r/PS4 • u/cristi1990an cristi1990anRO • Sep 01 '18

[Video] [Video] BioWare Makes Fun of Marvel's Spider-Man's "PuddleGate" Controversy

https://youtu.be/yQph-_imtDY
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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '18

Yeah after GG I'm gonna say it's not exactly accurate to say that the toxic elements of gaming are "a few bad eggs."

in a relative sense. there are how many millions of gamers nowadays? lemme know when GG does anything IRL and not just spam people's twitters or emails.

we should deal with those issues instead of trying to dance around them.

we can deal with the issue while not throwing out the baby with the bathwater. IDK how the above comment is "dealing with the issue" by exagerrating the minority as the majority.

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '18

Uh... you mean like sending death and rape mail to people's houses? Posting peoples' personal info on the web? Spreading lies about people to affect their personal lives? Threatening peoples' families? I wouldn't call any of that just "spamming" peoples' Twitters.

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '18

Yes, all that is online BS not unique to GG in the slightest. Take GG out and it'd be some other hashtag/controversy started by Tumblr or a 4 channer or a Facebook group or whatever. GG (let alone gamers in general) don't have exclusive rights or discovery of these tactics.

It sucks and I condemn it and I'm glad there are organizations out there studying online behavior to better combat this. but it's also not quite on the level of something IRL like a riot, shooting, or RL stalking (I DO count cyberbullying in cases where it's an extension of RL harassment). At the end of the day the vast majority of people can close their screen and not get caught up in that drama by not participating. Whereas they may get caught up on those RL examples by unfortunate circumstance. You simply don't get the virtoil on the level you describe without being an active participant. And I don't mean this to be some semblance of victim blaming. It leads to my next point.

As for usual victims: at the end of the day we (as a society. I'm kinda against it but whatevs) accept that public figures like Celebrities, reporters politician, etc. have to exercise caution on social media when speaking because they will not be sympathized should controversy (and everything you mentioned, outside of perhaps relatives being threatened) arise. Social media is basically another PR arm for them and society has deemed that they are accountable for what they say and do in that space.

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u/bubblegumpandabear Sep 02 '18 edited Sep 02 '18

But most people talk and play videogames online? And yeah, it is pretty unique to GG. You don't see other fandoms flipping the fuck out over tiny things and literally destroying people's lives. The only thing I can think of as an equal is sports fans destroying public property and beating the shit out of each other. It is toxic as fuck, and at least sports have been slowly getting better at improving, and the majority of the fans agree somewhat to the changes. Video game fans resist every single hint of change as if they actually have some sort of power over the companies and the market. News flash, if you stop playing video games, they'll just continue catering to everyone else like they've been trying to forever now. And it will be a lot easier without the hateful basement assholes spreading their edgy 4chan "humor" across social media and into the inboxes of unsuspecting developers.

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '18 edited Sep 02 '18

most people do not in fact talk online. based on that famous pew study from a few years ago, online gamers are only a 3rd of of the population for "frequent players". 60% of these peole (also based on Pew) use voice chat. so, it's ~20% of the population at best. many still seem to prefer non-competitive games, be it single player or "online games" with no competitive component.

You don't see other fandoms flipping the fuck out over tiny things and literally destroying people's lives.

Yeah you do. know quite a few Fandoms whose overzealousness has impacted real people. for a more lighthearted example check out FNAF's Fandom and their "controversies"

Video game fans resist every single hint of change as if they actually have some sort of power over the companies and the market.

there you go over generalizing again. no, most don't. 90% of video game fans aren't even gonna know what GG is, let alone comment about small changes in gameplay. you really gotta stop thinking that everyone's on reddit commenting on games. by the general 90-9-1 rule, they statistically aren't.

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u/bubblegumpandabear Sep 02 '18

FNAF is a video game. And yeah, most don't, but a frightening amount do. You can't deny that with just how many people were engaged in GG. The hundreds of youtube channels and their thousands of subscribers that did video and video after video about Anita Sarkesian is pretty damning.

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '18

FNAF is a video game.

yes with what many thought was a crazed Fandom at its peak of popularity.

You can't deny that with just how many people were engaged in GG.

engaged in GG as in actively did nothing more than talk shit and complain about SJWs on Twitter? sure that's a lot of people. Maybe some people cashed in on selling outrage on YouTube or Twitter from it (Milo Yiannapolus for instance springboarded on that. can't remember the last time peole remember him as an GG advocate. not even GG people). lot of shit slinging but look where we are right now, in a topic related to complaining about a damn puddle.

actively sent out death and rape threats? I wouldnt be surprised if I could count the number of those people in my hands. pretty sure GG didn't enable them either; they would have waited for next week's controversy and jumped on that. unfortunately death threats to public figures is not an unusual occurrence (and lartof why I don't believe the whole "they are accountable for their social media actions" wholesale).

The hundreds of youtube channels and their thousands of subscribers that did video and video after video about Anita Sarkesian is pretty damning.

to be fair she is a rather polarizing figure. I've listened to various media on the subject of diversity and gaming, some from women. it can get unsavory in the comments but it's not like simply being a woman taking about games is enough to get you the ire Sakeesian got. partof it was due to her suspect splicing of scenes out of context and possible plagiarism. OFC no one talks about those because people on both sides focus on the radical ends and the more subtle voices were washed out.

Also note that all many did was make response videos. some peole took it too far there but no one was threatened at the end of the day. this isn't like the harassment she received on Kickstarter over her campaign.

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u/bubblegumpandabear Sep 02 '18

I'm sorry I didn't read the rest because I'm confused. My whole point was that video games have a terrible following and your first example against that point was a video game.

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u/[deleted] Sep 03 '18

what are we even talking about anymore? My whole point was

  1. there are toxic elements in gaming

  2. no they are not the majority. since you mentioned it GG is nowhere near as large a phenomenon as people who know about it think it is

  3. I listed a toxic element in another Fandom to support 2. I could list more but there's no point.

I don't deny that there are toxic elements in gaming. But it seems weird that this part of the thread went around this in some self-hating tone of voice. For some personal experience: I'm a minority and that kind of speech does no good for bolstering morale and shunning stereotypes we face (in my case, no we don't all steal or rape because some high-profile criminal cases include "our people"). I'm glad discussion there is subtle enough to the point where racist assholes who make that comparison are called the fuck out on their BS.

Maybe it's a stretch to expect the same here, but I see the same patterns. we need to disassociate from bad actors, not make them seem like the norm of the community. I want to see games become a respected art form, and as I've seen from some Fandoms, people can put others off of trying out something great (Undertale is Infamous for this). I don't want that applied to gaming in general.

now I have to go because I still have a lot of RL actions to take, tangentially in pursuit of this goal. I don't really expect to convince you, but I hope you understand my POV here. good day.

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u/[deleted] Sep 03 '18

You can't say they are not a majority when, currently, the majority of league of legends players are pissed off because women that are always being harassed by those same players finally have somewhere that they are safe from the sexist comments and remarks that flood the community and the company culture itself. Gaming is toxic, it will continue to be toxic because these assholes know that in real life they won't get consequences from their piece of shit behavior online and in-game.

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u/[deleted] Sep 03 '18

If the majority are pissed off that's likely because they aren't bad actors themselves no? Wouldn't a majority of toxic gamers defend or accept such behavior?

Gaming is toxic, it will continue to be toxic because these assholes know that in real life they won't get consequences from their piece of shit behavior online and in-game.

  1. LOL thankfully isn't all of gaming. That's the whole point I've been trying to contest here. I don't understand how a thread with thr majority of gamers calling out the issue can simultaneously believe the majority are ALSO accepting of it. Maybe a lot (relative to your definition), but certainly not the majority.

  2. Yes, lack of accountability is a big issue. You can't force people to be good, but you can boot them out of the community. This isn't something moderation can't fix. But I'll admit I'm not in tune with LOL enough to really know the nuances of the problem there.

Outside of game matches ... Well yeah the internet as a whole is a whole other problem in and of itself and at a scale where you simply can't have enough moderators to properly engage in resolving issues. Interested in seeing how or if this is a resolved in the future.

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