Overruling captain!

[u/Ok_Assistance69]

Just getting opinions here. Other night we had a well known psych patient who’s not only know to verbally accost medics/hospital staff, but can get aggressive. Delt with her multiple times where our local PD had her cuffed, hands on a taser. On scene for the THIRD time that week same patient, different captain (not mine, was working OT) and I told this captain “we’re going to need PD” Captain replied back “THIS IS NOT A PD ISSUE” very loud and aggressively I might add. I stated “she can get aggressive” he replied back “SHES NOT AGGRESSIVE”and he denied calling PD. Once she was loaded on the stretcher, she started to become verbally hostile, then and only then did the captain call PD. Then I was instructed to go to my patient. She started getting verbally hostile with me. I was told to get in the engine at this point and the other medics would run the call. PD followed the medic unit to our local ER.

Now, we all learned “BSI/scene safety” right? I always thought it was a medics discretion if it came to safety. KC firefighter died over a psychiatric patient after being stabbed by her. Another psych call, patient flew out the back doors and ended up being killed by a semi truck.

Does anyone think this needs to go up the chain? I feel mine AND my crews safety was compromised by a captain with a superiority complex and this captain has been known for his temper. His behavior was unprofessional, unacceptable and unbecoming an officer.

Opinions???

[u/Sudden_Impact7490]

Speaking as someone who deals with psychs on a near daily basis. Law enforcement presence alone can escalate these situations from tense to hostile.

In the hospital anytime someone calls police or security it immediately goes downhill when they show up. If someone calls for them I will intercept and have them wait out of sight.

If you want them nearby - I get it, but keep in mind the effects they have on the situation when dealing with a psych or mental health issue.

[u/laeelm → u/Sudden_Impact7490]

This isn’t a hypothetical pt. This specific pt is known to be ‘hostile’ and ‘aggressive’. The question is about this specific pt. He was correct to get LE involved. In the hospital, you are not going down the road in a small metal box with a violent person by yourself. The hospital is a much more controlled environment than a moving vehicle. It’s easy to get away from a psych pt in the hospital. You just walk out of the room and wait for security. You can’t do that in an ambulance.

I think I would have to take this up the chain. At least to understand how to deal with this situation in the future. Because if a medic wants to call for pd but a supervisor says they’re not needed, is the supervisor now going to tech the call or am I going to have to be scared in the back of the truck by myself? Because I won’t do that. A good supervisor won’t tell you to do anything that they wouldn’t do.

[u/Sudden_Impact7490 → u/laeelm]

The hypothetical is going from verbally aggressive already on a cot to an active shooter.

Im aware of the differences between hospital and an ambulance having done both. The problem here is the armchair quarter backing.

As stated it's OPs call and I'm not going to fault him for making it. I'm just giving an alternative perspective having handled 17+ years of them