30 years ago today

[u/GenDouglasMacArthur]

[u/mka10mka10]

I was suggesting we bomb Moscow, I was suggesting we send American pilots in and blow up all the bridges on the Volga.

[u/justamiqote → u/mka10mka10]

We should have done that in 1945 tbh

[u/mka10mka10 → u/justamiqote]

Found Winston Churchills reencarnation

[u/Snack378 → u/mka10mka10]

Or Patton

[u/LightningController → u/Snack378]

Given some of the things he said about DPs, let’s hope it’s Winnie.

[u/AnotherLie → u/LightningController]

DPs? Did Patton have strong opinions about double penetration?

[u/LightningController → u/AnotherLie]

He said some pretty fucked up stuff about liberated camp prisoners (Displaced Persons).

https://www.thejc.com/news/world/general-patton-letter-in-which-he-refers-to-jews-as-sub-human-goes-on-sale-online-fjd9piht

So far as the Jews are concerned, they do not want to be placed in comfortable buildings. They actually prefer to live as many to a room as possible. They have no conception of sanitation, hygiene or decency and are, as you know, the same sub-human types that we saw in the internment camps.

[u/AnotherLie → u/LightningController]

OH.

OH NO.

I had no idea what DP stood for. Fuck.

[u/SolKaynn → u/AnotherLie]

DEADPOOL HOW COULD YOU!??

[u/Nadare3 → u/LightningController]

Is this a literal "the children yearn for the mines" ?

[u/DeHerg → u/LightningController]

"...by the scurrilous attacks made on me by the non-Arian press"

But he did know what side he was supposed to be on, right?

[u/LightningController → u/DeHerg]

It’s gotta be kept in mind that ‘stopping the Nazis from murdering people’ wasn’t the top of most people’s reasons to fight the Nazis at the time. Heck, one reason the Roosevelt administration initially covered up reports about the Holocaust presented to them by the Polish government-in-exile was to not make it look like they were fighting a ‘war for Jews’ as the isolationist press and German propaganda accused them of. A lot of the US establishment would have been quite happy to see the Nazis murder half of Europe, so long as they had an actual assurance that they would keep it to their side of the ocean and not go global with it. (And not just the US establishment; the Soviets, of course, were helping Hitler with his murders as long as they could, and the Entente, well, their record speaks for itself)

Hitler fucked himself over more by breaking deals and making that kind of assurance untenable than by his actual atrocities.

[u/Sliderisk → u/LightningController]

Bibi furiously scribbling notes in the corner and smiling

[u/CheekiBleeki → u/LightningController]

Holy fucking shit.

[u/Meem-Thief → u/LightningController]

What about MacArthur

[u/hazzap913 → u/Snack378]

Nuke it instead

[u/aWalkingCarpet → u/Snack378]

Or Groves

[u/g2petter → u/justamiqote]

Operation Unthinkable Unfathomably Based

[u/janosslyntsjowls → u/g2petter]

Operation Saint Olga

[u/Geo_NL → u/justamiqote]

It took the Soviet Union years to get nukes. Imagine the leverage the US actually had as only nuclear power at the end of WW2.

"Oh, you don't want to fuck off out of East-Germany?". "What's this? Nice place, want to keep it that way?".

Instead we got the painful decades for all the countries behind the Iron Curtain. To this day the damage is still noticeable in those societies.

[u/Brogan9001 → u/Geo_NL]

True, however on the other hand, the fact the US didn’t use its status as the only nuclear power to lord over the world indefinitely and glass anyone trying to develop nukes shows an insane level of self control (and a lot of war-weariness). Doubt any other country at the time would show that much restraint.

[u/Sevchenko874 → u/Brogan9001]

"b-but muh warmonger US narrative !!!1!1!111!" -a tankie, probably

[u/Jackbuddy78 → u/Geo_NL]

Soviet Union had interceptors that could down B-29s by the late '40s and plenty of them. They weren't making kamikaze aircraft and a few Zero fighters. 

The result would have just been another ground war with periodic attempts to strike cities with WMDs. It really wasn't until ICBMs came online in the 1960s that the US could assuredly deliver a large amount of nuclear strikes against the Eastern Bloc. 

[u/ain92ru → u/Jackbuddy78]

Actually, already in 1945 over its home territory. Also, the US had very few nukes after the end of WWII, which were pretty inaccurate and could only be used against cities. Moreover, not a lot of B-29s were adapted for them, but that could be easily fixed. Much harder to fix was the lack of cartographic information to find strategic targets in the parts of the territory never occupied by Germans (it took U-2s and satellites IRL).

Besides decent fighters and radars to protect the cities, USSR had T-44s and IS-3 tanks in serial production which were vastly superior to any Western tanks, decent stocks of artillery ammunition, upgraded military plants and a huge combat-proven land army.

The postwar planning in the West assumed the Soviet Army would have steamrolled to the English Channel in, IIRC, half a year, occupied all Germany and practically all continental France, and the Western forces would have to defend on the Alps and Pyrenees

[u/Princep_Krixus → u/ain92ru]

"Vastl superior to western tanks" so yea. Tell me you think Ukraine is a fair and responsible military operation lol.

The Russians tanks have been time and time again shown to have been paper tigers. The only reason they didnt well in any conflict was pure numbers. Even then half of them broke down. And yet they had so many it didnt matter. The Russians fucking loved the western tanks they got on lend lease, because they actually fucking worked.

Russian propaganda at its finest.

[u/Jkay064 → u/Princep_Krixus]

Always remember that the Soviets had a special department of propaganda up until the 1990s expressly to falsely boast that WW2 Soviet armor was good. They are the pettiest morons on the planet.

[u/ain92ru → u/Princep_Krixus]

Ukraine has been a predictable catastrophe and Putin is a war criminal. That has noting to do with the fact Russian tanks are not worse than the Western ones (have you heard about Western tanks breaking down in Ukraine? If not, maybe you have a social media bubble), the problem of the RuAF is not in tanks.

The reason crews preferred Lend Lease tanks was because they were comfy! Ukrainian tankers quip that Western armor is "built for people" as opposed to the Soviet one built to achieve the desired combat characteristics.

Still, as the Russo-Ukrainian war illustrates perfectly, two T-62s are more useful in a war than one Challenger 2 even if the former are slightly cramped for 180-cm folks and lack an on-board tea-making facility

[u/mka10mka10 → u/ain92ru]

for tanks built to have desired combat characteristics theyre certainly shit at that

[u/gingerfreddy → u/Geo_NL]

What? Nuking eastern europe to liberate it?

I wanted to write a long post here but just please think about how a nuclear war in eastern europe would have damaged said societies.

"Man Stalin sure sucked with all that ethnic cleansing and political executions, I wish someone would NUKE US as the path to liberation"

Motherfucker the US bomber nearly every semi-permanent structure in Vietnam and northern Korea. They did not surrender. 

Only boots on the ground would ensure a liberated eastern europe. So, marching an exhausted Britain, german auxiliaries, barely reorganisering france after their civil war, and whatever allied minors were on hand into a freshly nuked USSR? The Red Army was freakishly powerful in 1945, and nuking it out of existence would require tens of millions of deaths, including civillians what the fuck are you smoking the Red Army stood in the very countries you want to liberate in this scenario

This all of course relying on the US having enough nukes and the air power to actually fly them over USSR home soil. Which I am unsure about. 

[u/Nordalin → u/justamiqote]

We couldn't, unfortunately.

2World2War just wasn't meant to be

[u/Cliffinati → u/justamiqote]

Second sunrise in Moscow

Sept 1 1945

[u/NowAlexYT → u/justamiqote]

The USSR shouldve been invaded and split into occuoation zones like germany before they had any nukes

[u/The_Motarp → u/NowAlexYT]

That was never going to happen. The Red Army was more powerful than all their potential opponents combined and the US could have only produced a relatively small number of nukes before the first Russian ones became available. Much of Russia's military production was on the far side of the Urals where the US wouldn't have been able to nuke them even if they got past the Red Air Force. The public in the US, UK, and France, would never have supported the horrific war that would have resulted from going against the USSR.

[u/Kaiser_Defender → u/justamiqote]

WWWOOOO WORLD WAR 3

[u/RussiaIsBestGreen → u/mka10mka10]

My favorite part is that the last time I saw the original clip it was from a channel posting it to act like Biden was a bad guy.

[u/mka10mka10 → u/RussiaIsBestGreen]

I mean there is a giant crowd who think that the UN and NATO were the bad guys in Bosnia and that the Serbs were innocent

[u/meowtiger → u/mka10mka10]

those people are pretty much all serbs tho right

[u/mka10mka10 → u/meowtiger]

Either serbs, americans who hate nato without knowing anything about it or a series of code originating out of Belarus

[u/Reddit_Adminh8 → u/mka10mka10]

ie:serbs and tankies

[u/mickey_kneecaps → u/meowtiger]

Nah plenty of western far left and far right folk think this. Jeremy Corbyn being a prominent example.

[u/Bookworm_AF → u/meowtiger]

Revanchist Serbs, campists, and fascists. Give 'em all the Belgrade special.

[u/Beginning-Suspect686 → u/mka10mka10]

Jeremy Corbyn and Momentum. Plus Tucker Carlson.

Also large fraction of Serbia and all of Russia.

[u/mka10mka10 → u/Beginning-Suspect686]

stop the genocide unless its nato stopping it then theyre imperialists

[u/TheLoneWolfMe → u/Beginning-Suspect686]

Jeremy Corbyn

Tucker Carlson

Horseshoe theory proven right once again.

[u/morgisboard → u/Beginning-Suspect686]

Also Noam Chomsky

[u/TARANTULA_TIDDIES → u/Beginning-Suspect686]

Also the rather popular youtuber "ididathing" plus his one friend

[u/Sine_Fine_Belli → u/RussiaIsBestGreen]

r/darkbrandon

[u/mloiii → u/mka10mka10]

Was? Why past tense? Yesterday belgrade tomorrow moscow.

[u/wanderingmanimal → u/mka10mka10]

It is ALWAYS on the table…and encouraged as the most practical option

[u/ujm556 → u/mka10mka10]

Why stop there? You can bomb all the oil refineries into dust, cut off all their oil and gas pipelines and railways, and take out russian airbases. Then move on to their industrial sector, and doing operation Grassland Storm against russian troops. Oh, and bomb Putin's vacation houses, just for fun. Lastly, sign a deal where russians are forced to hand over their nuclear weapons, which they won't be able to maintain anyway since they got bombed back to stone age.

[u/mka10mka10 → u/ujm556]

Lets bomb Stonehenge back to the stone age

[u/ujm556 → u/mka10mka10]

Meaning russia is already in stone age? If so, then it would be bombing stonehenge back to the mesozoic

[u/mka10mka10 → u/[deleted]]

The biden who was he was just older and the media only highlighted when he struggled with his speech impediment

[u/JesradSeraph]

Sooooooo… Operation Deliberate Force 2.0 against russia when ?

[u/External-Option-544 → u/JesradSeraph]

If Russia didn’t have nuclear weapons, it would have already happened. They don’t stand a chance in a conventional conflict with NATO.

Unfortunately, Russia does have nukes. However, the West can still transfer the $245 billion in frozen Russian assets to Ukraine, allowing them to arm themselves to the teeth. This drip-feeding of support really needs to stop.

[u/Sosemikreativ → u/External-Option-544]

I assume doing that kind of stuff to international funding would escalate into corporate and banking mayhem. Half the world is made up of insanely rich dictatorships that equally like to prepare for some sort of regional war and invest their wealth in Western countries. Imagine what happens to the Western economies and banks when these nations realize their wealth will just be taken from them and given to the enemy once they start their pet project war of aggression. That's probably why it's just frozen.

[u/Blueberryburntpie → u/Sosemikreativ]

Maybe housing in London and elsewhere will finally be affordable when the properties owned by dictators' shell companies suddenly all get dumped onto the market.

A documentary on how London is a major center of money laundering, including Russian oligarchs, and how it's easy for the oligarchs to lawyer up in the UK to shut down investigative journalists. The Financial Times themselves said they have lost legal battles against individuals that they attempted to investigate, because those people probably have even deeper pockets than the FT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyk12Wf_TeQ

[u/iwumbo2 → u/Blueberryburntpie]

Solve the western housing crisis and financially ruin dictatorships in one move? That's two birds with one stone, why aren't we doing this? Are we stupid?

[u/FalconMirage → u/iwumbo2]

why aren’t we doing this ?

They pay big bribes

[u/kirillre4 → u/iwumbo2]

Governments don't have any housing problems and really love dictatorships' money, so that would be completely counterproductive to them.

[u/frikkinlasers → u/iwumbo2]

Yes.

[u/Obvious-Ranger-2235 → u/Sosemikreativ]

That's part of the reason. Also a lot of Western companies have assets overseas. Any or all of which could be seized in immediate retaliation.

[u/Sasquatch1729 → u/Obvious-Ranger-2235]

True, but many western companies have already had their assets stolen (for example, jets in Russia were commandeered during the early days of the war).

https://avweb.com/aviation-news/russia-seized-10-times-more-airliners-than-it-lost-to-sanctions/

Also many companies are selling their assets because they can't get any wealth out of them and they may as well sell before the Russians seize their stuff anyway.

They can use the funds as leverage to get the Russians to give back these assets, or use the fund to pay off Western companies' losses for investing in Russia.

I'd rather see the money go to Ukraine, but I have a feeling this is what they're saving it for.

[u/Blueberryburntpie → u/Sasquatch1729]

Russia also stole Oneweb's satellites that were supposed to be launched with Russian rockets: https://www.theregister.com/2022/09/05/oneweb_takes_229m_hit_from/

[u/TARANTULA_TIDDIES → u/Obvious-Ranger-2235]

That shit has already happened in russia

[u/gronlund2 → u/TARANTULA_TIDDIES]

Yeah, it was a semi valid reason before Russia took airplanes and seized businesses, now the goal should be to rob them blind.

If there's even a skateboard in the west owned by a russian it should be seized and sent to Ukraine, I'm sure there's kids there who would enjoy it

[u/x1rom → u/Sosemikreativ]

Also it's a coercive item to end the war. If Russia gets the money back, it means that there's more incentive to end the war. If the assets are just gone, then Russia loses out either way, and it gets less likely for Russia to end the war early.

[u/TARANTULA_TIDDIES → u/x1rom]

If Russia gets that money back as part of a "peace" theyre just going to use that money to rebuild their military for another try within 5-10years

[u/Cultural_Blueberry70 → u/TARANTULA_TIDDIES]

They should only be able to use it as the first installment of their reparations to Ukraine.

[u/hx87 → u/Sosemikreativ]

Most of those investments are in non-productive, rent-seeking sectors of the economy, like finance, insurance and real estate, not industry, technology or productive services. Cutting off those investments might actually help unfuck western economies.

Of course the governing classes in the West are also heavily invested in FIRE, which is probably why value added taxes are ubiquitous but land value taxes (the most efficient taxes possible) are nonexistent.

[u/tukkerdude → u/External-Option-544]

Amen im in the Netherlands and voted for a political party that supported ukraine full stop and will do so again next election. This is one of the very few cases ware further violence IS the solution!

[u/MsMercyMain → u/tukkerdude]

War! Huh! What is it good for? Huh! Stopping Russia’s baseless invasions!

[u/tukkerdude → u/MsMercyMain]

By the MIGHT of OUR collective DEMOCRACY WE SHALL AID our ALLIES in the EAST!!! GLORY to UKRAINE!!! VICTORY is INEVITABLE!!!

[u/Rambos_Magnum_Dong → u/External-Option-544]

They barely stand a chance in a conventional conflict with Ukraine.

[u/FocusBro2024 → u/Rambos_Magnum_Dong]

Nah, clearly Russia could win any day, they just haven’t been trying hard enough, if daddy Putin gives the go they could easily take it over in half a second /s

[u/RarityNouveau → u/External-Option-544]

I really want to believe that all the nukes that Russia has are actually just as run down and broken as the rest of their military.

[u/MsMercyMain → u/RarityNouveau]

Once Russia inevitably implodes post Putin, we’re gonna find out they have 3 or 4 functional nukes, and for some reason MS-13 or some Mexican Drug Cartel has like, 12 they accidentally bought ages ago

[u/realif3 → u/MsMercyMain]

I swear to God back when WikiLeaks was big I read about nukes in Mexico.

[u/MsMercyMain → u/realif3]

I mean, a Russian Admiral nearly sold the cartel a fully loaded and function nuclear submarine. The cartel was the one who backed out upon realizing that the missiles would be included, hilariously enough

[u/AlliedMasterComp → u/MsMercyMain]

The cartel was the one who backed out upon realizing that the missiles would be included, hilariously enough

Becoming a strategic level threat to the US Military in the western hemisphere is generally an ill advised move.

[u/MsMercyMain → u/AlliedMasterComp]

Let’s be fair, with just one sub they’d probably be an operational level threat. But yeah, I just find it hilarious to hear the cartels be the adults in the room yknow?

[u/FocusBro2024 → u/MsMercyMain]

“Listen, I may chop guys head off and skin them alive, but I know Mr America up there will do the same to me if a buy this shit”

[u/ChosenUndead15 → u/MsMercyMain]

As much of vicious bloodthirsty beast they are, they didn't get far without knowing they if they bite more than they could chew they would be death and worse because every direct opponent is also a vicious bloodthirsty beast.

[u/MsMercyMain → u/ChosenUndead15]

I will say, the idea of them going through with it and then doing a comic villain “hold the US hostage until you legalize drugs/crime” thing would be funny as fuck

[u/Blueberryburntpie → u/MsMercyMain]

Something something not wanting to attract unwanted attention (e.g. a CIA's SAC/SOG team blackbagging the cartel leadership at night for extraordinary rendition, or outright assassinations) when they're already raking in billions of USD annually from their operations.

[u/MsMercyMain → u/Blueberryburntpie]

Oh that’s definitely why, I just think it’s peak non credibility that a cartel is more credible at risk assessment over a Russian Admiral. IIRC he got caught because the fucking cartels ratted him out

[u/Reddit_Adminh8 → u/MsMercyMain]

Imagine the cartels just wind up with enriched uranium as a byproduct of starting their own nuclear power plants for meth superlabs and breaking into the AI datacenter game

[u/OrdinaryLatvian → u/RarityNouveau]

All it takes is one to ruin the status quo. 

[u/Blueberryburntpie → u/External-Option-544]

The other solution is to give Ukraine nukes and then let the two have fun if Putin still wants to keep the war going.

Chad nukes in drone cropduster planes vs virgin ICBMs

[u/uzu_afk → u/External-Option-544]

Not to be confused with the 245 frozen russian asshats!

[u/TheOnlyFallenCookie → u/JesradSeraph]

Should have been Feb 25th 2022

[u/SuperDevton112 → u/JesradSeraph]

A shame Russia has nukes

[u/-rogerwilcofoxtrot- → u/SuperDevton112]

So do we, which means they're off the table.

[u/JesradSeraph → u/SuperDevton112]

At this point I think none of their nukes are truly functional.

[u/SuperDevton112 → u/JesradSeraph]

Have that sentiment at your own peril as I’m certain maintaining nukes is what a large chunk of the money in the Russian military goes to

[u/Grand-Yellow1259 → u/SuperDevton112]

Russia spends less than a third of what the US does to maintain twice the number of nukes. Plus, they couldn't stop people from stealing the fuel and critical components from systems they fully intended to use. Russia's nuclear program is either a shining paragon of non corruption and the most efficient use of government money on earth or it isn't.

[u/Dotcaprachiappa → u/JesradSeraph]

Operation Good Offence Is The Best Defence.

[u/Kreol1q1q → u/JesradSeraph]

Belgrade is still right there, you know….

[u/Jawkess → u/JesradSeraph]

Nato and the US only get militarily involved if it’s a guaranteed curb stomping. Aka the country doesn’t have nukes.

[u/JesradSeraph → u/Jawkess]

There would be no nuking involved from conventionally destroying ru positions in occupied Ukraine. Change my mind.

[u/Designer-Film-3663 → u/JesradSeraph]

Fortunately Europe isn't military capable enough to do it.

[u/UsedCarr0t → u/JesradSeraph]

What did republika srpska do this time?

[u/Euphoric_Number_8770]

One of the best examples when you fuck around and find out

[u/cunasmoker69420]

It is my well researched opinion that we must resume bombing Belgrade immediately

[u/OnDatReddit]

Let's not forget that the US put arms embargos on Croatia and Bosnia during the Yugoslav wars. While Serbs took over the majority of JNA arms and gear. Also don't forgot the part where the Bosnian army got to Banja Luka and then NATO threatened to bomb them if they went further.

[u/Upbeat_Ad_7002 → u/OnDatReddit]

Serb nationalists like to pull the victim card when talking about the bombing of Belgrade but conveniently omit that both Croatia and Bosnia were threatened to stop advancing, and they did because they did not in fact want to fuck around and find out

[u/HvalaBudala → u/Upbeat_Ad_7002]

Not trying to defend Serb nationalists, but bombing of Beograd was a different war. That was 1999 Kosovo.

[u/Upbeat_Ad_7002 → u/HvalaBudala]

I know, I'm saying everyone got the same stern threat to stop regardless of which war it was

[u/OnDatReddit → u/HvalaBudala]

Every war with them is basically the same war. Serb minorities in a country start making trouble when they are not ruled by Serbs. They don't know how to live peacefully as minorities.

[u/OMGLOL1986 → u/OnDatReddit]

Just remind them of how Turkey liberated them 600 years ago just like they tried to liberate Kosovo 

[u/DavidlikesPeace → u/HvalaBudala]

If anything that makes Serb nationalists look worse tho? 

From 1990-99, got caught committing not 1 not 2 but 3 different genocides. 

[u/communist_leprechaun → u/OnDatReddit]

That would require nuance in ncd

[u/Sine_Fine_Belli → u/communist_leprechaun]

Fortunately there is a lot more nuance in noncredible defense

[u/Nhobdy]

Oh god, it's NATO WITH THE STEEL CHAIR

[u/Scottish_Whiskey → u/Nhobdy]

Oh my god it’s a chair!

[u/Gyvon]

Belgrade delenda est.

[u/Kerbal_Guardsman]

Belgrade?  Belgorod?  All the same to me!

[u/Nosen]

Is that the old Serbian flag??

[u/I_did_a_fucky_wucky]

Thank you USA! You are my new best friend!

[u/Every-Dress-8221]

When NATO somehow decided to help a muslim majority country

[u/Wallhacks360]

HE'S SUGGGESTINGGGG

[u/NonCredibleDefense-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your comment was removed for violating Rule 1: Be Nice.

No personal attacks against each other, call for violence against anyone, or intentionally antagonize people in the comment sections.