r/RadicalFeminism • u/DistractedCraftress • 11d ago

Questioning Islam's modesty clothing for women

From what I remember in this sub-reddit there have been some heated posts regarding Islam and modesty clothing (hijab, niqab etc. etc.).

Let me just clear up that I'm not a Muslim and I have no experience with the religion as a whole as I grew up in a mostly Christian country.

However, these questions have been lately on my mind:

  1. Maybe this sounds stupid but do you think that these outfits may have functional and cultural influence other than Islam and modesty? Because it seems like they were always a good protection from the heat and sand such as long robes for men in Arabia and other countries with similar climate (yes I am aware that women's robes were also a thing e.g. in Afghanistan but women were forbidden to wear them) but the burqa for example seems really useful to wear in a desert climate and environment under specific environmental conditions (maybe way more rarely I wouldn't know how useful it would be). Do you think the complete abolition of them is needed? Because it just seems to me like in a perfectly equal society women could reclaim them as something functional and not as a sign of modesty and oppression. I just have been thinking are we talking of the complete abolition of such modesty garments only because of men? If men didn't factor in do you think women wouldn't be wearing them at all?

  2. This was inspired by a reel from a source that I was unable to track that I watched some weeks ago. If I remember correctly it was an outfit used in Latin America by women to fight the colonization. The garment was banned because women were using them to gather information against the oppressors and they couldn't be hold accountable for it since they could never find the culprit. Maybe there's a way they could be used as a means of protecting anonymity and freedom in a world that is becoming more and more all about surveillance against activism. Something similar to modern day full-face masks for women but even better since now there are odds that the eyes and body could play a role for telling people apart.

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u/aliencreative 11d ago
  1. In our ideal radical world- I would imagine we can embrace religion in a human centered way because religion is important for humans. If that’s even possible.

It’s really hard to tell because to me what I see is such radical misogyny in that culture. I don’t think it started that way from what I’ve gathered but in the current world, it would have to take so much for those women to be able to not wear those coverings if they really want to. They didn’t always have to wear them.

Since we are talking about Islamic countries that would imply severe restructuring depending on the country. For females to really be able to choose without repercussion. That’s a loaded question friend 😆 of course here we are talking about the PRESENT TIME Islamic countries that oppress their women.

There’s already a lot of unrest within some of those communities- the women refusing to wear those garments though not all. I believe I saw this in Afghanistan ?? I could be wrong and talking out my ass... However it seems like the great majority is very much into their religion and are of the belief that allah wants this for them, so they wouldn’t do this UNLESS there was such a great amount of upheaval, undoing of that indoctrination and brainwashing - it would have to be monumental for Islamic women en masse to decide not to cover their head. MY OPINION. It would have to be a lot of them deciding this. It would take a long time given the collective trauma those women and their genes have experienced.

I feel bad making these statements as is because there’s just so much religious propaganda in ALL religions and we are also socialized with our own biases. The extent that women in Islam specifically are brainwashed sickens me. I’m mostly talking about the extreme sects but uh- definitely applies to Islam as a whole. I could go on and on but not all women in Islam can make their own choices EVEN if they are “given” the choice, in or outside of the Middle East or Islamic countries. If the choice was genuine I would HOPE they would burn their hijabs but their love and devotion of their religion is astounding even for me. And many more in western or liberated countries still do choose to wear coverings. This question does not have 1 answer. Sorry.

  1. I am very very confused about this outfit. It would help if you attached a picture. Sounds like a face covering but you said it’s an outfit? Was the outfit like a spy espionage outfit that made it seem like any woman who wore it looked the same? I’m just confused. I have no idea what you’re talking about.

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u/DistractedCraftress 11d ago

No no I'm aware that women in these countries and many western ones are pressured and even when they are supposed to have a choice they don't. I'm just trying to ask by looking up to the abolition of these garments are we truly dismantling a wrong system or are we catering to men? Because men are the problem in this situation no? If they didn't exist this wouldn't be a problem. Like think about it if they stopped existing today would the women care about what they are wearing? Yes I get that you are saying that they would be furious and mad initially (and ofc it's so normal) and may burn their hijabs and celebrate their freedom but would it just completely stop existing or would they embrace it in a non misogynist or modest way? And I just think the moment we cater to men we are kind of losing the point... Because no matter what we do men are always gonna try push the modesty ideology. No matter the cloth or religion. That's what I meant initially.

  1. About that outfit. From what I remember it was just a traditional outfit with something like a head covering or like a hood and only one eye was showing. I tried to find it but I couldn't yet.