[Video] BioWare Makes Fun of Marvel's Spider-Man's "PuddleGate" Controversy

[u/cristi1990an]

https://youtu.be/yQph-_imtDY

[u/And_You_Like_It_Too]

Supposedly, the original argument wasn’t actually about the puddles — it’s about the (alleged) removal of real-time reflections. Meaning, when Spiderman swings by or runs along a building with reflective/mirrored glass, it will show the reflection of everything except him. They were saying that no character models (including Spiderman) have a reflection in glass windows, puddles, etc. anymore, and that puddle was reduced to minimize how obvious it was that none of the character models were reflecting in the puddle (after that scene previously showed off the reflections in an earlier trailer). People don’t care about puddles, they care about basic reflections. Again, I’m not saying they’re right in saying or believing that, but to not give it that context is as silly as believing that they’re outraged about the removal or reduction of a solitary puddle.

Do I personally care about the controversy? No. Preordered and anxious to play it. Just figured I’d try to clear up the misinformation a little.

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Clarifications:

1. Several people below have pointed out images, gifs, and videos that demonstrate puddle reflections. I don’t know exactly “when” the game was supposedly downgraded, puddles changed, or reflections removed... so it’s hard to know if the images and gifs in comments are from before or after that time. But what matters now is that it definitely appears that they’re in game, so all you puddle-gaters out there, this should put it to rest (I hope). Look through the comments below and be your own judge.
2. I should have chosen a more recent gif of Spiderman running on a glass building without a reflection; I wasn’t expecting this comment to be so huge. Some have claimed that this gif proves that there were never glass reflections of Spiderman on buildings. Others have claimed that there are minimal reflections (I’m not sure how recent this gif is, or what source it came from). In the August 16th “Just the Facts” video, at 0:39, 1:08, and 1:59 there don’t appear to be obvious reflections, but this could be due to the time of day, the orientation of the sun, which compass direction Spiderman was facing on that building’s surface, etc.
3. I never intended to be the mouthpiece of this controversy. My intention was just to point out that it was the reflections (or lack thereof), and not the puddles, that people were originally discussing. Then articles, threads, and videos began discussing the puddle outrage without that context. I personally think “puddle-gate” is stupid. I think complaining about reflections is stupid. I think this entire thread is why CD Projekt Red was hesitant to show us “Cyberpunk 2077” gameplay, because it will be analyzed to death and people will be outraged over any graphical changes or alleged downgrades, no matter how minor.
4. I apologize if I misled, misinformed, or misspoke in any way. I’d have chosen my words more carefully or not commented at all, had I known it would blow up like this.
5. “Spiderman” looks amazing. That’s what we SHOULD be talking about.

[u/FJLyons → u/And_You_Like_It_Too]

Well that's ridiculous. Reflections are a very taxing system in a game. It's not like mirrors. They have to recreate the full section, with NPC's and mirror their movement in real time. It effectively doubles the resources of the scene or environment. It's not something that's going to be in most games, because it's not something better technology can really fix. The better the graphics, it's still double the resources, and most games run using a fine tooth comb to split the hairs.

[u/And_You_Like_It_Too → u/FJLyons]

I don’t doubt their complexity, and I’m sure the reason they removed them from their launch target was to create smoother, more fluid gameplay. And people will care more about what it feels like to swing from building to building than they will to see their unique Spiderman suit reflected on the glass windows of the buildings as he runs against them or any character movement in any body of water that has a reflective surface.

• Unfortunately, because it was removed the people that are upset about it have a legitimate point that there was a visual downgrade... but it’s extremely minimal in terms of the overall look of the game (and say, the difference between trailer “Watch Dogs” and launch “Watch Dogs”). It’s the reason CD Projekt Red was hesitant to release the gameplay demo of “Cyberpunk 2077”.
  

Regardless, the entire conversation was derailed because people thought other people were up in arms about the movement or reduction in the size of a single puddle, and that story ran in articles which were then posted back to reddit where other people could talk about how ridiculous the first group of people were to be upset about a puddle in the first place. Again, it doesn’t bother me, and I’d be willing to wager that we might see those reflections return (perhaps to a lesser degree of fidelity) in a later patch, if it doesn’t majorly impact the game’s performance. But I’m firmly in the camp of wanting smooth gameplay over stunning reflections.

[u/And_You_Like_It_Too → u/[deleted]]

Hi, /u/I_Am_Gassy — I came across this post when it was brand new and the comment I replied to only had a couple upvotes. Never meant to be the voice of the controversy or represent one side or the other, so I definitely apologize if I’ve misled anyone in any way. My only intention was to clarify that people were actually upset about the supposed removal of reflections as demonstrated in the puddles and not the puddles themselves (which I did better in a lower reply). That allegation was obscured by articles and posts and threads claiming that people were outraged by the movement or diminishment of a single puddle, which of course is ridiculous. I was not, and have never been, part of the group of people complaining about any graphical changes or supposed downgrades, I was just attempting to highlight what the actual complaint involved... and had I any idea that my comment would be upvoted or viewed more than 500 times, I would have either been far more careful in my wording and selection of the gif, or just not made the comment at all.

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I’d be happy to edit my post, but I do recommend for anyone reading this to thoroughly read all the replies to it as well. It exemplifies the controversy in that people are claiming things were different either before or after a certain point, but no one is really saying when that point was. And to prove it, they’re sharing gifs and images without that context, so it makes it hard to tell if it’s part of the “before” or “after” group without serious analysis. My inbox is filled with images showing puddles with and without reflections, and even windows with and without reflections.

I had seen a gif of Spiderman running across a glass building in a comment replied to another post about “puddlegate” and it turns out then when you try to search for images about Spiderman and any reflections, windows, or puddles... there’s a lot of stuff out there. After a couple minutes of searching, I chose the gif I did because I was trying to show what it looks like when Spiderman runs along a reflective glass building. As some have pointed out, because it was from an alpha build, it proves there were never any building reflections. One commenter provided this gif to demonstrate that there is a subtle reflection, although I’m not sure how old it is or from what video. And then, in the August 16th “Just the Facts” video, you can see at 0:39, 1:08, and 1:59 that there don’t appear to be reflections. Maybe they’re there, maybe they’re not. Maybe it’s due to the time of day, or the location of the sun, or what side of the building Spiderman was on... who knows.

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As for reflections in the puddles, that same video contains the image that you shared that definitely looks like a puddle reflection to me. Other people have claimed that people were seeing shadows rather than reflections. Or that it’s actually an issue with cube maps, or ray tracing, or image/video compression, or time of day, or that I’m a deliberate and blatant liar, a karma whore, intentionally spreading misinformation, a dumbass for pre-ordering, an asshole for not responding (because I went to bed after my comments), and a variety of other fun things. I just want to point out that I think the game looks fantastic, that the controversy is silly, and that I’m excited to play the game. Thank you for being polite about it.