discussion
One unfortunate bit of character-writing I felt was lost in the latter half of the manga MA was that Darkshine's timidness could never really overcome his better nature.
Which was really kinda sad since the manga fucking nailed it during the Garou vs Darkshine fight but tripped up with his later writing.
Darkshine will run away if his life is in danger, but if someone else is in trouble in front of him and there are no other heroes, he can't bring himself to do that no matter how afraid he is.
I feel like having his fear of Vomited Fuhrer Ugly and Golden Sperm override his concern for the people that were dying around him was a step back for his character writing.
At least in the webcomic and the manga initially, despite his fear and subsequent breakdowns, he still nutted up when it came down to it, and he went as far as his muscles could take him.
With VFU and GS, he was outmatched, but he genuinely could've made a difference if he continued to fight, which unfortunately makes his later concerns about not being built for hero work ring true.
It's been a fucking rough few years for Darkshine fans.
We lost his team up with Flashy and his last stand against Monster Garou. We got the utter humiliation that was his "fight" with VFU and Golden Sperm.
And then he was done for the rest of the arc.
At least we got his cool moment against Evil Natural Water, but that's a pretty shoddy consolation prize considering it just turned into Evil Natural Ocean.
Its a bit wild to me how darkshine can hold his own against awakened garou despite losing consciousness against an earlier garou. But it is definitely peak. As much as im one of the few that liked the manga turn of events, garou vs the s class is the one thing I feel should have been kept.
Please don't seriously use aura loss terms if you want to be taken seriously. Also she still offscreened Psykos and had helped against Rover significantly. Also Fubuki stopped for a while because she was very tired healing all.
And I disagree it undermine the psychic sister arc, rather it's treated differently, focusing more on their backstory than the webcomic and Tatsumaki feeling over weaker heroes.
fr, supports really get overlooked because they don't do as much damage as the others, just like what king experienced, Stones and diamonds may be different but each have their own roles. Fubuki cant obviously compete wih the likes of psyrochi and Tatsu or even the psychic group (mainly because the manga scaled the power levels from 1 to 10) so she did the best thing she can which is to support, and I'll take any lesser jobs than to be a nuisance to the main strike team
I mean the Rover moment is cool and all but they still only beat him by saying "sit" so ehh. Good team moment I guess.
It would've been cooler if the manga allowed Fubuki to defeat the leader of the Monster Association, y'know while the MA was actually still a thing and not after the damn arc was over and Cosmic Garou made everyone else look like peanuts.
It absolutely undermines the Psychic Sister arc, but even if it didn't, it wouldn't change much since the manga absolutely butchered that arc.
Putting aside that even in the webcomic, Garou made everyone look like peanuts,
Hell no. The sister arc was great in the manga. A lot more lore regarding the sisters origins and who took Tatsumaki, more fleshed out characterization for Tatsumaki, some pretty heartfelt moments for Fubuki and his group and a very entertaining fight between Tatsu and Saitama.
Not the same, Monster Garou was a physical threat but he didn't just kill everyone by breathing. Cosmic Garou could clap his ass cheeks and kill everyone
Psykos was beaten before Garou, so her presence actually had weight when Fubuki beat her.
Fuck no it wasn't. It made Fubuki look more incompetent and incapable than ever. Tatsumaki had to save her from her own choices, the Fubuki group didn't prove themselves to Tatsumaki and Tatsumaki backed off because Saitama asked, not because Fubuki and her group proved their mettle.
1 Maybe not by standing nearby, but Garou did still beat easily the entire S-class in the webcomic without a single sweat.
2 I would agree if Golden Sperm in the webcomic hadn't taken the spotlight in the meanwhile. That said, stopping the ex-leader from escaping on her own is still worthy of praise.
3 Tatsumaki saved Fubuki from a sneak attack from other powerful espers. But Fubuki still tried to stand up to her sister, although without fighting her like the webcomic. Same for the Fubuki group who kept pushing to stay with Fubuki even when she herself wanted them to leave. Saitama did played a big part in convincing Tatsumaki to let Fubuki keep her group (which did happen in the webcomic as well to an extent) but she also did after seeing their resolve in wanting to stay with Fubuki, even if they didn't end up fighting her directly.
My guy it's about the execution. Cosmic Garou being stronger than the S-Class doesn't just magically salvage the themes of Monster Garou vs S-Class.
Golden Sperm was the strongest. But he was still in a situation where Tatsumaki and the other S-Class were a very real threat. So Golden Sperm very much needed Psykos and Homeless Emperor's help. Not remotely the same as Cosmic Garou
Espers that Fubuki allowed into the group proving that Tatsumaki was right about her little club being more of a hindrance than help.
In the manga Tatsumaki had to pull Fubuki off her own group because she was making that much of a fool of herself trying and failing to scare them off. Tatsumaki had to do the group resolution for Fubuki.
Tatsumaki didn't choose to let them be because of their resolve. It was because of Saitama. At that point it didn't matter what the group did, because Saitama was the main reason Tatsumaki stopped.
And Tatsumaki left by threatening them, showing that she didn't respect them at all or have much faith in them in the end.
1 What themes? Seriously, I like that sequence in the webcomic, but when you stop to think about it, what did Garou beating the S-class achieve? The only character who got truly impacted by it was Darkshine. The others remained the same. Bang didn't partecipate and already wanted to drop the hero job after dealing with Garou. Child Emperor remained the same. Zombieman remained the same. Amai Mask remained the same. FF remained the same. Atomic Samurai did eventually decide to restart from scratch, but it was mainly due to his fight with Black Sperm and especially because of King. PPP remained the same. Garou fight with Saitama did make the latter be noticed by some of the S-class heroes, but the fight of Garou vs S-class didn't really have much of an impact to the overall story aside from crushing Darkshine spirit.
2 Sorta, but not really. Most of the S-class, including Tatsumaki were on their last leg, especially Tatsumaki.
3 It showed that Fubuki need to be more careful on who she add to her group, hence why the members who stayed had to prove they were willing to stand up for Fubuki by her side.
4 And again, Saitama did play a bigger part in helping Tatsumaki accept Fubuki group, but you could tell by the way she was looking that she was already considering it. And the threatening was just an encouragement to keep improving themselves. Not out of hatred.
Well depends reason why Darkshine was even more scared and backed down kinda better in the Manga since later you can see why he refuses to fight so much and retires as hero, while in WC conversation and his still keep going spirit against Garou is better, but then this still doesn't show that he is scared to fight, more that he doesn't wanted to face threats anymore that can defeat him and that he still be back if he wanted again. While in the Manga Darkshine is more emotional about it.
In the WC it highlighted how despite his fear, he didn't back down because he was the only one still up, and Monster Garou was gonna kill everyone as far as he knew.
I'd say both. He did want to help, but he was too insecure at that point and PPP encouraged him. The difference is that while in the webcomic it was monster Garou who made him lose his will completely while in the manga it was VFU with the extra touch of Golden Sperm.
Where did he say he knew he couldn't beat Garou? Like, they knew he was very tough but they still thought working together they might win, and then Garou proceeded to ragdoll them.
And you're twisting what I said. I never said Darkshine thought a victory with everyone was impossible, just that he knew that Garou was a very real threat to his life and that he continued to fight even when he knew he wouldn't win later on.
never said Darkshine thought a victory with everyone was impossible
he continued to fight even when he knew he wouldn't win later on
Those are contradiction. Darkshine tried fighting with FF against Garou hoping to win, but ultimately got offscreened quickly. In the manga he tried fighting VFU but the shock of seeing his body defense litterally melting weakened him mentally enough for Golden Sperm to ko. At that point, he simply couldn't keep fighting, since Cosmic Garou killed people just by standing nearby.
Personally I like what they did in the manga more than in the webcomic.
I always found the webcomic part to be very sudden (although it is cool) he suddenly gains his determination back without much reason for why it happened, while in the manga it's really a team effort to get Darkshine back into fighting shape. I also think they gave him some good moments to shine against Black Sperm and Evil Natural Water.
What I like about the manga version as well is that it really proved that Darkshine needs a lot more than a pep-talk to overcome his issues. Amai Mask and Puri simply reinforced Darkshine's coping mechanism e,g his muscles, and strength to compensate for his lack of confidence.
Once Vomited Fuhrer Ugly and Golden Sperm ripped that away from him in the most brutal way imaginable, it made sense that he collapsed, because it was his fight with Garou all over again (but even worse). I think it also made his retirement much more convincing than in the webcomic.
Except he doesn't get his determination back in the WC, though. He makes one last spurt to fulfill his job as a hero, and to put his life on the line to take Garou down, because he knows this is his last hoorah. His confidence has been completely shattered, and he's not gonna be picking himself back up from that. If so, if he knows that will be his last bout as the pro hero Super Alloy Darkshine, he at least wants to go out swinging. I think you may need to reread the webcomic, cuz you're mischaracterising WC Darkshine quite a lot
But the downside is that the manga kinda proved that the heroes were wrong about Darkshine and that when the chips came down to it, he really couldn't step up.
I prefer the webcomic and the initial manga characterization where despite the fact that he was afraid and kinda cowardly, deep down he would make the sacrificial choice.
Even if he gets his groove back later that doesn't change that he let people die in the manga. He genuinely shouldn't be an S-Class hero with how he broke down in the manga.
On the other hand, I did like how the manga at least showed that what Amai and Puri did was essentially a patch job and didn't actually help him. The problem is that now he has too many good reasons to stay in retirement.
He didn't prove that he could make a stand when all hope was lost. He didn't show that other people were more important than his pride or fear. And he just genuinely showed that he simply isn't built for this.
you're absolutely correct. darkshine was never mentally a hero. he was a bodybuilder who discovered on his bodybuilding path that he could kill monsters, and he leaned into that. he gained strength to preserve himself from bullying, ultimately. the impression i got was that he was already nigh-invulnerable when he joined the hero association, and so never got into any fights against monsters that threatened him, until garou
he's mentally weaker than someone like snake hands sneck, who, for all he's kind of a prick, repeatedly steps up against monsters he knows he can't beat, to defend people from them. the first time darkshine feels he's at risk of losing any fight, he completely collapses. it's sheer luck (and a testament to how tough he is) that he was able to spend years as a pro hero before he got to that point, running around with foolishness like pursuing "the strength of insects" (what was that about??)
And the thing that the webcomic did and the manga initially did was that despite it initially being an ego thing, it shows that Darkshine actually was a hero under the bravado.
That even under his fear he was still a good person that couldn't stand by and do nothing when someone was in danger in front of him.
He had layers to him.
Unfortunately now in the manga, his fear is his truest self.
why unfortunately? different story, different take on the character
take it from a fan of "the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy"; best to treat each adaptation as entirely separate and distinct works, not different versions of the same work. less stressful
DShine was and is always a nice dude. He is just not heroic as like other heroes.
He may be prideful when it comes to his muscles, but he does not boost about it like a egomaniac prick. He is not as prideful as the likes of Escanor. He does not even put down anyone who is weaker than him.
You don't understand the character of DShine.
He may have a one last stand moment in WComic. But, in reality, someone who suffers such a mental break down and huge trauma can't easily stand up with just a little talk no jutsu like a typical shounen manga.
DShine is just a dude who trained so hard he achieved such a powerful body and he use that body to help the people while also proving to himself that he is strong.
I think just because he faltered doesn't mean he didn't prove he was a hero. I think the MA arc highlighted that everyone in the S-class (as well as the A, B, C class) were heroes in different ways and contributed to the operation being a narrow success.
And Darkshine definitely saved more people than he got "killed", he killed dozens of the MA monsters, saved Atomic and his disciples from Evil Natural Water and Black Sperm, was pivotal in taking down Psychorochi when they were in their jet form, saved Genos and Tatsumaki from Black Sperm etc, Puri Puri Prisoner from Garou. etc. He contributed A LOT to the success of the raid.
I think the takeaway is that Darkshine IS a hero, but he needs to actually build up his confidence in a healthy way instead of solely relying on his muscles/strength.
He didn't falter, he straight up couldn't act and was paralyzed by fear. That's significantly more than just faltering.
And I didn't say he didn't save anyone at all. I pointed out that even when he was in danger in the webcomic and earlier manga that he still was more concerned about others.
The point wasn't "Darkshine didn't contribute to the raid."
Your missing my main point, which is that I don't think he should retire/should never have been a hero. Darkshine has a bad mindset, which the MA arc highlighted, but he has the capacity to change and improve (and I think the manga highlighted this in a much more interesting way).
A big part of ONE's writing is that people have the capacity to change and grow and Darkshine is a prime example of this (which is being explored in the webcomic atm).
The manga didn't highlight that though. It showed that when he came down to it, that in the end his fear won out and that it was always only about his pride.
That's why I said initially the manga did a good job with Darkshine being more concerned about Garou's safety as the caves were collapsing, then walked it all back during the surface fight.
I get that what they're probably trying to do, but that plot beat doesn't work.
Darkshine would have to change as a person, showing that selflessness in fact wasn't in him all along and that the other heroes didn't have a reason to believe in him.
It was something he had to develop after the fact.
Honestly, him being broken down mentally by the monster cadre suit the ending of him retiring from HA then him immediately able to stand on his ground after puripuri prep talk lol.
I disagree, we already have that character archetype (King).
Darkshine is a good contrast to Tanktop Master. Darkshine clearly outclasses him but despite this, TTM uses his losses as motivation to become better and never cowers in fear especially when others are in danger. His beatdown was WAYYYY worse than Darkshine and yet this didn’t set him back.
Darkshine, despite having all that strength only feels comfortable being a hero when he’s in complete control. His losses only make him weaker and that’s why he’s given up.
Aside from being afraid when their lives are threatened, King and Darkshine don't have remotely the same beats.
In his fight against Garou in the manga and the webcomic, despite losing and wanting to run, he can't bring himself to do that when other people are in danger.
Then the manga walked that back with GS and VFU.
That's not the same as King who will literally die if he runs into a wolf level threat that doesn't know his reputation.
I don't know what you're disagreeing with. Darkshine can be a good contrast to TTM while still having that line he can't cross.
The difference is that Monster Garou was what gave him the new mental blockade.
It's about the execution. With Monster Garou, despite gaining that trauma, he proved to himself and others that he would still make the sacrifice play when the chips were down.
That was why Child Emperor and Metal Bat believed in him despite the fact that Darkshine couldn't see past the trauma that MG inflicted.
Now, he genuinely has a good reason to quit. In the manga he simply couldn't overcome his fear and proved in the end that he was just in this for his pride.
And in the webcomic he doesn't overcome that mental blockade, he just fights despite his massive fear because other people were in trouble and that was more pressing than his fear. Then he recognized that fear in others like Raiden, and that was his character arc.
In the manga he just genuinely lost to that fear when it mattered the most.
It's unfortunate, but that character beat doesn't really work in the manga anymore.
The way I see it is that the manga is prolonging his arc to overcome his fear, I think it's way more hard hitting for him to be beaten down like this, then during the NEO heroes arc he can actually prove himself. Darkshine losing his confidence and quitting being a hero is actually more justified in the manga. It just means the manga developed a much harder mental blockade for his character, which I think is better and will make his redemption in the future even more impactful
There is, his heroism is there, it's why puri was able to temporarily boost his confidence, it's just that his mentality is so shattered at the moment he needs to find it again. There's just a deeper hole in the manga
Being able to stand up for his teammates when they were struggling is still heroism. And it's part of his character development to make that distinction so that he learns to be a hero without his ego, that's what happens in the webcomic, but the manga just takes it further. It really just seems like you're intentionally trying to just bash the manga without seeing any of its development beats.
If anything its much better because Darkshine actually falters for trying to reassert his invulnerability against weaker monsters instead of fighting no matter if he wins or loses
Darkshine now has to actually recover from genuinely failing to grow and it will make his redemption that much better
I argue the contrary, the manga has done Darkshine arc far better so far than the webcomic.
Darkshine's confidence being restored when he reasserts his own invulnerability fighting ENW and the billions of Black Sperm copies that couldn't damage him set up his downfall perfectly for not having learned to fight even if he wins or loses.
For this sin of arrogance he is punished and humilliated by two stronger monsters, one melts his muscles and the other outshines him completely.
Now it remains to be seen how the rest of hs icharacter arc is done, but this is already a far stronger base to start from.
You put it in better words I could ever.
I love that he was building up his confidence and actually turning the table in favour of the heroes.
The manga actually shows his strength tenants and shallowness:
He equates his strength and self respect to his pride in his body.
When that got chattered, everything else came crashing down.
That's one of the best set down I've seen in manga.
The psychology behind self-confidence is simple, but not easy to pull off.
I’m a little confused. It wasn’t his fear that held him back against Ugly and golden sperm.
Ugly actually damaged Darkshine…unlike when he lost his confidence against Garou. Darkshine thought nothing could harm his muscles…. And then it actually happened. He was harmed.
He then witnessed Golden Sperm literally outshine him with superior muscles and shiny exterior. Then got knocked out. Golden sperm was stronger than Darkshine at that moment. We know this because…although it was the acid that damaged Darkshine…Ugly still stalemated Darkshine strength wise.
Golden Sperm then demolished Ugly.
I don’t remember Darkshine going through that in the webcomic.
How is being knocked out in the webcomic suffering more than getting acid damage on his fists and chest AND being knocked out of the fight like in the manga?
The manga didn’t nail anything bro. The paneling in the webcomic and the tone was so far different in it that I find it hard that people call it the same.
But he did? In the webcomic he went into a ball and stopped fighting all together until PPP gave him a bit of encouragement. Then when he tried again against Garou he got ko for good.
Entire thing got messy in writing around the time that Psykos-Orochi was introduced. Don't get me wrong, cool design, cool battle and visual spectacle. But the writing started to get messy for the plot and characters.
An important thing to note that you don't mention (despite it being a very significant part of WC Darkshine's character in this moment) is that while what you said about him is true (as we see in the Neo Heroes arc), that is not actually why he gets back up to fight Garou
Darkshine got back up to fight again because Garou had crushed his spirit in a way he couldn't really pull himself back from, and he couldn't find it in himself to wake up the next day and still continue to work as a hero. At that time, in his mind, this would be his last outing as Superalloy Darkshine. If so, even if he could no longer continue being a hero beyond that point, he at least wanted to go out swinging, to have one last hoorah, throw everything into that one final fight
The manga's major sin that it makes with his character, imho, is the fact that it actually decides to have him recover from Garou's ass whooping and find his confidence again, just for it to repeat itself, but far worse. The manga just makes it so unserious. Hell, it literally uses his moments with VFU and GS for laughs. Furthermore, for the sake of the original theme/narrative of the arc, it has to be Garou, no one else. He's literally supposed to be the arc's mouthpiece for criticising the very idea of heroes, as well as the S-Class heroes themselves, it shouldn't even be anyone else
A lot of the Monster Association Arcs great writing was unfortunately lost when it was adapted in the manga, this sadly being just one of many examples
Couldn't One/Murata do a revision? They do like a million revisions, so why not one for Darkshine? If not, I hope theres some sort of growth/level up for Darkshine in the future. He's easily my favorite S class hero.
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u/Interesting_Bee2899 5d ago
It's been a fucking rough few years for Darkshine fans.
We lost his team up with Flashy and his last stand against Monster Garou. We got the utter humiliation that was his "fight" with VFU and Golden Sperm.
And then he was done for the rest of the arc.
At least we got his cool moment against Evil Natural Water, but that's a pretty shoddy consolation prize considering it just turned into Evil Natural Ocean.