r/PBtA • u/Entire_Impress7485 • 14d ago
Investigation move in Thirsty Sword Lesbians?
Is there any move or similar action in Thirsty Sword Lesbians that lets you investigate situations, not just people? I haven’t been able to find one in the rule book. If one doesn’t exist, how does a GM avoid the need for that? I’ve found it narratively essential in games like DnD and Monster of the Week.
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u/PoMoAnachro 14d ago
So, TSL doesn't explicitly say this I don't think, but in general here's the rule in most PbtA games for when a player tries to do something that doesn't trigger any moves:
Player says what they're doing, and then the GM consults their principles and agenda and says what happens.
Boom. That's the generic resolution mechanism for anything that doesn't trigger any other Move.
Don't forget about the triggers for GM Moves too though. Most PbtAs (including TSL) have some kind of "When the table looks to you to see what happens next" trigger for making a GM move. And often a player doing something that doesn't trigger a player-facing move will hit that GM move trigger, which means the GM is then obligated to make a GM move. Often investigatory type actions are a pretty clear example of a player doing something that should trigger a GM Move, usually one that reveals information to introduce more conflict or up the stakes.
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u/Boulange1234 14d ago
Yes this!
Designers know about perception & investigation checks. If it’s not there, it’s missing for a reason. Urban Shadows 2 doesn’t have a “look around” move because you’re meant to investigate mysteries by talking to people. It has ONE investigate move for investigating a place of power, and that’s it other than a few playbook moves.
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u/ThisIsVictor 14d ago
TSL cares about the relationships between people and with people's relationship with power. That's why you have Entice, Figure Out A Person and Call on a Toxic Power, but not Read a Situation or Investigate. Mysteries in TSL are about people, not places or situations.
So how do you investigate a situation? Just have the player answer questions and then answer them. If there's a risk, call for a Defy Danger roll first.
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u/maybesastre 14d ago
My players tend to lean on their playbook moves for high stakes investigation. Like the Beast's Tracker, the Chosen's Guidance from Above, or the Scary Witch's Commune with the Unseen. For low stakes investigation or if they've come up with a creative solution, I tend to just let them have it. Not everything has to be a roll and it's more important to keep the story rolling.
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u/ChaosCelebration 14d ago
That's intentional. Or at least it should be. Any PbtA game is designed to tell a certain kind of story. Things that are not involved with that kind of story are not really supported. Masks doesn't have a sneak move because you need to be confronting things head on. That doesn't mean you can't sneak. You certainly can, but success or failure in sneaking isn't what the game is about. Urban Shadows doesn't have a "read a sitch" move because you're supposed to be using your relationships to find out what's going on. You should be using debts to gain information. That doesn't mean you can't ask the GM what you notice. Just that if there's something really juicy, you should be asking the people who know. If TSL didn't have an investigation move it's because the game is telling you, you need to be getting this information from other places (probably the people who you love/hate.)
Edit: Monster of the week REQUIRES an investigation move because the game is ABOUT that. Almost to the exclusion of everything else. D&D isn't a tightly designed game and allows a lot of everything. But PbtA games are designed for a purpose. They are weapons designed to give you a specific experience.
You can always go grab any investigate move from any PbtA book and it'll be fine. But I encourage you to use the tools the game gives you. Make your solutions to problems be accessible through those jeans and that will enhance the game. PbtA games are ABOUT GMing in a certain style. The game should be pushing you to a style of story and the less you fight it the more you will get out of these games. The more you hack and mod your way through these games you end up throwing away what these designs are doing.
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u/Throwingoffoldselves 13d ago edited 13d ago
Yes, there is, but only in certain playbooks and settings. The Beast has a tracking move, the Investigator can find an unexpected but useful detail, and the setting for Neon City 2099 has a netscape investigation/rumor custom move. As mentioned, other playbooks have other information-gaining moves. And otherwise, one can Entice, Figure Out a Person, or Call on a Toxic Power to get someone to give up information.
Otherwise, I avoid the need for it by using plots that are more drama than mystery. There are still mystery elements - for example, a missing bride, a secret revolutionary’s identity, a mysterious power at the heart of a castle, the nature of a magical egg are some - and I definitely recommend reading through the published adventures for more.
If you’re interested, there’s a TSL discord that the creator is on that is really helpful for more questions like this :) let me know if you want the link
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u/RollForThings 14d ago
I see two options:
The basic move Defy Disaster is for situations that want a move but that other moves don't cover. Using this would probably be +Heart or +Wits, depending on the situation. Just keep in mind that for this move to apply, the PC needs to be achieving something extraordinary, and there needs to be stakes involving something the PC is willing to sacrifice. It's called defy disaster; it's not a move about simple lore curiosity.
Figure out what the stopping point is, and resolve it based on the nature of the stopping point.
- Is the player just unsure about what to do next, and is looking for information so they can have confidence to act? If so, just give them more information about the scene so they can act. Provide some ideas or ask about their character if they're really stuck.
- Is the player asking to make an Investigation check because nothing is happening in the game? If so, it's your time to make a GM move. Get something happening for the players to act on.
- Is there something mysterious with stakes involved, that the player wants to proactively uncover? Use the GM move 'Offer what they want at a high cost'. "You can nab the schematics from Admiral Thornheart's computer, no move needed, but it will trip the alarms and the place will be swarming with Thornbots in moments. What do you do?"
- Is a situation based on mysterious circumstances, which the player wants to bring to light? Ask them how exactly they do that. IMO, "Investigation" skill rolls often translate to "let the mechanics skip and/or abstract me actually engaging with the mystery so the GM can tell me the answer". If a player wants to solve a mysterious situation, I think it's boring for them to just know the answer because of a roll. Drill down to what the PCs actually do to solve a mystery, and channel that into the gameplay. Do they interview/interrogate people (Figure Out a Person)? Do they persuade others to reveal secrets (Entice)? Do they defeat someone in a duel to get info (Fight)? Not having a "passively figure it out" move directs the game to what it's about, taking personal, intimate action.
- As a related aside, the Alien RPG, which heavily features avoiding and hiding from alien danger, doesn't have a Stealth skill. The game explicitly doesn't let you roll Stealth and call it a day for ensuring your safety. Instead, you have to get into what exactly you're doing to avoid the aliens, which reinforces the horror aspects of the game.
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u/TimeBlossom Perception checks are dumb 14d ago edited 14d ago
DnD aside, Monster of the Week is a game that's specifically about investigating mysteries, so that's why it has moves for looking around (well, that and early-PbtA defaultism). Thirsty Sword Lesbians isn't; it's a game about characters being dramatic and having sword fights and kissing. The uncertainty of what you might find when looking around a room doesn't generally lead to drama or sword fights or kissing, so that's why the game doesn't have a move for it; it's just not important enough to have specific mechanics.
So, if you do find your players looking around at something, ask yourself the following questions:
Is the investigation focused on a place that's important to a specific and interesting person, like their bedroom or office or something? If so, then this is a good trigger for Figure Out a Person. If not...
Are they looking for something specific in a situation that has sufficient narrative and dramatic weight? If so, then make an appropriate move, perhaps Offer what they want at a high cost if they're looking for clues in a dangerous place and hanging around too long can get them accosted, or Escalate the stakes of a conflict by revealing a clue that makes things more dramatic than they already were. If not...
Just tell them what they find. Perception checks aren't actually that important most of the time, and learning not to make everything a roll or an exchange is a good habit to get into.