r/PS4 • u/cristi1990an cristi1990anRO • Sep 01 '18

[Video] [Video] BioWare Makes Fun of Marvel's Spider-Man's "PuddleGate" Controversy

https://youtu.be/yQph-_imtDY
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u/sonofseriousinjury Sep 02 '18 edited Sep 02 '18

An old gameplay trailer showed a puddle on the floor. A new trailer showed the puddle was smaller. Some people said Insomniac was downgrading the game just like Watch Dogs and want their heads on spikes.

EDIT: Even if they had to make graphical concessions in order to improve performance/gameplay I think it's funny how many people are vehemently upset by this.

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u/And_You_Like_It_Too Sep 02 '18 edited Sep 03 '18

Supposedly, the original argument wasn’t actually about the puddles — it’s about the (alleged) removal of real-time reflections. Meaning, when Spiderman swings by or runs along a building with reflective/mirrored glass, it will show the reflection of everything except him. They were saying that no character models (including Spiderman) have a reflection in glass windows, puddles, etc. anymore, and that puddle was reduced to minimize how obvious it was that none of the character models were reflecting in the puddle (after that scene previously showed off the reflections in an earlier trailer). People don’t care about puddles, they care about basic reflections. Again, I’m not saying they’re right in saying or believing that, but to not give it that context is as silly as believing that they’re outraged about the removal or reduction of a solitary puddle.

Do I personally care about the controversy? No. Preordered and anxious to play it. Just figured I’d try to clear up the misinformation a little.

—————

Clarifications:

  1. Several people below have pointed out images, gifs, and videos that demonstrate puddle reflections. I don’t know exactly “when” the game was supposedly downgraded, puddles changed, or reflections removed... so it’s hard to know if the images and gifs in comments are from before or after that time. But what matters now is that it definitely appears that they’re in game, so all you puddle-gaters out there, this should put it to rest (I hope). Look through the comments below and be your own judge.
  2. I should have chosen a more recent gif of Spiderman running on a glass building without a reflection; I wasn’t expecting this comment to be so huge. Some have claimed that this gif proves that there were never glass reflections of Spiderman on buildings. Others have claimed that there are minimal reflections (I’m not sure how recent this gif is, or what source it came from). In the August 16th “Just the Facts” video, at 0:39, 1:08, and 1:59 there don’t appear to be obvious reflections, but this could be due to the time of day, the orientation of the sun, which compass direction Spiderman was facing on that building’s surface, etc.
  3. I never intended to be the mouthpiece of this controversy. My intention was just to point out that it was the reflections (or lack thereof), and not the puddles, that people were originally discussing. Then articles, threads, and videos began discussing the puddle outrage without that context. I personally think “puddle-gate” is stupid. I think complaining about reflections is stupid. I think this entire thread is why CD Projekt Red was hesitant to show us “Cyberpunk 2077” gameplay, because it will be analyzed to death and people will be outraged over any graphical changes or alleged downgrades, no matter how minor.
  4. I apologize if I misled, misinformed, or misspoke in any way. I’d have chosen my words more carefully or not commented at all, had I known it would blow up like this.
  5. “Spiderman” looks amazing. That’s what we SHOULD be talking about.

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '18

Uhh that gif is super old though like one of the first footages released after the initial e3 trailer, thats not the controversy were talking about here.

The controversy is about that specific puddle because it was shown in more recent gameplay.

and there is some reflection https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/showynegativecaracal

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '18 edited Nov 25 '18

[deleted]

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u/And_You_Like_It_Too Sep 03 '18

Hi, /u/rag3mac — I edited my comment to reflect some of the responses I received from it. There’s a lengthy clarification there if you’re interested. My intention wasn’t to defend any group claiming there was a visual downgrade or removal of features, I was just trying to clarify that the original conversation (before it was blown out of proportion) involved the reflections, and not the puddles. I wasn’t trying to say they were right or wrong, I was just trying to add context because so many people think there’s outrage over the removal/diminishment of a solitary puddle, which is as silly as the other group.

  • As for the gif I posted, I should have chosen a more recent one — I was looking for a specific one I’d seen in the comments of a thread about puddlegate a day or two ago, but searching this subreddit for “Spiderman” and puddles/reflections/windows will get you all kinds of nonsense. I came across the post when it was brand new, so after spending far more time than I’d planned looking for the most recent example of what it looks like when Spiderman runs along a building without reflection, I chose that one. As you (and another redditor) pointed out, this proves there were never any reflections on glass windows/buildings.

Another redditor provided this gif demonstrating that there are minimal reflections, although I’m not sure how old it is or what it’s from. And then in the August 14th “Just the Facts” video, at 0:39, 1:08, and 1:59... I don’t see any obvious reflections. Maybe that’s due to the time of day, position of the sun, or whether he’s on the north-south-east-west side of the building. I really couldn’t tell you one way or the other. It definitely does look like there are reflections (and not just shadows) in the most recent videos though, so I did my best to point that out in my comment. Again, I wasn’t trying to prove that they didn’t exist, I was just trying to provide context to the conversation that wasn’t there at the time I commented. I think the game looks fantastic though, and that this entire controversy is silly. Had I known my inbox would have been filled with hatred when I woke up, I’d never have replied in the first place. Anyway, I’m really looking forward to playing it. Happy gaming to you.

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u/NOBLExGAMER Sep 02 '18

C'mon man, it's obvious the two pictures I posted are visually distinct and different from one another.

I don't know why people are getting so defensive about this, I'm not saying the game is going to be bad or calling for Insomniac to be crucified but to deny that there is any difference or blame it on "lighting" or "compression" is ridiculous.

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '18 edited Nov 25 '18

[deleted]

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u/NOBLExGAMER Sep 02 '18

Dude just give it a rest.

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u/PraiseTheSun1997 Sep 02 '18

That just looks like two different times of day

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u/atomsk404 Sep 02 '18

Yup, that's exactly it. Look at the buildings shadows, indicating movement of the sun.

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u/googleoblivion Sep 02 '18

2018 has birds, 2018 wins

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u/NOBLExGAMER Sep 02 '18

Pop-in PS2 .PNG Pigeons

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u/GlockWan Sep 02 '18

isn't the focus just different? Usually it's an effect you can turn off in PC games so dunno about the ps4 but clearly in the first gif there's no focus and blur and everything is sharp and the 2nd focuses on spidey

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u/Gaarando Sep 02 '18

Wow. Who knew that time of day changed how a game looks.

People should make Driveclub screenshots of different times of day and troll you because one picture is gonna look better based on your preference even though it's the same game.

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '18

Almost all E3 trailers on run on a high end PC too and not the actual system ... but who am I to split hairs like that?

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u/GlockWan Sep 02 '18

this game isn't on PC tho

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '18

Right. That’s why it’s also important to note that the E3 trailer is being run on a PC.

Most E3 builds are usually run on high end systems similar in specs to a PC if not a PC itself (cough microsoft cough)

That allows them for more visually enticing effects and greater rendering capabilities so they can show the best possible segments. It also helps that they were probably only rendering a small portion of the game so they could crank up a lot of the shit. If you look at the freedom tower gif and swinging animations - Holy shit it’s rendering almost the entire city. It’s kind of nuts how high the view distance is.

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u/GlockWan Sep 02 '18

do they really do that with console exclusives? I know they do will games that are cross platform since you'd want to run it on the best system but do they not use a console for console only games?

I honestly don't know and am interested if there's any info on it. They do have dev versions of consoles

ps4 pro can run games in 4k and shit, consoles aren't THAT far behind if we're talking a sharp but low fps video for a presentation. These games are optimised purely for one console which helps