythesquid- Aug 05 '25
Coaxial minigun? So the gunner has something to play with while the loader’s working?
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u/Green__lightning Aug 05 '25
It's not a bad idea, but you'll need at least a very good sight to hit drones, and at best, you'd basically put a tiny CIWS on top of every tank.
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u/an_agreeing_dothraki Scramjets when Aug 05 '25
okay but what if we put 1-2 of these on a cargo plane alongside a howitzer and fuck it a bofors. Missile racks if there's room. Source: the MIC used to be based, long ago
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u/macktruck6666 Democracy Rocks Aug 05 '25
Obviously, you shouldn't put "A" minigun, you should put multiple miniguns.
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u/Longjumping_Cut2172 Aug 05 '25
god i wish the ammo wasn’t so expensive and large 😔 M134 on top of an abrams instead of a M2 would be elite
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Aug 05 '25
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u/CIS-E_4ME 3000 Lifetime Bans of The Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum Aug 06 '25
So basically the Titan tank from Enemy Territory: Quake Wars irl
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u/fpop88 Aug 08 '25
Three valid reasons, this man has my vote and it has nothing to do with my views on M134 that I may or may not share. give him his m134 tank.
Also if it goes into production, where one might find themselves pre ording one?
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u/SweatyIncident4008 Aug 04 '25
its kinda overkill, it would make more sense to mount in its chasis without the main gun, it could work as a suport vehicle
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u/LaTeChX Aug 04 '25
I feel like a 70 ton platform for a minigun is more overkill than a minigun as secondary weapon for an MBT
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u/lolariane All your base are belong to us. Aug 04 '25
noncredible: covering fire for the main gun
credible: something something drones