Any other dual role safety professionals?

[u/WokeUpVinyl]

I just switched jobs and I was an EHS specialist. I was offered a position by my old boss at his new job for continuous improvement and safety. It’s a dual role and I feel like I can’t do either well because it’s hard to keep a focus with a piling action list and what seems to be more continuous improvement focused work. Anyone else have similar experiences?

[u/Txn1327]

Dual roles like you are talking about mean the company doesn’t want to spend money or time on safety. They want you to do 80% in the non-safety role while patting themselves on the back that they still put safety as a priority. Dual roles do not work, but are extremely common sadly

[u/Exciting_Agent3901 → u/Txn1327]

You said it perfectly. I work in construction. I run a framing crew of 4 guys. My company asked me to be the “safety guy” because I have a safety degree. I got that degree in 2003. All I do for safety is send out toolbox talks to supervisors and a job site inspection once a quarter. It’s a joke. I do hope to be able to eventually morph it into a full time position when I don’t want to bang nails any more. It might happen.

[u/OddPressure7593 → u/Txn1327]

As someone who is both head of R&D and the "Safety Officer" for a medical device manufacturing startup....you're 100% correct. The company knows it needs to have a safety program to comply with OSHA, so they slapped it on me. I don't get paid anything more to do it :-/

[u/Machohoncho → u/Txn1327]

We was in a multi role position for a small company of about 10 people. It was easy to manage.

Now that we’ve been bought out by a company of 800 employees, they want me to continue the multi role position. They have one safety manager for all 800.

I want to tell them absolutely not. I’ll split the safety position and do it full time. I’m not interested in being a multi role position for a large company like this.

Should I?

[u/Txn1327 → u/Machohoncho]

Completely up to you. They will likely just find someone else who is willing to do it instead of opening two roles. For them it is all about cost and two salaries are always more expensive than one

[u/coralreefer01]

CI and Safety is too much in my eyes in any average workplace. I guess it could depend on how much support the other positions give to CI and Safety. Support as in, who does the trainings, who documents or monitors certain aspects, is there engineering support for CI?

[u/WokeUpVinyl → u/coralreefer01]

I still have to work on getting buy in from engineering, I regularly identify safety improvements that need engineering support and the conversations kind of loop until they get me to go away lol.

[u/East_Cover9197]

Unless at a smaller, low risk operation, dual roles are nearly always a conflict of interest and rarely allow you to achieve any significant results in either roles. It’s like having two part time roles instead of a full time dedicated role. Safety and CI are very important, and can work a bit in concert, but also both require dedicated full time attention to be done properly.

It’s usually a sign the company is being cheap, and not interested in investing full in one or the other but just “checking the box” they have the roles filled.

Also, from experience, often no one will ever accept that you have dual role responsibilities as an explanation for when things are behind or go wrong. Why? Because other departments rarely, if ever, often get asked to have dual roles besides….Safety! So the real life of working in a dual role is lost entirely on everyone else. I once was a Facilities and EHS manager and this happened frequently. (Side note: stay away from facilities, it’s just a dumping ground for every problem that no one wants to try and solve on their own and there’s zero patience for any of the work to be done - often conflict of interest)

[u/Artistic_Bag_534]

I am the site nurse & safety manager. It’s a lot.

[u/WokeUpVinyl → u/Artistic_Bag_534]

What’s that like?

[u/Slow_to_sink]

Been there and done that. Company likes measurable Metrics on supporting safety, like having a titled employee, but to justify the role that individual often has to perform other duties.

In my work now I run into all sorts of hierarchies and philosophies. It can work, especially depending on the other role/s, but takes a vigilant person and typically results in expedited burnout. More often than not, the other tasks take over and management undermines the safety role actively and openly.

[u/East_Cover9197]

I’m a a senior leadership role and at one of my sites we have a 50-50 CI/Safety person.

They never do anything besides the basic compliance for safety. They always feel pulled in two separate directions all the time. They never have time to stay on top of all the changes, doc updates, program updates, trainings etc. incident rate is up now as well. Most of my site visits are spent getting the site caught up rather than focusing on upcoming initiatives or strategic planning - or the proactive stuff.

When we had a full time EHS person this was never an issue at all, they actual were winning safety performance awards annually from corporate. Not anymore! That former EHS person got promoted (rightfully so) and corporate ops decided to do this hybrid role with the new person. Reap what ya sow…. So they say.

[u/WokeUpVinyl → u/East_Cover9197]

This at least makes me feel better that it’s not just me struggling with it

[u/East_Cover9197 → u/WokeUpVinyl]

The entire set up will likely make you feel like you are set up to struggle or fail, that’s the problem with dual roles.

It’s not you at all, it’s the set up. Unlike most roles, it’s not set up for success or significant contribution, just being able to cover the basics tell higher ups you have a safety and CI guy, even if it’s the same person.

[u/East_Cover9197 → u/WokeUpVinyl]

Also, happy Labor Day 😂

[u/breva]

Safety and continuous improvement can both fall into the category of "nobody really cares about this, but we're required to do both of these things," at least at a shitty company who doesn't support you.

At an older job, safety was responsible for continuous improvement stuff for a short while, but it was really disjointed. It was code for, make sure departments do 5S projects. Which was code for "make sure we throw a fresh coat of paint on our shitty facility because upper management wants to see 5S." Everyone knew this was bullshit and not actually 5S, but we weren't really too bothered to do it all out because there was a new initiative every other fucking day. Also despite knowing these projects were required, management would rather assign people to do things that actually make money because we were short staffed by design.

In theory, the two could go together great. If you have the charisma and support to influence and change a places culture, then you could probably really get some work done. But, both can be such a black hole and can lead one of those being neglected. Then you end up with two programs that suck, or one program that's alright and another that's totally in the gutter.

I'd never want a role like that, but depending where the companies priorities are and how developed each program already is, it might not be the end of the world.

[u/mcgyver229]

if your responsibilities become too much will you be able to hire a direct report? will you get a nice raise? salary or hourly?

I used to run waste water treatment and do safety which led to me having people working for me. I left that job due to my boss being a jerk but now I just do Safety at a large company.

[u/Cowlitzking]

I have been safety manager, marriage councilor, payroll, HR, garbage patrol, security officer, Porto potty manager, drywall patcher, parking enforcement, etc. if no one has died on your project/job, leadership thinks you have the bandwidth to do other shit. Safety is a strange career. More feathers in your cap in my opinion. People like when you say yeah I can do that. But be careful and know your priorities.

[u/WokeUpVinyl → u/Cowlitzking]

Yeah I totally get the wearing many hats as a safety manager, but since CI is defined it feels like there’s a lot more weight to it

[u/soul_motor]

If you have a team, it can work. Often your "safety" problems are really production issues. If you can get your workers to follow their training, they'll make a good quality product in efficient time, and safety will follow. If you don't have a team (or production support), you'll just be stressed out.

[u/Glen_Livet]

I'm the sole safety manager at a small public transit organization. I'm also our in-house CDL examiner and am expected to help cover open driving shifts when we're short staffed. I can relate to your piling action list. My plate is continuously overflowing. But I'm used to it at this point and just take things one step at a time. I prioritize the most important things and work on those while lower-priority tasks fall aside.

But it's not just me, pretty much all senior positions at our organization are in a similar boat. We need more resources, but the public doesn't want to spend more money (who does, right?). So we do what we can with what we have.

If you want my advice, keep track of everything you do at work and then take a few minutes to summarize it at the end of each month. When you're constantly behind, it can feel like you're not making any headway. It can get frustrating and make you feel useless. But if you keep track of what you do, you can look back on that monthly summary and see all the things you have done. It really helps.

[u/Consistent-Way-7567]

I work in aviation I do 23 roles (kidding of course but I do a lot) and continous improvement is one of them. When safety issues come up thats my priority. I think as long as that's the understanding with your boss then you're good. Its all about expectations. 

[u/eftresq]

I see how Quality and HSE go together, but I would never want to combine those two jobs together.  Quality is a whole other monster. Been there and done that

[u/politicssuk]

With you. Training and Compliance manager, safety falls under the latter and never seems to get enough of my attention