r/PS4 • u/cristi1990an cristi1990anRO • Sep 01 '18

[Video] [Video] BioWare Makes Fun of Marvel's Spider-Man's "PuddleGate" Controversy

https://youtu.be/yQph-_imtDY
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1.3k

u/oO_Gero_Oo Sep 01 '18

Good. That controversy is fucking stupid

354

u/USAFWRX Sep 02 '18

Out of the loop, what happened?

848

u/sonofseriousinjury Sep 02 '18 edited Sep 02 '18

An old gameplay trailer showed a puddle on the floor. A new trailer showed the puddle was smaller. Some people said Insomniac was downgrading the game just like Watch Dogs and want their heads on spikes.

EDIT: Even if they had to make graphical concessions in order to improve performance/gameplay I think it's funny how many people are vehemently upset by this.

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u/And_You_Like_It_Too Sep 02 '18 edited Sep 03 '18

Supposedly, the original argument wasn’t actually about the puddles — it’s about the (alleged) removal of real-time reflections. Meaning, when Spiderman swings by or runs along a building with reflective/mirrored glass, it will show the reflection of everything except him. They were saying that no character models (including Spiderman) have a reflection in glass windows, puddles, etc. anymore, and that puddle was reduced to minimize how obvious it was that none of the character models were reflecting in the puddle (after that scene previously showed off the reflections in an earlier trailer). People don’t care about puddles, they care about basic reflections. Again, I’m not saying they’re right in saying or believing that, but to not give it that context is as silly as believing that they’re outraged about the removal or reduction of a solitary puddle.

Do I personally care about the controversy? No. Preordered and anxious to play it. Just figured I’d try to clear up the misinformation a little.

—————

Clarifications:

  1. Several people below have pointed out images, gifs, and videos that demonstrate puddle reflections. I don’t know exactly “when” the game was supposedly downgraded, puddles changed, or reflections removed... so it’s hard to know if the images and gifs in comments are from before or after that time. But what matters now is that it definitely appears that they’re in game, so all you puddle-gaters out there, this should put it to rest (I hope). Look through the comments below and be your own judge.
  2. I should have chosen a more recent gif of Spiderman running on a glass building without a reflection; I wasn’t expecting this comment to be so huge. Some have claimed that this gif proves that there were never glass reflections of Spiderman on buildings. Others have claimed that there are minimal reflections (I’m not sure how recent this gif is, or what source it came from). In the August 16th “Just the Facts” video, at 0:39, 1:08, and 1:59 there don’t appear to be obvious reflections, but this could be due to the time of day, the orientation of the sun, which compass direction Spiderman was facing on that building’s surface, etc.
  3. I never intended to be the mouthpiece of this controversy. My intention was just to point out that it was the reflections (or lack thereof), and not the puddles, that people were originally discussing. Then articles, threads, and videos began discussing the puddle outrage without that context. I personally think “puddle-gate” is stupid. I think complaining about reflections is stupid. I think this entire thread is why CD Projekt Red was hesitant to show us “Cyberpunk 2077” gameplay, because it will be analyzed to death and people will be outraged over any graphical changes or alleged downgrades, no matter how minor.
  4. I apologize if I misled, misinformed, or misspoke in any way. I’d have chosen my words more carefully or not commented at all, had I known it would blow up like this.
  5. “Spiderman” looks amazing. That’s what we SHOULD be talking about.

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '18 edited Sep 02 '18

No character models (including Spiderman) have a reflection in glass windows, puddles, etc. anymore

This is a blatant lie.

https://imgur.com/CACrXSr.gif

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u/Dallywack3r Sep 02 '18

People are just making shit up in order to stubbornly stay mad at Sony instead of just admitting that, yeah, that controversy was pretty ridiculous and baseless.

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u/Trelga Sep 02 '18

No its the stupid gaming culture, always looking for anything to whine about. It's getting pathetic.

​

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u/Dallywack3r Sep 02 '18

I cannot think of a bigger oxymoronic statement right now than “Gaming culture.” As I understand from browsing /r/gaming a while back, gaming “culture” consists of constant overwhelming negativity, blind worshipping of two or three major gaming studios, an unhealthy and honestly creepy obsession over attractive female cosplayers, bigoted and unfair disliking of pretty much any game focused on anyone who’s not white and male, and a masturbatory fixation on nostalgia. I’m sure I missed some major tenet of gaming culture like frame rate circlejerking or shitty outdated Skyrim memes but that was how I understood it.

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '18

Wow that is accurate

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '18

No it isn't. Why do people always forget the good parts when it's convienent for them?

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '18

Why do people always forget the good parts when it's convienent for them?

What do I have to gain from such a simple statement? The guy is speaking the truth I've seen those things for myself. And I've been directly affected. It's no lie the community can be toxic at times.

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '18

What do I have to gain from such a simple statement?

Reputation? Nuance? Not throwing yourself into the same pit as the actual demons?

It's no lie the community can be toxic at times

I'm not denying that. I AM denying that it's so rampant as to pretend gaming is 99% toxic like we're back in some 80's movie. Yes I have experienced it too. No not everyday, nor am I shaking in my boots in fear over that toxic element.

Look, we as a culture are not in a good state right now. Apparently video games are now a specific, clinical addiction, we had a shooting that's gonna bring the whole guns political BS back in the media, and there's tons of "nerd culture" personalities being accused of misconduct. And ofc the medium is still struggling to be recognized as "art". Promoting things like this as if it is not just the norm, but the majority and an everyday occurrence is the last thing we need atm. We have enough people who don't understand the culture looking in with confused and disgusted eyes. Let's not do it to each other too and show that there are good actors and they are the norm. We can condemn the bad while not making it seem like we're also bad, y'know?

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '18

Reputation? Nuance? Not throwing yourself into the same pit as the actual demons?

My comment has a downvote, I'm not getting any reputation. It's the dang internet no one knows me or my face so I can't possible gain anonymous reputation it adds nothing

I'm not denying that

Then why are we arguing, we are on the same page!

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '18

Reputation? Nuance? Not throwing yourself into the same pit as the actual demons?

My comment has a downvote, I'm not getting any reputation. It's the dang internet no one knows me or my face so I can't possible gain anonymous reputation it adds nothing

I'm not denying that

Then why are we arguing, we are on the same page!

0

u/[deleted] Sep 02 '18

Same page different spectrum. Theres a huge difference between "there's toxicity in the culture" and "the culture is toxic". One recognizes bad actors, the other assumes bad actors are the norm. Nuance. It may not be as bad as stereotyping a race or gender, but it's still something we should avoid.

Btw. I think you reposted... 3 times?

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '18

Theres a huge difference between "there's toxicity in the culture" and "the culture is toxic".

Again we are on the same page, my comment said there is toxicity in the culture. I never said that it everyone is 10000% toxic. That's like saying entirety of humanity is evil because of terrorists and criminals.

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '18

Guess I may have been confused given the comment you replied to.

That's like saying entirety of humanity is evil because of terrorists and criminals.

Atm it's a subtly we kinda need. Kinda like how a statement as benign as "women, amirite?" obviously doesn't include all women but is still seen as rude given the historical context behind it.

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '18

No problem

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '18

Reputation? Nuance? Not throwing yourself into the same pit as the actual demons?

My comment has a downvote, I'm not getting any reputation. It's the dang internet no one knows me or my face so I can't possible gain anonymous reputation it adds nothing

I'm not denying that.

Then why are we arguing, we are on the same page!

0

u/[deleted] Sep 02 '18

Reputation? Nuance? Not throwing yourself into the same pit as the actual demons?

My comment has a downvote, I'm not getting any reputation. It's the dang internet no one knows me or my face so I can't possible gain anonymous reputation it adds nothing

I'm not denying that

Then why are we arguing, we are on the same page!

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u/Neuchacho Sep 02 '18 edited Sep 02 '18

The 'hardcore gamer' is probably one of the best examples of human garbage going.

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '18

look I get that, like every other "culture" out there, we have our toxic elements, but it's a very, very wide brush to think all gamers are like that. "gaming culture" includes the Speedrunners, pro players, youtubers, guide makers, critics, and many many more groups. there is a ton of positive elements out there and it does no good to have fellow gamers trash their own culture because of the relatively few bad actors. the culture is still young and we have enough of an uphill battle without the infighting.

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '18

Yeah after GG I'm gonna say it's not exactly accurate to say that the toxic elements of gaming are "a few bad eggs." The other guy was completely on the spot and we should deal with those issues instead of trying to dance around them.

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '18

Yeah after GG I'm gonna say it's not exactly accurate to say that the toxic elements of gaming are "a few bad eggs."

in a relative sense. there are how many millions of gamers nowadays? lemme know when GG does anything IRL and not just spam people's twitters or emails.

we should deal with those issues instead of trying to dance around them.

we can deal with the issue while not throwing out the baby with the bathwater. IDK how the above comment is "dealing with the issue" by exagerrating the minority as the majority.

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '18

Uh... you mean like sending death and rape mail to people's houses? Posting peoples' personal info on the web? Spreading lies about people to affect their personal lives? Threatening peoples' families? I wouldn't call any of that just "spamming" peoples' Twitters.

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '18

Yes, all that is online BS not unique to GG in the slightest. Take GG out and it'd be some other hashtag/controversy started by Tumblr or a 4 channer or a Facebook group or whatever. GG (let alone gamers in general) don't have exclusive rights or discovery of these tactics.

It sucks and I condemn it and I'm glad there are organizations out there studying online behavior to better combat this. but it's also not quite on the level of something IRL like a riot, shooting, or RL stalking (I DO count cyberbullying in cases where it's an extension of RL harassment). At the end of the day the vast majority of people can close their screen and not get caught up in that drama by not participating. Whereas they may get caught up on those RL examples by unfortunate circumstance. You simply don't get the virtoil on the level you describe without being an active participant. And I don't mean this to be some semblance of victim blaming. It leads to my next point.

As for usual victims: at the end of the day we (as a society. I'm kinda against it but whatevs) accept that public figures like Celebrities, reporters politician, etc. have to exercise caution on social media when speaking because they will not be sympathized should controversy (and everything you mentioned, outside of perhaps relatives being threatened) arise. Social media is basically another PR arm for them and society has deemed that they are accountable for what they say and do in that space.

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u/bubblegumpandabear Sep 02 '18 edited Sep 02 '18

But most people talk and play videogames online? And yeah, it is pretty unique to GG. You don't see other fandoms flipping the fuck out over tiny things and literally destroying people's lives. The only thing I can think of as an equal is sports fans destroying public property and beating the shit out of each other. It is toxic as fuck, and at least sports have been slowly getting better at improving, and the majority of the fans agree somewhat to the changes. Video game fans resist every single hint of change as if they actually have some sort of power over the companies and the market. News flash, if you stop playing video games, they'll just continue catering to everyone else like they've been trying to forever now. And it will be a lot easier without the hateful basement assholes spreading their edgy 4chan "humor" across social media and into the inboxes of unsuspecting developers.

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '18 edited Sep 02 '18

most people do not in fact talk online. based on that famous pew study from a few years ago, online gamers are only a 3rd of of the population for "frequent players". 60% of these peole (also based on Pew) use voice chat. so, it's ~20% of the population at best. many still seem to prefer non-competitive games, be it single player or "online games" with no competitive component.

You don't see other fandoms flipping the fuck out over tiny things and literally destroying people's lives.

Yeah you do. know quite a few Fandoms whose overzealousness has impacted real people. for a more lighthearted example check out FNAF's Fandom and their "controversies"

Video game fans resist every single hint of change as if they actually have some sort of power over the companies and the market.

there you go over generalizing again. no, most don't. 90% of video game fans aren't even gonna know what GG is, let alone comment about small changes in gameplay. you really gotta stop thinking that everyone's on reddit commenting on games. by the general 90-9-1 rule, they statistically aren't.

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u/bubblegumpandabear Sep 02 '18

FNAF is a video game. And yeah, most don't, but a frightening amount do. You can't deny that with just how many people were engaged in GG. The hundreds of youtube channels and their thousands of subscribers that did video and video after video about Anita Sarkesian is pretty damning.

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '18

FNAF is a video game.

yes with what many thought was a crazed Fandom at its peak of popularity.

You can't deny that with just how many people were engaged in GG.

engaged in GG as in actively did nothing more than talk shit and complain about SJWs on Twitter? sure that's a lot of people. Maybe some people cashed in on selling outrage on YouTube or Twitter from it (Milo Yiannapolus for instance springboarded on that. can't remember the last time peole remember him as an GG advocate. not even GG people). lot of shit slinging but look where we are right now, in a topic related to complaining about a damn puddle.

actively sent out death and rape threats? I wouldnt be surprised if I could count the number of those people in my hands. pretty sure GG didn't enable them either; they would have waited for next week's controversy and jumped on that. unfortunately death threats to public figures is not an unusual occurrence (and lartof why I don't believe the whole "they are accountable for their social media actions" wholesale).

The hundreds of youtube channels and their thousands of subscribers that did video and video after video about Anita Sarkesian is pretty damning.

to be fair she is a rather polarizing figure. I've listened to various media on the subject of diversity and gaming, some from women. it can get unsavory in the comments but it's not like simply being a woman taking about games is enough to get you the ire Sakeesian got. partof it was due to her suspect splicing of scenes out of context and possible plagiarism. OFC no one talks about those because people on both sides focus on the radical ends and the more subtle voices were washed out.

Also note that all many did was make response videos. some peole took it too far there but no one was threatened at the end of the day. this isn't like the harassment she received on Kickstarter over her campaign.

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