r/Paramedics • u/Ok_Assistance69 • Jun 21 '25

US Overruling captain!

Just getting opinions here. Other night we had a well known psych patient who’s not only know to verbally accost medics/hospital staff, but can get aggressive. Delt with her multiple times where our local PD had her cuffed, hands on a taser. On scene for the THIRD time that week same patient, different captain (not mine, was working OT) and I told this captain “we’re going to need PD” Captain replied back “THIS IS NOT A PD ISSUE” very loud and aggressively I might add. I stated “she can get aggressive” he replied back “SHES NOT AGGRESSIVE”and he denied calling PD. Once she was loaded on the stretcher, she started to become verbally hostile, then and only then did the captain call PD. Then I was instructed to go to my patient. She started getting verbally hostile with me. I was told to get in the engine at this point and the other medics would run the call. PD followed the medic unit to our local ER.

Now, we all learned “BSI/scene safety” right? I always thought it was a medics discretion if it came to safety. KC firefighter died over a psychiatric patient after being stabbed by her. Another psych call, patient flew out the back doors and ended up being killed by a semi truck.

Does anyone think this needs to go up the chain? I feel mine AND my crews safety was compromised by a captain with a superiority complex and this captain has been known for his temper. His behavior was unprofessional, unacceptable and unbecoming an officer.

Opinions???

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u/Sudden_Impact7490 RN CFRN CCRN FP-C Jun 21 '25

Sure, but police also aren't trained in mental health. Which is why some places have stopped having them be the initial responder (they tend to shoot/kill these patients demographics)

It's your call. I'm just saying sometimes their presence will escalate violence, not deescalate or prevent it.

On a verbally aggressive person already on a stretcher with plenty of fire/EMS on scene I'm personally not calling. It really depends on the scene, the resources and the overall risk assessment. You have the ability to do far more, safer, for this person than PD can (Ketamine, versed, etc)

Overall, being situationally aware is important but its still a job where you face more risk for injury driving to and from calls than you do interacting with patients.

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u/Hosedragger5 Jun 21 '25

If the choice is between a violent patient getting shot or me going home at the end of my shift, I know what option I’m choosing. I’m not going to be some hero and risk my life for an unstable person.

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u/Sudden_Impact7490 RN CFRN CCRN FP-C Jun 21 '25

We're escalating the call type pretty quickly

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u/Hosedragger5 Jun 21 '25

Yea, well taking it easy didn’t work out for the firefighter in KC.

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u/Sudden_Impact7490 RN CFRN CCRN FP-C Jun 21 '25 edited Jun 21 '25

How would police have changed the outcome of that call? They wouldn't.. they were on scene and it still happened.

Not every mental health call is a pink slip, so police aren't going to search every patient just because - especially in the days when everyone is hyper aware of unlawful search and seizures.

You can ask, but they can lie. How many CCW owners do you think get transported with nobody ever knowing? More than you'd think.

So absolutely maintain situational awareness and be vigilant, but no matter what sometimes flukes will happen. We have to acknowledge that is extremely far from the norm when viewing it from a macro personality.

Again, if you want to call I'm not saying you shouldn't. I would never judge someone for wanting PD on scene. There are times it's more than appropriate, but there are also times it will make everything much worse and I think this is where the Captain in this scenario was coming from.