r/ShadowSlave • u/GoodFrequent9686 • 2d ago
Discussion What does this quote mean to you? Spoiler
So I was rereading the Cassie reveal during the third nightmare and came across the quote from Cassie
"But... I hope that you make a different choice. That you will stay with us, despite everything. Nephis, I, and the others... are we so terrible? Is it really that unbearable, to share a bond, if it's based on trust? I think you know by now that it's not. What is unbearable is not having been given a choice about forming that bond, and now, even though the connection between you and her will remain the same... it will be there because you have chosen for it to exist. So... you decide. That right is yours, again."
Does this mean that she would have been ok/happier if Sunny had chosen to stay with everyone and not become a weapon of fate? If she was trying to make him choose to be free why would she even say this?
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u/Usual-Photograph7923 2d ago
She planned all this for Sunny to atone for telling Neph his true name back in the FS which led to him being her slave. So she did it for him, but she still wants him to choose them over being fateless.
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u/Such-Bus1302 2d ago edited 2d ago
Its funny how you and I have the opposite interpretations. That quote made me think she was manipulating him into picking fateless by not giving him the full picture because she did not explain the consequences and how everyone would forget him. She wanted to break fate. And the fact that she set a note for herself to meet sunny in volume 8 only convinced me of this. But regardless of which of our interpretations are actually correct, I do not dislike her for her actions.
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u/Usual-Photograph7923 2d ago
I can def see that, but also I think Sunny is estimated that she didn’t actually know exactly what would happen, but more so that she left herself that note in case since she just knew something would happen since she couldn’t see the future past that point
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u/casper_07 Sunny's Cohort 1d ago
Well, the whole point of the letter scene was that sunny realized that she did know.. like it’s not even hidden, sunny figured she straight up knew if she sent herself a letter. Maybe not the specifics but enough that she is aware she might not remember him
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u/Usual-Photograph7923 1d ago
Yes that’s what I mean. But Sunny guesses that one of the possibilities is that she knew something would happen because she couldn’t see the future beyond the third nightmare
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u/casper_07 Sunny's Cohort 1d ago
He knew lol, it was a possibility the entire time but knowing that she sent herself a letter confirmed it for sunny. That’s why he had a reaction, albeit way too muted, the 2 years of crashing out took a toll on him
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u/Usual-Photograph7923 1d ago
What I mean is Cassie wasn’t certain what would happen when she first gave him the choice, it’s just that she couldn’t see farther in the future than the third nightmare, so she sent the letter to herself in the possibility she wouldn’t remember
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u/casper_07 Sunny's Cohort 1d ago
And that’s exactly what it means by she knew? The possibility alone should be enough to be passed down, especially when sunny directly inquired along those lines. There’s no uncertainty when she knew enough to send herself a letter because she doesn’t trust her memory, which I’ll have to remind u is literally her specialty
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u/Usual-Photograph7923 1d ago
That’s totally fair, just meant that I don’t think it was malicious or manipulative, just a bad/wrong choice from her
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u/casper_07 Sunny's Cohort 1d ago
It’s ok to disagree man, it is what it is
My mind isn’t gonna change just because u rephrased it a few times💀
I do think it’s not malicious but it’s hella manipulative
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u/South-Mountain-4 Cassie's Cohort 1d ago
And the fact that she set a note for herself to meet sunny in volume 8 only convinced me of this
God how many times have i seen this being used as an argument to say that Cassie wanted Sunny to be fateless?
Cassie has explained before that if you have prepared enough, even those outside your plan can look like you've also planned/accounted for it.
There are only two outcomes. Either Sunny becomes fateless or not. In this case she could be prepared for either outcomes. She prepared to have that note in case Sunny did choose to be fateless. If he stayed with her she could just not do that? Like cancel it?
Like is plan A and plan B that hard to understand??? Can Cassie not have prepared for multiple outcomes and even outcomes she didn't expect to happen??
contingency. contingent plans. idk am i speaking english
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u/Such-Bus1302 1d ago edited 1d ago
And that is just your interpretation mate it is not canon. There is no explicit dialogue from the book confirming in no uncertain terms that cassie did not know. The book only gives us this dialogue, lets us know that cassie left a letter to herself in the future and lets us draw our own conclusions.
This is written ambiguously. People can interpret it however they want. I choose to interpret it differently from you and unless there is confirmation in the novel neither of us can be certain what the real answer is. I choose to interpret it as Cassie knowing exactly what the consequences would be and deliberately giving sunny incomplete information by omitting out the consequences in full. If you dont agree thats fine we can both disagree with each other and move on with our lives.
With my earlier comment I was not trying to convince you or anyone else that my view is correct... I was just making an observation towards the person I replied to that its funny how our interpretations can be so different. And you are not going to convince me that your view is correct either. So if you are looking to argue about this then let's not waste each others time.
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u/Linedus 1d ago
If she wanted Sunny to stay why didn't she tell him that everyone would forget him? Even if she belived he would leave anyway there is no reason not to tell him the whole truth. The only reason not to tell him would be to get him to leave. She talks about giving him back his freedom to choose while manipulating him.
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u/WeeaboosDogma Extraordinary Rock's Cohort 1d ago
I would argue, telling him the true consequences of his actions defeats the meaning behind the question. Why should negative consequences be the determining factor to you not abandoning your friends? Remember he did this over the final fight with the BBE, he abandoned his friends to go against fate.
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u/Such-Bus1302 1d ago
Why should negative consequences be the determining factor to you not abandoning
It is not about negative consequences determining a decision. But rather giving all the information you can so you can make a more informed decision.
I think that sunny would have made the same choice even if he knew. But I also think that if Cassie knew of the consequences and was really sincere about it, she would have given sunny all the information she possibly could so he can make the choice by himself.
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u/GoodFrequent9686 2d ago
So she wasn’t trying to manipulate him? Or was her bond with him too important or smth?
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u/Usual-Photograph7923 2d ago
I mean we know Cassie had an idea what would happen if he got rid of his fate, since she told her future self to wish him a happy birthday after the fact. So she wanted to give him his choice back that she stole back in FS, but that doesn’t mean she wanted him to be fateless. She just wanted to give him the power to choose since she felt awful for forcing the bond on him, but she still hoped he would choose not to get rid of it
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u/BigimeJones Mordret's Cohort 2d ago
She wanted both. A weapon against Fate and her dear friend. Unfortunately, she couldn't have both so she gave Sunny the choice, although she absolutely knew what he would choose to do. At the very least, Sunny was responsible for his own choice this time, so he couldn't hold it against her no matter what he went with (but she knew very well that he'd abandon his Fate, even if only temporarily)
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u/WayNo2898 2d ago
My personal head Canon.
Is that her manipulation and planning against fate was a separate matter from him being fateless .
Like she did all she did trying to defy fate before she had any idea about the fateless part .
And her two goals just so happens to be related to that choice.
Doesn't mean she has to like it though.
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u/GoodFrequent9686 2d ago
I’m so confused 😭
Like on one hand it seems that Cassie wants Sunny to stay with everyone making her years of work be for nothing but on the other hand it seems like she just wants to defy fate.
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u/Not_Ahvin 2d ago
The future she saw if fate was not broken was horrifying enough that she needed to break fate so that everyone she cares about has a chance. Remember that oacles can't see anything past Sunny becoming fateless so she wouldn't know exactly what it entails.
Cassie, as a person, considers Sunny the most important person to herself, which is why her parents even mentioned that she never stopped talking about him to them. She wants her best friend to be there for her.
At the same time she wants to atone by giving Sunny his choice back to him. She could have given the chance to be fateless to anyone as she planned everything leading up to that point but chose Sunny as that was the only way she could apologise.
So you have multiple motivations, Cassie wanting Sunny to stay because she cares about him and Cassie wanting Sunny to go to make sure that they don't die horrifying deaths, with her caring about Sunny enough that she considers him staying with them and them all dying to be her preferred option with the apology being giving him the choice over his own fate again.
Like a lot of things in this novel, it's a beautifully complex narrative
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u/CherMiTTT Cassie's Cohort 2d ago
This was asked in discord in slightly different words. Something like "If Cassie herself was to choose between giving Sunny a choice and making him a weapon against fate, what would she choose?" G3 answered that she would have given Sunny the choice.
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u/FellaPlayz Shadow Clan 2d ago
Cassie did not do it to atkne, I'll tell you that All she wanted was a weapon against fate, else she's have told sunny everything to make a level headed choice. Bust she wanted sunny to become fateless. To become free of her aspects burden.
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u/Funny_Stuff_6024 Rain's Cohort 1d ago
She knew what would happen. She wanted him to stay with them.
Saying most of this wouldn’t make sense if she didn’t want him to stay with them. She describes the choice as leaving them. If she didn’t care or wanted him to be fateless, it wouldn’t make sense because she already knew what he’d choose. She could just say nothing. He’d still pick fateless.
She doesn’t give details of fatelessness because that would invalidate the idea of it being a choice. But she alludes to it. Telling him the future here would be manipulating him to not do it or telling him what he chose. She already somewhat tries to guilt trip him into not choosing it.
When you think about it, she doesn’t tell him what would happen if he stayed. She didn’t know because it wouldn’t happen. Telling him any more would just be telling him the choice he picked, defeating the point of it being a choice
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u/Careful_Lock_9625 1d ago
I see it she wanted to break fate but didn't want sunny to lose his in the process. But sadly in order to break fate she needed someone who was willing to do such. Only for her wish to break fate coincided with her wish to free sunny, sadly one of them had to give
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u/Majestic_Guide_1697 Nightwalker 1d ago edited 1d ago
We have to remember that cassie is a good actor whatever she does or say are you be taken by a grain of salt .like she saw understood or interpreted what her plans for making a weapon against fate and what the cost of freedom will be for sunny and how it will affect those around him or her can't be sure since we don't know how such thing happened and what her thoughts were.
Then she prepared a solution to help herself solve whatever would happen after the fateless event and that all be4 the 3rd nm happened like if she really cared wouldn't it have made sense to also write or prepare something close to a letter to the person her plan would affect and was at the centre of it all but no she didn't.
So she plays her role well till the speech moment cassie knew what type of choices sunny would make and what type of person he is.the speech was a role to ensure the naive emotional fool doesn't decide to fully cut ties with them after he gains his freedom and whatever consequences he suffers for said freedom.
Her appearance infront of sunny was to make sure he never forgot those ties to them and her and the naive fool did exactly what she wanted she attained the weapon and his still accompanying them .
Maybe my view will point will change if g3 decides to give us what happened with the letter thing how she felt writing it such stuff but until then that seer ain't to be trusted ,I wouldn't be surprised if it's revealed that she retained her memories at some point and just continued playing her role
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u/Aggravating_Cupcake8 1d ago
I think Cassie saw two distinct possibilities. 1. Where sunny chooses to stay with the group, they have a great life but inevitably all die in some sort of major event. 2. Sunny decides to break fate and her power doesn’t show much other than not knowing sunny even existed and maybe just enough to know they have a chance at surviving whatever event has been haunting her.
I think Cassie has felt immense guilt for telling Nephis Sunny’s true name and after struggling for years with the future she saw I feel like Cassie has come to terms with it enough to allow sunny the freedom to choose. She made one choice for him that had a massive impact on his life, imagine if she did that twice? I’m almost certain Sunny would kill her at that point, he’s killed people in the past for less. In the end I feel like she thought this is the best plan to save everyone she care’s about but sunny has to do his part willingly.
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u/Dj4m1234 Cassie's Cohort 1d ago
That’s how I’ve always interpreted it, I’m certain that she wanted Sunny to stay with them and not lose his fate. She manipulated everything just so Sunny could have the option to get rid of his shadow bond after all. Condemning your friend and the person who has saved your life multiple times to be forgotten by the world is pretty cruel too. This quote also makes it seem like she did know that Sunny would be forgotten if he did decide to chose to lose his fate and his shadow bond with nephis. If she did know what would happen, then she should’ve warned him of the consequences at least. However I still believe that sunny would have chosen to lose his fate even if he knew of the consequences because it was what was holding him back from having a real relationship with nephis, and he also hated the fact that fate dictated his entire life. In the end it was still a good thing that he lost his fate because the forgotten god probably would’ve awoken by now and destroyed reality.
P.s. also someone said that Cassie couldn’t see beyond the third nightmare so who knows… maybe the note was literally just a reminder to say happy birthday lmao
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u/chabri2000 Neph's Cohort 1d ago
All part of the act. She needed him to become a weapon against fate. If she really wanted him to stay, she would have told him of the consequences (which her letter proved she knew even before the battle of the skull).
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u/Immortal_Sovereign Sunny's Cohort 2d ago
Imagine getting the only thing you've ever seen as the most important getting taken away and then see your slavery tryna Stockholm Syndrome you js cause' she wanted to clear out her self centred belief of guilt and also try to get you to become and even more lucrative thing js so your slaver could get a tool for her goals
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u/GoodFrequent9686 2d ago
So she was tryna manipulate him again?
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u/Immortal_Sovereign Sunny's Cohort 2d ago
Honestly yeah, whether it was explicitly and consciously done or js sub concious shit idk but in the end it was manipulative
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