[Video] BioWare Makes Fun of Marvel's Spider-Man's "PuddleGate" Controversy

[u/cristi1990an]

https://youtu.be/yQph-_imtDY

[u/oO_Gero_Oo]

Good. That controversy is fucking stupid

[u/USAFWRX → u/oO_Gero_Oo]

Out of the loop, what happened?

[u/sonofseriousinjury → u/USAFWRX]

An old gameplay trailer showed a puddle on the floor. A new trailer showed the puddle was smaller. Some people said Insomniac was downgrading the game just like Watch Dogs and want their heads on spikes.

EDIT: Even if they had to make graphical concessions in order to improve performance/gameplay I think it's funny how many people are vehemently upset by this.

[u/[deleted] → u/sonofseriousinjury]

Saw some gameplay from the Canadian Expo thats this weekend and a puddle that looks just as nice was in the game just not the same location.

[u/curiousincident → u/sonofseriousinjury]

I would much rather have a dynamic game with slightly less graphics than lots of over the top graphics additions at the cost of a bland world.

[u/ShittyThrowAway0091 → u/curiousincident]

Well lucky you, they haven't downgraded at all and the game looks great!

[u/[deleted] → u/sonofseriousinjury]

There's no downgrade, in fact the game looks better in many ways than the old build.

Many more shadows:

https://i.imgur.com/x7nZbTE.jpg

Spidey suit now looks like cloth, not rubber:

https://i.imgur.com/x0Jl5sJ.jpg

Puddles/reflections

https://imgur.com/CACrXSr.gif

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

honestly i kinda like the rubber look for super hero suits

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Would be easier to render.

[u/NoOneLikesNebraskans → u/[deleted]]

What the heck was Spiderman doing in the puddles one?? It looks like he's floating in air.

[u/armarrash → u/NoOneLikesNebraskans]

Yeah gameplay wise it looks really fun, but immersion wise it's shit taking the player completely out of the experience.

Ps: I'm not someone that really cares about immersion so I don't think it will bother me that much when I have my hands on it.

[u/Citizen_Kong → u/[deleted]]

God, I love how fluid the fighting looks. Why can't it be next weekend already?!

[u/And_You_Like_It_Too → u/sonofseriousinjury]

Supposedly, the original argument wasn’t actually about the puddles — it’s about the (alleged) removal of real-time reflections. Meaning, when Spiderman swings by or runs along a building with reflective/mirrored glass, it will show the reflection of everything except him. They were saying that no character models (including Spiderman) have a reflection in glass windows, puddles, etc. anymore, and that puddle was reduced to minimize how obvious it was that none of the character models were reflecting in the puddle (after that scene previously showed off the reflections in an earlier trailer). People don’t care about puddles, they care about basic reflections. Again, I’m not saying they’re right in saying or believing that, but to not give it that context is as silly as believing that they’re outraged about the removal or reduction of a solitary puddle.

Do I personally care about the controversy? No. Preordered and anxious to play it. Just figured I’d try to clear up the misinformation a little.

—————

Clarifications:

1. Several people below have pointed out images, gifs, and videos that demonstrate puddle reflections. I don’t know exactly “when” the game was supposedly downgraded, puddles changed, or reflections removed... so it’s hard to know if the images and gifs in comments are from before or after that time. But what matters now is that it definitely appears that they’re in game, so all you puddle-gaters out there, this should put it to rest (I hope). Look through the comments below and be your own judge.
2. I should have chosen a more recent gif of Spiderman running on a glass building without a reflection; I wasn’t expecting this comment to be so huge. Some have claimed that this gif proves that there were never glass reflections of Spiderman on buildings. Others have claimed that there are minimal reflections (I’m not sure how recent this gif is, or what source it came from). In the August 16th “Just the Facts” video, at 0:39, 1:08, and 1:59 there don’t appear to be obvious reflections, but this could be due to the time of day, the orientation of the sun, which compass direction Spiderman was facing on that building’s surface, etc.
3. I never intended to be the mouthpiece of this controversy. My intention was just to point out that it was the reflections (or lack thereof), and not the puddles, that people were originally discussing. Then articles, threads, and videos began discussing the puddle outrage without that context. I personally think “puddle-gate” is stupid. I think complaining about reflections is stupid. I think this entire thread is why CD Projekt Red was hesitant to show us “Cyberpunk 2077” gameplay, because it will be analyzed to death and people will be outraged over any graphical changes or alleged downgrades, no matter how minor.
4. I apologize if I misled, misinformed, or misspoke in any way. I’d have chosen my words more carefully or not commented at all, had I known it would blow up like this.
5. “Spiderman” looks amazing. That’s what we SHOULD be talking about.

[u/[deleted] → u/And_You_Like_It_Too]

No character models (including Spiderman) have a reflection in glass windows, puddles, etc. anymore

This is a blatant lie.

https://imgur.com/CACrXSr.gif

[u/Dallywack3r → u/[deleted]]

People are just making shit up in order to stubbornly stay mad at Sony instead of just admitting that, yeah, that controversy was pretty ridiculous and baseless.

[u/Trelga → u/Dallywack3r]

No its the stupid gaming culture, always looking for anything to whine about. It's getting pathetic.

​

[u/Dallywack3r → u/Trelga]

I cannot think of a bigger oxymoronic statement right now than “Gaming culture.” As I understand from browsing /r/gaming a while back, gaming “culture” consists of constant overwhelming negativity, blind worshipping of two or three major gaming studios, an unhealthy and honestly creepy obsession over attractive female cosplayers, bigoted and unfair disliking of pretty much any game focused on anyone who’s not white and male, and a masturbatory fixation on nostalgia. I’m sure I missed some major tenet of gaming culture like frame rate circlejerking or shitty outdated Skyrim memes but that was how I understood it.

[u/[deleted] → u/Dallywack3r]

Wow that is accurate

[u/Neuchacho → u/Dallywack3r]

The 'hardcore gamer' is probably one of the best examples of human garbage going.

[u/[deleted] → u/Dallywack3r]

look I get that, like every other "culture" out there, we have our toxic elements, but it's a very, very wide brush to think all gamers are like that. "gaming culture" includes the Speedrunners, pro players, youtubers, guide makers, critics, and many many more groups. there is a ton of positive elements out there and it does no good to have fellow gamers trash their own culture because of the relatively few bad actors. the culture is still young and we have enough of an uphill battle without the infighting.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Yeah after GG I'm gonna say it's not exactly accurate to say that the toxic elements of gaming are "a few bad eggs." The other guy was completely on the spot and we should deal with those issues instead of trying to dance around them.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

God damn it this game looks so good. Ugh, exclusives are painful.

[u/[deleted] → u/And_You_Like_It_Too]

Uhh that gif is super old though like one of the first footages released after the initial e3 trailer, thats not the controversy were talking about here.

The controversy is about that specific puddle because it was shown in more recent gameplay.

and there is some reflection https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/showynegativecaracal

[u/kraenk12 → u/And_You_Like_It_Too]

How’d you get upvotes for blatant lying?

[u/[deleted] → u/kraenk12]

Lol no response

[u/Sejanoz → u/kraenk12]

For real, it's insane.

[u/FJLyons → u/And_You_Like_It_Too]

Well that's ridiculous. Reflections are a very taxing system in a game. It's not like mirrors. They have to recreate the full section, with NPC's and mirror their movement in real time. It effectively doubles the resources of the scene or environment. It's not something that's going to be in most games, because it's not something better technology can really fix. The better the graphics, it's still double the resources, and most games run using a fine tooth comb to split the hairs.

[u/Kingrcf3 → u/FJLyons]

This is why part of nvidias next gen graphics cards are so expensive is that they can do the real time ray tracing allowing better reflections among many other things the tech is getting there it’s just still not reasonable

[u/AlanPauly → u/Kingrcf3]

100% true. But i do hope the next PS gen can make it with a built-in VGA that is capable of real time ray tracing

[u/[deleted] → u/AlanPauly]

Not without the PS5 costing 800+

[u/AlanPauly → u/[deleted]]

I would like to pay 800+ for the Pro version of PS5 only

[u/rpgmind → u/AlanPauly]

I would like to toss you into a lake for your statements. And then help you out, and maybe lunch and a movie later?

[u/DudeLongcouch → u/[deleted]]

This is you not understanding how game development works. When a game is in progress, developers throw every affect they can at it to make it as beautiful as they can. They aim for the ideal. Then, when the game is content finished and being scaled for performance, they remove things until they can hit the performance they need; wherever that line is.

It's not a lie, it's a "this is how we hope the final game will look but it will probably change by necessity before we're done." It's a reality of development. Some people need to stop being such whiny, crybaby bitches about it. Don't base your opinion of a final release on a 6 month old trailer. There is no shortage of footage of any given game for you to look at during launch and see what the final product is.

Hey downvoters, try to refute a single thing I said. Try to have an argument instead of just butthurt downvoting and moving on. You can't, because you're being ignorant, whiny morons and you're wrong. When people talk about gamers being gigantic manbabies, this is what they're talking about.

[u/WindiWindi → u/DudeLongcouch]

And people wonder why cyberpunk 2077 was shown behind closed doors and wasn't released publicly if it were not from the overwhelmingly positive reception. I feel so bad that anything they do is combed over with a fine tooth comb it's ridiculous because you aren't going to sit there and just stare at half this stuff. People need to stop with this crap and temper their expectations. It's honestly pretty embarrassing making huge deals around what people really want which is optimizing the game so it can actually run. It happened with God of War and if anyone says that that is an ugly game they're crazy. Sure it doesn't look as nice but that didn't stop it from being one of the best selling games ever for Playstation. Because guess what it's not just about eye candy. The motion capture and performances from the actors. The art direction story and music. So many things AND PEOPLE came together to make it happen and you want to focus on some trees and a deer looking a bit worse when you shove your camera like 2 inches from it? Get over it. Look at all the garbage that is on steam. It takes more than some nice assets to make a good game.

[u/[deleted] → u/DudeLongcouch]

It's kinda like why every single thing thats shown before a game comes out includes a tag saying this is alpha footage and subject to change. It's also pretty funny that people seem to think they went through the trouble of adding real time reflections only for a trailer so they could remove them later on, like it was some diabolical plot to waste a lot of dev time on something no one noticed

[u/a0me → u/[deleted]]

I agree with what you said but we know that the majority of pre-release footage for AAA titles is captured using purpose built vertical slice builds of the game running on hardware that’s more powerful than retail units. It’s just part of game marketing, and it does “waste” a lot of dev time.
The real question is why are so many people still basing their purchase decision on what amount to little more than cleverly crafted ads.

[u/Eddyoshi → u/[deleted]]

Um...you do know that alot of trailers shown at E3 are made specifically just for that E3 even and not representative of the final game. Like Portal 2, and Scalebound, and FF7 Remake, and God of War?

[u/melancious → u/DudeLongcouch]

Please take my upvote. I'm so tired of internet drama.

[u/FJLyons → u/[deleted]]

What makes you think they didn't plan for them to be in the final game and they had to be removed? Nothing, it's pure conjecture.

[u/AmericanXAlpha → u/FJLyons]

You went from saying the reflections were too taxing to be in the game to saying they could still be in the game. What's your point, man? Are they gonna be in the game or not? You can't write them off then turn around and reserve a bit of hope for them to be there. You've gotta make up your mind.

[u/admiralvic → u/AmericanXAlpha]

You went from saying the reflections were too taxing to be in the game to saying they could still be in the game.

I don't really see what is so confusing about the statement.

The whole argument is that they're taxing and were removed for whatever reason. Ganguro Girls then mentioned it shouldn't be in the trailer, a fair point, to which RJLyons noted nothing suggests the plan was to deceive people and it could've been the plan until it wasn't. Like, maybe the sidewalk could only have 15 people with reflections but they could hit 30 without them and decided 30 looked better than 15 with reflections and it changed.

[u/FJLyons → u/AmericanXAlpha]

They're not going to be in the game, hut that doesn't mean they didn't plan on putting them in the game. They probably reached a point where they had to get rid of them for something more important to work.

[u/Secretmapper → u/FJLyons]

Well that's ridiculous. Reflections are a very taxing system in a game. It's not like mirrors.

Actually mirrors are taxing on a game as well. In fact in most games mirrors are actually what you described - they recreate the full section and mirror the movement (i.e. Portal and many others).

[u/FJLyons → u/Secretmapper]

I meant mirrors in real life, they don't reflect like in real life

[u/raise_the_sails → u/FJLyons]

IRL mirrors are taxing as fuck for me personally

[u/And_You_Like_It_Too → u/FJLyons]

I don’t doubt their complexity, and I’m sure the reason they removed them from their launch target was to create smoother, more fluid gameplay. And people will care more about what it feels like to swing from building to building than they will to see their unique Spiderman suit reflected on the glass windows of the buildings as he runs against them or any character movement in any body of water that has a reflective surface.

• Unfortunately, because it was removed the people that are upset about it have a legitimate point that there was a visual downgrade... but it’s extremely minimal in terms of the overall look of the game (and say, the difference between trailer “Watch Dogs” and launch “Watch Dogs”). It’s the reason CD Projekt Red was hesitant to release the gameplay demo of “Cyberpunk 2077”.
  

Regardless, the entire conversation was derailed because people thought other people were up in arms about the movement or reduction in the size of a single puddle, and that story ran in articles which were then posted back to reddit where other people could talk about how ridiculous the first group of people were to be upset about a puddle in the first place. Again, it doesn’t bother me, and I’d be willing to wager that we might see those reflections return (perhaps to a lesser degree of fidelity) in a later patch, if it doesn’t majorly impact the game’s performance. But I’m firmly in the camp of wanting smooth gameplay over stunning reflections.

[u/And_You_Like_It_Too → u/[deleted]]

Hi, /u/I_Am_Gassy — I came across this post when it was brand new and the comment I replied to only had a couple upvotes. Never meant to be the voice of the controversy or represent one side or the other, so I definitely apologize if I’ve misled anyone in any way. My only intention was to clarify that people were actually upset about the supposed removal of reflections as demonstrated in the puddles and not the puddles themselves (which I did better in a lower reply). That allegation was obscured by articles and posts and threads claiming that people were outraged by the movement or diminishment of a single puddle, which of course is ridiculous. I was not, and have never been, part of the group of people complaining about any graphical changes or supposed downgrades, I was just attempting to highlight what the actual complaint involved... and had I any idea that my comment would be upvoted or viewed more than 500 times, I would have either been far more careful in my wording and selection of the gif, or just not made the comment at all.

—————

I’d be happy to edit my post, but I do recommend for anyone reading this to thoroughly read all the replies to it as well. It exemplifies the controversy in that people are claiming things were different either before or after a certain point, but no one is really saying when that point was. And to prove it, they’re sharing gifs and images without that context, so it makes it hard to tell if it’s part of the “before” or “after” group without serious analysis. My inbox is filled with images showing puddles with and without reflections, and even windows with and without reflections.

I had seen a gif of Spiderman running across a glass building in a comment replied to another post about “puddlegate” and it turns out then when you try to search for images about Spiderman and any reflections, windows, or puddles... there’s a lot of stuff out there. After a couple minutes of searching, I chose the gif I did because I was trying to show what it looks like when Spiderman runs along a reflective glass building. As some have pointed out, because it was from an alpha build, it proves there were never any building reflections. One commenter provided this gif to demonstrate that there is a subtle reflection, although I’m not sure how old it is or from what video. And then, in the August 16th “Just the Facts” video, you can see at 0:39, 1:08, and 1:59 that there don’t appear to be reflections. Maybe they’re there, maybe they’re not. Maybe it’s due to the time of day, or the location of the sun, or what side of the building Spiderman was on... who knows.

—————

As for reflections in the puddles, that same video contains the image that you shared that definitely looks like a puddle reflection to me. Other people have claimed that people were seeing shadows rather than reflections. Or that it’s actually an issue with cube maps, or ray tracing, or image/video compression, or time of day, or that I’m a deliberate and blatant liar, a karma whore, intentionally spreading misinformation, a dumbass for pre-ordering, an asshole for not responding (because I went to bed after my comments), and a variety of other fun things. I just want to point out that I think the game looks fantastic, that the controversy is silly, and that I’m excited to play the game. Thank you for being polite about it.

[u/McCHitman → u/And_You_Like_It_Too]

Are you trying to tell me you can’t see your reflection in a window and you still have your preorder? Of all the mechanics in the game that is clearly the one that will make or break this game. It’s going to be there from start to finish, without it, swinging through the city can’t possibky be any fun.

No buy. NO BUY.

[u/s0megu → u/And_You_Like_It_Too]

It says Alpha footage. What presentation is that from? Looked it up and Alpha assets aren't 100%

[u/eamonnanchnoic → u/And_You_Like_It_Too]

Just figured I’d clear up the misinformation a little.

By spreading more misinformation?

I watched the most recent trailer from Gamescom and puddles still have reflections. They're just showing different puddles.

Proof:

Gamescom 2018 Spiderman

[u/[deleted] → u/And_You_Like_It_Too]

Spider-Man, Respect the hyphen asshole. God everyone is so dense. I can't believe they always miss the most important piece of Spider-Man. SMH all of you don't deserve to play Marvel's Spider-Man for the PlayStation 4 video game entertainment system.

[u/And_You_Like_It_Too → u/[deleted]]

Spider-Man, Respect the hyphen asshole.

Oh shit, this is gonna take even more clarifications. See, I had my hyphen asshole removed when I was a kid...

[u/Motherfluff → u/And_You_Like_It_Too]

Wait, what? Where did this come from? All I read up till now was about puddles.

[u/[deleted] → u/Motherfluff]

Why did you think they cared about puddles?

[u/chrisgcc → u/[deleted]]

because thats exactly the type of thing i would expect them to care about

[u/DividendGamer → u/And_You_Like_It_Too]

Except the reflection of all the other stuff isn't really a reflection at all. It's more like a painting of of the building.

[u/Deadended → u/sonofseriousinjury]

We live in a society

[u/societybot → u/Deadended]

BOTTOM TEXT

[u/Son_of_Atreus → u/sonofseriousinjury]

‘Hardcore Gamers’ are fucking idiots.

[u/Why_the_hate_ → u/sonofseriousinjury]

I don’t think it was a big deal but it definitely looked better. The whole scene was shinier and more detailed when you look side by side. I wouldn’t complain though.

[u/Steven2597 → u/sonofseriousinjury]

I remember people trying to attack Watch_Dogs 2 after a comparison screenshot of the E3 Demo and the same mission in the full game. It was slightly different weather so the only difference was the lighting.

[u/stunnerhidalgo → u/sonofseriousinjury]

Also just to clarify, there was no downgrade. Devs moved puddles around thats all. It has been confirmed by the devs.

[u/The_Ticklish_Pickle → u/sonofseriousinjury]

People are fucking retarded

[u/Father_of_the_Bribe → u/sonofseriousinjury]

Boy, I wish people got this upset about shit that actually mattered.

[u/GobBluth19 → u/USAFWRX]

Its a few people on twitter saying graphics changed, and a marketing department using it to pretend its a huge thing to mock to get easy free advertising

[u/SpookyLlama → u/GobBluth19]

There was a huge post about it on /r/gaming

[u/robotnyk → u/USAFWRX]

Some people don't understand how game development works, surely you've heard of that before

[u/NOBLExGAMER → u/USAFWRX]

This what people are up in arms about. There is a very obvious difference between the two photos regardless of the puddles.

This image also came out showing there was less detail in some animations than previously showed, again there is a pretty obvious difference between the two.

Insomniac and it's employees have stated there was no downgrade and that it was just a lighting change and a removal of a puddle.

[u/Mr_Qwerty_Robot → u/NOBLExGAMER]

Looking at your post history is really sad, it's like your dedicated to shitting on this game. You're the type of person these companies are mocking.

[u/NYstate → u/oO_Gero_Oo]

I swear to. It's like Reddit is just waiting on a controversy to strike!

[u/Nicologixs → u/NYstate]

The fact the game is exclusive just made the controversy a lot bigger than it really is. There's a lot of Xbox, Nintendo and PC only gamers that have been waiting for the smallest thing to shit all over the game. Moving closer the release there seems to be somewhat of a strong anti spiderman game going on. Hope reviews are fantastic and kill all doubt.

[u/alee132 → u/Nicologixs]

I don't doubt for a second the reviews will kill all this bullshit nitpicking. Sadly there is always going to be some downgrading as they get further towards the end of development when they start to dial in preformance.

[u/yesahd]

Wait. There’s a controversy surrounding puddles in Spider-Man? Glad this news missed me

[u/NOBLExGAMER → u/yesahd]

This what people are up in arms about. There is a very obvious difference between the two photos regardless of the puddles.

This image also came out showing there was less detail in some animations than previously showed, again there is a pretty obvious difference between the two.

Insomniac and it's employees have stated there was no downgrade and that it was just a lighting change and a removal of a puddle.

[u/jasmeek2001 → u/NOBLExGAMER]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SpidermanPS4/comments/94r21f/the_details_on_the_costume_are_amazing/?utm_source=reddit-android

Here's a screenshot of the game in it's current state, it perfectly showcases the difference lighting can make. There wasn't a downgrade. People are just cherry picking for examples with low light scenes.

[u/[deleted] → u/jasmeek2001]

Walks into dark room

"Man the graphics suck in here"

[u/curious_dead → u/jasmeek2001]

Reminds me of when Dark Souls 2 (maybe 3?) came out, some people playing with super high gamma took vids of an admittedly blander place and claimed graphics were horrible.

[u/Liquid_Tacitus → u/curious_dead]

That was Dark Souls Remastered. Dark Souls 2 had it's own controversy where pitch black areas designed to be navigated with the aid of a torch were completely removed by release.

[u/finalgear14 → u/NOBLExGAMER]

People are trying to boil the difference down to dynamic puddles or a lack of real time reflections, all the while ignoring the fucking generational difference in lighting quality between e3 and release. I saw a joke post on the general gaming sub of those two pictures with the top being rtx on and the bottom being off. And yeah, pretty much. Their e3 footage looks like it uses Ray tracing when compared to release.

[u/alsomdude2 → u/NOBLExGAMER]

The game looks fucking great my god you people are annoying and no wonder game devs hate the community.

[u/DiamondPup → u/alsomdude2]

The game looks fantastic. But pretending there's no difference is just stupid.

The whole problem here isn't the downgrade, the problem is the community manager started replying to trolls saying there was no difference.

[u/Cressio → u/alsomdude2]

I have no horses in this race but that is a drastic downgrade. Like beyond night and day. Why is there such a backlash against people being upset the one time they’re actually right lmao

[u/[deleted] → u/Cressio]

Why? Because fanboys and this culture that thinks devs never lie. Just like when Bungie swore they didn't cut content for Destiny DLC and Kotaku found out it was a lie.

The anti-concern people must be from that RetardEra forum.

[u/yomamaisonfier → u/alsomdude2]

How DARE people be upset that a VIDEO GAME looks different than when it was showcased! Especially after the likes of companies like ubisoft, who are notorious for this kind of behavior.

Jokes aside, the so called "hate" for it is well overestablished. People are not as "up in arms" as some are making it out to be. However, there is very obvious downgrades to the visual fidelity of what they've shown. Sure, it's not Ubisoft levels of fuckery, but it IS there.

[u/kraenk12 → u/NOBLExGAMER]

There are many more scenes which look better than the E3 trailer. I’m sure you’ve seen those as well, right?

[u/maniek1188 → u/kraenk12]

You are more than welcome to provide links confirming what you just wrote.

[u/ThomasdeB1505 → u/maniek1188]

Here you go https://youtu.be/BOLVLSIeRI8 It's a moving trailer comparison so that shows how much better it looks while playing AND there can't be any badly timed, misleading screenshots

[u/TheDanime → u/yesahd]

In the gameplay before release there’s a scene where Spidey overlooks a group of enemies and it looks like it’s rained recently and there’s a couple of puddles around. Someone who’s got an early copy of the game (or the same scene in a newer trailer) shows the scene again but it looks like there’s much less puddles, and the puddles that are there aren’t as fluid looking as the ones in the original trailer (however since there is less puddle the quality of the puddle would be effected) additionally the games use of shadows have changed too to make the game feel more vibrant and so this would also effect how the puddles look.

Long story short. People see less puddles and new shadow effects and assume that the game has been downgraded.

[u/pjb1999 → u/TheDanime]

Long story short gamers are a ridiculous bunch.

[u/UCanJustBuyLabCoats → u/TheDanime]

Not really. Here's the real explanation from higher up in this thread. https://www.reddit.com/r/PS4/comments/9c77hc/video_bioware_makes_fun_of_marvels_spidermans/e58oloq/

[u/[deleted]]

Why - in every little controversy there must always be a "-gate"? It's annoying.

[u/spideyjiri → u/[deleted]]

It's because "Watergate" sounded so good, it doesn't make any sense but that's why.

[u/Dagostar → u/spideyjiri]

Do you mean Watergate-gate?

[u/ihateeverythingandu → u/[deleted]]

There was a controversy in the UK years ago about some entry / security gate that malfunctioned or something and ended up killing a child - I can't remember if it ever was called Gategate

[u/TheNewShadow → u/[deleted]]

It's always about water

[u/yummycoot → u/[deleted]]

ask /r/GateKeepers or /r/gatekeeping

[u/WilanS → u/[deleted]]

Because news reporters have no creativity. They want to communicate to you that they're talking about a controversy so they keep quoting the last big controversy, and they've been doing this since the Watergate scandal. Even if there's people today who don't even know about the original Watergate, nor that it's just the name of a freaking hotel; it's what everyone else is doing, so instead of coming up with a new, original name they all add a -gate and call it a day.

It's not just American press either. In Italy the situation used to be similar, except our catch-all word was -poli, from the Tangentopoli scandal, the city of bribes. Every mayor and minor controversy since then has been something-city, which makes as much sense as -gate. Except in recent years, and here's the kicker, we started using -gate too because it was more international and modern.

I hate it so much. 🙂

[u/cristi1990an]

I think people here don't understand that Bioware isn't making fun of the game in any way, but of the controversy surrounding its "downgrade".

[u/killbot0224 → u/cristi1990an]

You're asking a lot if you want these types to "understand" much of anything...

[u/[deleted]]

I hope this makes all the puddle people feel dumb as fuck. So stupid lmao

[u/[deleted]]

After Andromeda, I don't think Bioware has a right to make fun of anyone's graphics.

[u/QuinnK_5 → u/[deleted]]

You are right, but they weren’t making fun of the graphics. They were making fun of the controversy.

[u/alpacafox → u/[deleted]]

Well they're not making fun of the graphics, they are making fun of the outrage by stating that their graphics will most likely change in parts of the game 98% chance).

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

This team didn’t make Andromeda.

[u/Dallywack3r → u/[deleted]]

REEEE Anddromeda REEEE

[u/[deleted] → u/Dallywack3r]

You wouldnt see this shit in Le Witcherino Trois: Geraldo's Sexy Adventure

[u/CageAndBale → u/[deleted]]

It's not the same bio ware team...-_-

[u/TazerPlace]

Finish the game Bioware.

[u/LordModlyButt]

you really know a controversy has turned to shit when it ends in the word "Gate."

[u/Cetarial]

There shouldn’t even be any -gate drama about this shit.

[u/[deleted]]

I'm going to be blunt. Graphics were down graded. Not by enough to ruin game play but it's noticable and it wasn't just puddles. When they showed this at E3 I knew the PS4 wasn't going to be able to run it. Just like I'm calling with Final Fantasy VII remake. Gamers really shouldn't care about a small down grade in graphics. I'm not even on the Sony band wagon and I can tell this is going to be a very good game.

[u/Okichah → u/[deleted]]

Of course the graphics are downgraded.

When you run an alpha build you get to use a dev computer with the horsepower of God almighty himself just to get the fucking thing to run a non-optimized specialized vertical slice of the game.

Theres Zero chance that version will become the final version. Because thats how development works. You dont know what the final version will be. You cant know.

Its not like the final stages of development are adding levels and adding little details to webshooter effects. No. Its a mad dash for bug fixes and compromises. And one of those compromises is going to be graphic fidelity.

Ask for honesty. Not time travel.

[u/xStaabOnMyKnobx → u/[deleted]]

Wouldn't you say it's more like studios over promise on their trailers with e3? They want movie quality renders of cutscenes and sometimes they hide what's the game and what is cutscene

[u/OscarRoro → u/xStaabOnMyKnobx]

Okay, so the solution will be to not show any gameplay ever again until the game is released, right? They cannot "lieee" to us that way, pretty smart eh.

[u/Eddyoshi → u/[deleted]]

halo 2

Its ironic you mention halo 2 and then say its not false advertising when Halo 2 is a prime example OF fake advertising, since when they first showed off the trailer, there was a bit where someone full on said "This is going to be real gameplay, not any of that pre-render smoke and mirrors stuff"...when in actuality that is EXACTLY what it was, the game wasnt even playable and they were marketing it like that was the final game.

[u/Guyote_ → u/[deleted]]

in no way false advertising

How is it not?

[u/Maximelene → u/Guyote_]

Because it's a work product that is never advertised as being exactly what you will buy at release.

[u/falconbox → u/[deleted]]

EXACTLY. I don't necessarily care that much, since I've seen far worse downgrades (Dark Souls 2 for example), and the gameplay still looks great to me, but people are in denial or something.

Here's a different scene that shows it better IMO. Someone tell me with a straight face that this 2018 scene looks better than what we saw in 2016:

https://gfycat.com/FairWeeklyDodo

[u/[deleted] → u/falconbox]

I'll tell you this with a straight face. The 2018 picture is using a different shader and blurred altitude effects. Probably to cut down in rendering with PS4. That's my take in it any way. Regardless, it will be fine.

[u/falconbox → u/[deleted]]

The 2018 picture is using a different shader and blurred attitude effects. Probably to cut down in rendering with PS4. That's my take in it any way.

All things most likely true. For example you see a lot more detail at a distance in 2016 (the trees, cars, etc) while 2018 uses a depth of field blur to most likely reduce the strain on the hardware.

I know limitations need to be put in place, but that's why I'm a little annoyed in the first place. They showed us stuff 2 years ago that even at the time I thought "no way is the final game going to look like that."

[u/[deleted] → u/falconbox]

The words "honey dicking" come to mind

[u/Casual_ADHD → u/[deleted]]

Wait, so this controversy actually gained momentum? Thought it was a nothing burger

[u/hablagated → u/[deleted]]

The shininess was removed his suit to make it look realistic

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

The fact that people are still calling it downgraded is downright stupid

[u/JonDav80]

lmao. More devs need to take jabs at these buffoons and their desire to whine about every damn thing....

[u/GobBluth19 → u/JonDav80]

You mean devs are pretending a very small amount of complaints are a huge number in order to get tons of articles written about the game for free to get advertising easily

[u/Dallywack3r → u/GobBluth19]

It’s not about fucking puddles. It’s about the constant whirlwind of whiny, petulant, entitled negativity from the entire gaming community on a daily basis.

[u/pjb1999 → u/JonDav80]

I just hope devs start putting text over trailers like CDPR did with Cyberpunk because a lot of gamers are too dense to realize that reveal/early trailers are not EXACT representations of the final game.

[u/CaptainBritish → u/pjb1999]

Gotta' make sure you say it directly in the video as well. However even then I've seen people complaining because the final product will obviously not look like that.

[u/yesahd → u/JonDav80]

Exactly. This is stupid and people need to be clowned for being entitled ass idiots

[u/Tausendsassa]

There is no fucking downgrade. This are pictures taken playing life at the fan Expo and uploaded yesterday:

Look at picture 3 there are your puddles in the same lighting just at a different place in the game as it is now:

http://imgur.com/a/fmlkEO9

The botting, lying and trolling in this thread and Sub in general to influence opinion are just ridiculous.

Edit: Wow and I'm being downvoted for what exactly? For simply posting proof and facts? Not just claiming false bullshit ? Nice !

[u/TasteOfJace]

He's not making fun of it, he's voicing how ridiculous it is that people freak out over such little things.

[u/rbynp01]

Spider-Man will still look great regardless. All you cry babies can keep crying about "downgrades".

[u/TheLastOfKratos]

Atleast Spider-Man's face can't be tired????

[u/zillskillnillfrill]

Next lv. Spot the difference idiocy

[u/LawnShipper]

I can only hope that somewhere, there's a giant meteor with Earth's name on it.

I shall call the meteor, Zamasu.

[u/loizgomes]

BioWare is a joke itself so pretty much is impossible not to laugh AT them.

[u/[deleted]]

I think the emphasis keeps getting put on the puddle to make it look silly to people, when the real problem is that the graphics just plain look worse. No one cares about the damn puddle.

[u/Rocky323 → u/[deleted]]

when the real problem is that the graphics just plain look worse.

Get your eyes checked.

Realize theres different times of day.

Multiple people have debunked the "downgrade" bullshit you are trying to parrot.

[u/Soulrakk → u/[deleted]]

100% This. People and the media are absolutely emphasizing the "puddle" to make it sound and look dumb. The problem wasn't only the puddle and never was only the puddle. The puddle was just part of it. I don't understand how people can't look at the screenshots and see a noticeable difference in quality being downgraded. Everything from textures, to lighting to ambient occlusion. And no one, ever said the game itself would suffer or be bad at all because of it.

[u/[deleted] → u/Soulrakk]

Right. I'm still getting the game. I'm sure it will still be great. I'm just bothered by the fact that the visual quality was better in the gameplay trailer. And I'm someone who is really bad at seeing the difference in visual quality. I can't imagine how bad it must look to someone with better eyes than I have.

[u/Guyote_ → u/[deleted]]

It’s the same thing as the “pink Vader” EA bullshit. They use something silly which obvious isn’t what the complains are about to make those people look silly and ridiculous

[u/LazyCon → u/[deleted]]

Whichever one is the top one looks a million times better.

[u/Guyote_ → u/LazyCon]

That’s the E3 version. Bottom is what we’re getting

[u/falconbox → u/LazyCon]

Top one is 2017.

[u/reclaimer130 → u/LazyCon]

Even with the completely incorrect exterior reflection?

[u/riquezin → u/[deleted]]

The actual graphics looks amazing IMO, there’s more sharp and brightness (that lighting change)

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Don’t know why this isn’t higher up....

[u/Max9419 → u/[deleted]]

i'm confused, did they turn RTX on or off?

[u/Redpeg1 → u/Max9419]

Lmao it’s clearly screen space reflections

[u/AnirudhMenon94]

The game looks incredible.

[u/XJ--0461]

Fuck the "gate" suffix.

[u/christianalinkTvJM]

Good one

[u/[deleted]]

I wonder what percentage of puddlers retreat to fortnite or Minecraft after arguing about the puddle reflections (or any type of reflection) in a super hero game.

[u/[deleted]]

Anyone criticizing the difference in quality between E3 and a final release should read Blood, Sweat, and Pixels. Studios push to release something at E3 that, in some cases, is not close to the final in terms of gameplay or graphics.

[u/YoungTaylor]

I'm just curious are people actually going to play this game and hang on the wall and examine puddles or play the game ?

[u/ZerosMadness]

I bet they feel like idiots since insomniac released new pictures showing upgrades over even the 2017 graphics.

[u/RudeAwakeningLigit]

It's day's like the puddle controversy that make me embarrassed to be a gamer.

[u/Zerocool1000]

Lol nice. Glad we can make light of this already. I think i heard people at the studio joking that we should support it in photo mode somehow lol

[u/yuch1102]

Bioware isn't exactly in the right position to be making jokes right now

[u/[deleted]]

I don't care about graphics being downgraded. The game still looks great. Graphic controversy were always stupid. But the one thing I hate is the developers lying saying the graphics are not downgraded. That is straight lying it is very clear that the graphics have indeed been downgraded. The downgrade isn't a problem by itself, but lying to your consumers about it is a problem

[u/Rocky323 → u/[deleted]]

I don't care about graphics being downgraded.

Good, because they haven't. That's been debunked by multiple people in these comments.

[u/nullCaput → u/[deleted]]

Same boat here, even if Insomniac came out when the game went gold and said "we won't be able to hit the quality that was in the E3 trailer, heres how it looks now. We apologize if you're disappointed, you can cancel your pre-order. But if you don't we promise the game is still going to look great and be a banger!"

Saying that would have snuffed out almost all of this. But instead now we have this little tempest in a teapot because a developer and publisher would rather have it trickle out right before release instead of having the stones or the forethought to address it before it blows up.

[u/dre__ → u/[deleted]]

How do you think it's stupid when you literally agree with it?

here companies are showing a version of games that is better than what the finished product

This is what the controversy is about, not a shitty puddle.

[u/[deleted]]

This whole thing is an embarrassment for the gaming community

[u/redditr3demption]

Good on them. This is becoming ridiculous and it's nice to see people in the industry stick together.

[u/prboi]

I can't believe that was a thing. I swear gamers can be such babies sometimes

[u/killbot0224 → u/prboi]

Sometimes?

There's a dedicated contingent of "fans" who basically hate gaming. They just can't help themselves.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Did they take it out??

[u/HolyMcJustice → u/[deleted]]

Word on the street is they couldn't get the rights to use it, there's a similar looking placeholder building instead.

[u/[deleted] → u/HolyMcJustice]

Dude that is so lame. I never knew you needed rights to put a building in a video game

Edit: Maybe not. Check out this tweet from Imsoniac https://mobile.twitter.com/insomniacgames/status/988474484242825222

[u/established82]

Seriously though, developers should be required to showcase games on CURRENT console systems. They should NOT be allowed to showcase them on their $??,000 developer PC's.

[u/[deleted] → u/established82]

When these games are shown the code and demo are probably held together with gum and duck tape. They have to show these alpha demos on their beefy PC’s because the game just isn’t there yet to run reliably on the target hardware.

[u/DividendGamer]

This is a non issue, god people can be so stupid lol.

[u/Entropian]

I don't know why people are still surprised and upset over downgrades. They are a fact of life. Get used to it. When devs show off a game one or two years before release, what you're seeing is not the actual game. That's just a demo specifically made to look good. The actual game looks like shit because it has yet to come together.

[u/killbot0224 → u/Entropian]

Exactly. They spend a ton of time getting things as good as possible, unsure of exactly how constrained they're going to be.

There's not a lever that just says "GRAFFIX" that you just set to "PS4"

They work to push it to the edge, but then tend to wind up a bit short on resources as the game fills up, gameplay and physics come together, etc, etc, and start needing to get the frame rate to remain steady.

Wouldn't it be strange if they aired intentionally nerfed early footage? That's actually extra work, and just doesn't make any sense.

[u/kkl929]

Bioware is good at making jokes, very few can beat them

Why? because they are a massive fucking joke themselves

[u/Sindowill]

This is amazing. I love bioware