r/StrangeNewWorlds • u/whatismydesignation • 13d ago
Theory Did they just imply that Romulans are descendants of...
Augmented Vulcans…?
In the new episode, Pike, Uhura, Chapel, and La’an Noonien-Singh all undergo genetic modification to temporarily become Vulcan. Pike, Uhura, and Chapel, come out Vulcan. But that’s not exactly what happens to La’an. She comes out Romulan. That’s very heavily implied.
While the plot point is pretty large for the episode, they spent no time on the broader implications for the entire universe. La’an’s lineage carries Khan’s augment DNA, and the fact that this process pushes her toward Romulan physiology, instead of Vulcan, suggests something we’ve never been led believe before: Romulans might actually be descendants of augmented Vulcans.
If that’s the implication, it explains a lot, like why they’ve always been more secretive and insular than Vulcans, why their physiology differs just enough to stand out, and maybe even why Starfleet’s obsession with banning augmentation runs so deep. It would tie together the Vulcan/Romulan schism, Khan’s legacy, and a century of Federation policy in one subtle plot point.
It could just be a throwaway detail… but it really doesn’t feel like one. Especially considering the depth we’ve gone in to with Una’s augmentation. Do you think this is deliberate? If it is, it certainly recontextualizes everything we thought we knew about Romulan origins.
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u/Countcamels 13d ago
La'an was a descendant of Khan and had augmented genes. Her negative augment traits like aggression and lack of conscience surfaced. Her gorn trauma probably kicked it all up a notch too. Maybe that's why Vulcan La'an had more similarities with Romulans.
But- It was hinted that Romulans may have a streak of augmented genes too. It was left ambiguous by the writers unless I missed a call back.
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u/whatismydesignation 13d ago
That’s what I thought! We could be wrong, but I’d definitely enjoy seeing if they bring the point up again elsewhere Edit: typo
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u/Wildtalents333 13d ago
If they had augmented genes then A)it happened after they left so it would be relevant to La’an or B)it happened prior to leaving Vulcan so Vulcans have argument genes as well.
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u/Remote_Literature_23 13d ago edited 13d ago
That was a really nasty bit of biological determinism they threw at us. "Aggressive by nature", "genetically bad" - I am still in shock they wrote this, table read this, filmed this and not a single soul spoke up to say that perhaps this is a bad idea. Alongside the other casual racism regarding vulcans, this is all incredibly problematic and I don't know what they were thinking.
The only way to play this well would be as a setup for the future exploring the federation's negative biases with Spock as the one holding these problematic views similar to when DS9 tackled the topic with Bashir. Except they already did that with Una and Spock isn't supposed to be one of those people.
So, while I hope there will be fallout, most likely this episode is just problematic and will likely be swept under the rug. It doesn't sit right.
On a side note, it would be a great reason for La'an to dump Spock. Because who would voluntarily stay with a guy who called you genetically aggressive
Imo they really REALLY didn't think this through and nobody was there to QC this script for some reason
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u/Flammablegelatin 13d ago
But aggression can be inherited genetically? It's science, not racism. Look at Pitbulls. Yes, environment is a factor, but Pitbulls are genetically predisposed to be aggressive towards other dogs.
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u/Remote_Literature_23 13d ago
Oh that's not... that's not true, and if you did research outside of anecdotes on reddit, you'd know that. And also, we aren't gonna start with this in a ST sub. Pat Stew would be so disappointed in you.
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u/MyerSuperfoods 13d ago
I think the choices were made to show just how racist, xenophobic and hateful Vulcans were before they had to learn their manners when dealing with a federation of planets and all of the worlds within.
Enterprise explores early Vulcans and those less desirable traits. They were not nice people and they very outwardly looked down on anyone who wasn't them.
I always saw it as Enterprise (and this episode) forcing us to re-examine the Vulcans and perhaps knock them down a few pegs in the eyes of fans, which is still badly needed IMO.
Imperfect Vulcans are far, far better than boring, perfect Vulcans.
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u/Remote_Literature_23 13d ago
That would have been fine. But what isn't fine is calling a specific person genetically aggressive.
You can also explore another culture's cultural and/or historical aggressive leaning without implying its genetic - and yes they handwaved that one a little bit by claiming it's Spock's perception, but that wasn't a sufficient part of the plot to make it better.
The issue is presenting these traits as genetic rather than cultural or nurtured.
Hope it makes more sense now
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u/MyerSuperfoods 13d ago
I get your point exactly, but this seems more of a personal trigger than a legit plot complaint.
Vulcans WERE racist. Like, super-racist. Think of the worst example of a racist human that you can imagine, and then go somewhere beyond that. Vulcans were that, until they realized it was no longer logical to be that way...at least outwardly. There are still plenty of xenophobic Vulcans out there.
I see it as a celebration of Vulcan progress. They had a blind spot in their culture when viewed through the lens of a wider galaxy. Once this was pointed out, they made an effort to change and adapt.
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u/Remote_Literature_23 13d ago
Okay? I agree? Where did I say otherwise?
I don't think people are reading my comment 😅
One more time: the problem is calling the aggression genetic rather than cultural
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u/zero0n3 12d ago
How do you know in universe it’s not genetic as well?
It’s always been left ambiguous, and this very discussion is asking if the show just made it more murky - insinuating that romulans and the mindset that they are genetically different and agressive is true from a genetic standpoint (since Laan got the romulan mindset - possibly due to khan and gorn genetic DNA.)
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u/MyerSuperfoods 13d ago
Oh my sweet summer child... behavioral genetics is a thing. And in this case, her DNA has been augmented via her ancestor Khan, a genetically engineered super human who was bred for violent conflict. That part of her was passed down to her as base code.
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u/Remote_Literature_23 12d ago edited 12d ago
Right, it feels like you're intentionally trying to be a jerk as well as operating under a common misconception about behavioural genetics AS WELL AS unaware of common criticisms of behavioural genetics, so I will end the conversation here. Have a lovely day!
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u/200brews2009 12d ago
Is it so hard to think that, in a universe with omnipotent beings and shape shifting aliens who defy the laws of physics, it would be so hard for someone to genetically mess with a persons brain chemistry to make them predisposed to sociopathic tendencies to make them the ideal conqueror and that those tendencies are an aggressively dominant trait passed down generation after generation? I’m not a scientist or even casually interested in any of this but it doesn’t matter if it clashes with our current understanding of genetics, and it shouldn’t offend anyone since this La’an isn’t a normal human but partially genetically engineered.
Even then, it really shouldn’t matter since that’s not what this story wants to interrogate. It doesn’t want to interrogate anything, they hand wave the how of it all, all the personal reflection is done off screen, they just want us to relax and enjoy the jokey episode. Now, that’s not how traditional trek episodes work but this just isn’t a traditional episode.
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u/Remote_Literature_23 12d ago
Idk if people are deliberately missing the point but I feel tired of repeating it 💀 No, not that hard to imagine. Not my point whatsoever.
The point is that its problematic messaging for a TV show (specifically, a progressive one like ST) in 2025 - particularly when the people being labelled aggressive are POC. Particularly with everything else going on atm. Jfc.
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u/200brews2009 11d ago
I think a lot of us just aren’t seeing what you’re seeing here. You’re right, we are seeing in the real world just how bigoted we still are and that’s a terrible thing that shouldn’t be celebrated or even used humorously. Thats just not what they are doing here. If they were saying La’an has an innate irresistible genetic desire for aggression because she’s Asian then that would be a problem. Thats not what they’re doing. They are saying she is this unique case of someone who has inherited these traits because an ancestor of hers was specifically altered to be the best, most successful conqueror humanity has ever witnessed, and on top of that she took a medical treatment that further fundamentally altered her genes and her brain chemistry with that of a whole different species and the interaction of those two unique to her, unnatural processes effected her in this specific way.
But even if we say Star Trek was specifically being regressive and saying that all genetically altered people are aggressive by nature, well La’an is proof that nurture wins over nature because she was able to whatever inherited traits into being an extremely capable and competent head of security for the flagship of the federation and not an aggressive dictator or murderer.
There’s just no maliciousness here, no indictment on any race or sex, they aren’t saying shes a danger and should lose her position in starfleet because she can’t control her genetically enhanced rage. In fact everyone mentioned this is not how she normally acts, that her actions in this specific instance were a side effect of two different genetic modifications.
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u/QuiJon70 13d ago
Pike is the only officer to have met romulans. In tos it's made clear that no one, even the Vulcan know romulans are a off shoot of Vulcan.
The augment fear is because of the wars not secret knowledge of super vulcans.
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u/ErstwhileAdranos 13d ago
OP, you’ve gone full r/restofthefuckingowl with your logic here 😂
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u/whatismydesignation 13d ago
LMFAO! I’ve never heard of this sub but I’m dying 😂 Please forgive my transgressions, and thank you for sharing this gold with me 🙏🏼
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u/ErstwhileAdranos 13d ago
I’m just playing. It’s a fun theory. I don’t agree with it, because I’d like to think the split was ideological and philosophical.
If genetic augmentation occurred, there’s no evidence that said augmentations resulted in any substantive physical or intellectual benefits.
This isn’t proof against your theory as they could have quickly abandoned their program, but it’s still a fair argument against it, in lieu of any definitive evidence.
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u/whatismydesignation 13d ago
Yeah, after spending some more time thinking about the whole ideology of Surak, it’s definitely more that La’an just leans more Romulan herself, than that her augmentation is Romulan. But like you said, I think it’s a fun theory, lol
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u/MousePOW 13d ago
This is old, Star Trek: The Original Series – “Balance of Terror” (Season 1, Episode 14), Star Trek: The Next Generation – “Unification I & II” (Season 5, Episodes 7 & 8), and Star Trek: Discovery – “Unification III” (Season 3, Episode 7).
Spock suggests that Romulans may be an offshoot of ancient Vulcans who rejected Surak’s teachings of logic and left Vulcan during a violent period in its history
He confirms that Romulans are descendants of Vulcans and shares his belief that their cultures can be reconciled. This arc is central to the idea that they are “two branches of the same tree
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u/ripsa 9d ago
Agreed. OP's point is this episode implies the split wasn't just ideological?
The proto-Romulans had augmented genetics, partly responsible for their and their descendents behaviour according to the theory.
Which doesn't contradict anything in existing canon and is plausible given what we saw of Khan and his followers?
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u/CalicoValkyrie 13d ago
That was my first thought, but there's also an implication that La'an's trauma caused it. Which can mean the Romulans are the way they are due to extreme, generational trauma driving them to want to control everything.
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u/MonsterkillWow 13d ago
I dislike the reductiveness of the races in Star Trek. TNG did a better job illustrating many characters that violated the stereotypes. The stereotype that Romulans are all out of control emotional and violent is messed up. They just are not as regulated as Vulcans. There are good Romulans and evil Vulcans. They are not uniformly one way or another. La'an would have been affected by her personal trauma and other issues.
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u/ticonderoge 13d ago
the episode didn't actually say she went Romulan, that's just people here having fun extrapolating and theorising.
the episode did say she went that way because of her personal issues.
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u/Krennson 13d ago edited 13d ago
There have been some theories that Romulans have had at least some minor gene mods or gene drift compared to Vulcans, but I don't think that was what that line was about.
The point was that even if your mind is trained to think in an orderly, rigorous, disciplined, and 'logical' manner, you still have to choose where to aim your brain, and you still have to choose what your ground rules and ground assumptions are.
La'an was always mildly paranoid, overly aggressive, willing to do whatever it took to harm clear enemies, obsessed with the Gorn, living with a tragic past, and a professional tactical/security officer who took no nonsense from others.
Take that brain and make it brilliant, hyper-active, extremely disciplined, possibly ADDITIONALLY aggressive because natural vulcans actually do have a higher starting baseline of aggression than humans, when they're not following the teachings of Surak, and then make sure that La'an's mind DIDN'T get a copy of the teachings of Surak, and bob's your uncle... She's now obsessed with militarism and Machiavellian schemes.
Romulans are just the living proof that Vulcans CAN think like that. The really scary part is that, Pre-Surak, most Vulcans actually DID think more like one those four humans with vulcan brains than like most vulcans we know in the present.
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u/khaosworks 13d ago edited 13d ago
The more common fan theory is the opposite - that the Time of Awakening was Vulcan's version of the Eugenics Wars, but the Augments won, driving the non-Augmented Vulcans off-world to become the Romulans. That explains the genetic differences and the presence of psi powers and apparently greater intelligence of the Vulcans that remained.
That aside, my own idea about what drove Vulcans and Romulans apart was their different approaches to the essential problem: how to deal with natural Vulcan aggression?
Surak's Vulcans turned to internal controls - meditation, introspection, denial of self, a rigid system of logic, directing aggression towards scientific and cultural endeavors aided by the increased objectivity that denying emotion confers, instead of against others. Essentially, they threw out the baby of all emotion with the bath water of aggression.
The Romulans decided on external controls - a rigidly structured surveillance society, country before family before self, a system of personal and familal honor, directing their aggression outward to form a martial society with strict hierarchies, channeling their aggressive energies to military service and expansion.
Both approaches work to create extremely ordered and basically functional societies - but at their own costs. Surak's sacrifices the expression of emotion, the Romulan way sacrifices individuality and personal freedom. My view is that this was the fundamental difference that drove them apart, and why in the end the Romulans had to leave.
So La'An's reaction to becoming Vulcan may not really be because Romulans are Augmented Vulcans. It's just that her Augmented heritage (and her general personality) made her choose a more Romulan-esque way of how to control the natural passions of being Vulcan.
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u/ByGollie 13d ago edited 10d ago
It's an excellent theory, and it's my head canon
Here's the full thread
The Vulcans were the augmented victors in a Eugenics War style conflict with the Romulans
An updated thread with much more speculation Vulcans are Augments and the Romulan Schism isn’t as simple as it Seems.
Another recent thread - Remaking the Case: Romulans are the Original Species, Vulcans are the Genetic Augments
This one is a bit far out and posit Vulan as cultural manipulators of other races - The Vulcans Are What Happens When Genetic Engineering Runs Amok
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u/whatismydesignation 13d ago
Wow, I hadn’t seen these theories before. This actually makes way more sense
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u/Boomerang503 13d ago
It definitely reminded me of Star Trek Online, where the Ferasans (the legally distinct replacements of the Kzinti) are an augmented offshoot of the Caitians.
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u/ProgressBartender 13d ago
Canon has never hinted at that, but I like where your insight is going. It would explain a lot.
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u/whatismydesignation 13d ago
u/ByGollie posted a bunch of links to other posts in r/DaystromInstitute all discussing how it’s likely that Vulcans are the augments among them. It really makes a lot of sense when you go through them. But it definitely makes this bit in this episode feel like a waste, sadly. But it does open the door for more exposition on the matter in future episodes, which I do hope we get eventually
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u/thorleywinston 13d ago edited 13d ago
I never got the sense that La'an was supposed to be a Romulan. One thing that they touched on in the show is that Vulcans actually have stronger emotions than humans, they just use logic to suppress them and that logic isn't something that they are inherently born with, it comes through training and meditation.
The serum may have changed Pike, La'an, Uhura and Chapel into Vulcans biologically but none of them had gone through any of the training or education that Vulcans do. Which may explain why they kept making comments about "four and a half Vulcans" - they were acting like Vulcan children the same kind who teased Spock as a child for only being half-Vulcan and taunting him.
Same thing with Chapel wanting to end her relationships with Korby, Spock and all of her friends to concentrate on "science" - that's not something we generally see in adult Vulcans who maintain friendships, get married and start families, etc. but it might be the kind of overreaction an immature child might make without having an experienced adult to guide them.
Even the scene in La'an's head when she started fighting with Spock and it turned into a dance scene was a call back to the Original Series ("Whom Gods Destroy") when Kirk and Spock are watching Marta the Orion (played by Yvonne Craig) and Spock remarks how similar her dancing is to the dances that young Vulcan children perform.
So I don't think we were seeing Romulans, we were likely seeing Vulcans as they behave when they're children with strong emotions who had some understanding of logic (likely carried over from their memories as humans) but without the actual training the Vulcans undergo to allow them to interreact socially with other species constructively.
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u/Skiamakhos 13d ago
They have a common ancestor. Romulans channel their anger, while Vulcans suppress it. Basically there's a theory that's part of ST canon whereby there was a race of technologically advanced aliens who seeded the galaxy with humanoid and vulcanoid peoples. That's why there are so many aliens who look basically alike, just with slight differences.
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u/AlienJL1976 12d ago
I think the fact that there’s old augmented DNA in her body contributed to the transformation. No more no less. It pushed her toward Romulus tendencies but it wasn’t because they were augments but because there is one in her ancestry. I’m not looking too deep at this.
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u/strange_nude_girls 12d ago
To me, yes, she came out as Romulan, and the only difference was the Khan in her. If anything, this episode at least points to why genetic modification was banned. Because Vulcans and Romulans are essentially the same, it would make sense that the formula couldn't account for them being Vulcan or Romulan. So why was she the only one who turned? Star Trek is very intentional. Just saying its the way they handle emotions to me isn't a good enough explanation. None of them really handled it well and went extreme with every emotion or interest they had. So I agree that the Khan thing points to something else. How it ties in exactly im not sure. But great theory for sure!
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u/alcoholicplankton69 12d ago
Would be interesting if augmented Vulcans also made the ultimate sentient AI
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u/CandystarManx 13d ago
No. The episode is misleading us into thinking she went romulan & then the reveal it is her augment blood…which…i actually forgot she is augmented!
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u/Krennson 13d ago
Technically, that depends on how we define 'augment'. We know that La'an is descended from augments, but it's possible that the word 'augment' was originally created to refer to changes made to a human body over and beyond what could be accomplished using mere DNA at conception. If La'an ONLY had her parent's DNA to start with, and was otherwise gestated, born, and raised in the same manner as any other human, it's possible that she doesn't count as an augment because she never underwent any form of advanced experimental elective surgery or pharmaceutical use to 'improve' her.
It's also possible that if 'augmentation' DOES modify DNA, that a lot of the modifications are so artificial and so far from human baseline that they can't actually carry over into sperm and ova, and any descendant starts over with human-compatible DNA at conception... unless and until they receive the same 'upgrades' their parents did.
For example, in the episode talking about Una's Childhood, I believe that they made it pretty clear that Una's conception and birth, by itself, wasn't illegal, but the problem was some sort of 'upgrade ceremony' that Una received as a very young child... which, frankly, looked a lot more like a high-end nanotech injection that anything which DNA should ever be capable off.
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u/Bardez 12d ago
If La'an ONLY had her parent's DNA to start with, and was otherwise gestated, born, and raised in the same manner as any other human, it's possible that she doesn't count as an augment because she never underwent any form of advanced experimental elective surgery or pharmaceutical use to 'improve' her.
That is the implication given in the trial episode, the Bashir episode, etc. Intentional acts of augmentation are bad, anything inherited are considered natural. Also, La'an is likely "watered down" by generations of non-augment relationships.
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u/Krennson 12d ago
Of course, it's not clear exactly how many of La'an's other ancestors in Khan's generation were also augments or near-augments. For all we know, almost all of her x-great-grandparents were conscientious objector Augments or something, who tried to surrender to the normies or otherwise avoid the war that Khan was perfectly willing to fight. Except for the few of her ancestors who were totally on Khan's side, such as Khan himself. There could be some really nasty divorces in that generation of her family tree....
Likewise, we never did get a really good answer on whether or not any of the DNA-type 'improvements' included a gene-drive or something to guarantee inheritability of those elements of DNA which could be inherited at all.
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u/ticonderoge 13d ago
that was Spock's guess, but he doesn't know about the Romulan Vulcan connection yet.
might be one or the other or both together.
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u/CandystarManx 13d ago
Wrong on 2 accounts.
1: i was actually referring to la’an/pike saying “romulans” at the same time.
2: spock bloody well knows about romulans as they are vulcans who deny logic. Enter sybok who spock never talks about. Come on, do better. 😂
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u/ticonderoge 13d ago
that would entirely contradict a major point in Balance of Terror. do you have any evidence?
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u/CandystarManx 13d ago
No it wouldnt. Spock doesnt mention sybok there. He isnt supposed to. Just like he isnt supposed to mention michael or discovery or control or anything else he got mixed up in.
Watch some trek movies or something i dunno…..
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u/ticonderoge 13d ago
I don't follow why he would mention any of those things in that situation. Can you explain your ideas more clearly? When you say "romulans as they are vulcans who deny logic" are you saying you think Sybok counts as a Romulan? Are you also saying that because Spock can keep a secret, everything he says during Balance of Terror is a lie?
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u/AnnihilatedTyro 13d ago edited 13d ago
I don't think they implied that at all, but I can see how it could be interpreted that way.
Rather, I think it's that her augment DNA didn't react normally to the transformation, thereby prohibiting the development of logical thought and emotional control the others exhibited. So what she became was a pre-Surak Vulcan - some of whom did become the Romulan breakaway sect - but not a Vulcan augment.
I think there may be a deeper commentary that both human and Vulcan base emotions (like fear, aggression, and the whole gamut of emotions and traits exhibited by both human augments and Romulans), when not tempered by logic for Vulcans and compassion/empathy for humans, produce similarly dangerous results. And I think that is a much more fascinating idea than Vulcan augments.
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u/-Kerosun- 13d ago
I think it's simpler than that.
If you consider how each of them behaved after the transformation, it seems more likely that the emotional overflow of Vulcan physiology took some of their individual characteristics and bumped it up, emotionally, to a billion.
Chapel, a scientifically curious person, had her scientific curiosity cranked up to the max.
La'an, who struggles with managing her augmented DNA, working to suppress it and balance it with her role as security and tactical officer, lost her self-control over it and went haywire in that direction.
Uhura brainwashed Beto as a means of gaining control.
Pike, as captain and a leader who is constantly finding the balance between being the friendly, open leader vs being by-the-book, lost that balance and went haywire with micro-managing and trying to maximize efficiency.
Basically, their human psyche was thrown all out of wack with the overflow of emotion from their Vulcan physiology, and that Vulcan physiology cranked up some aspect of their human psyche and hyperfocused on it.
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u/AnnihilatedTyro 13d ago
Oh, that's an excellent point. I had only considered that with La'an but not the others.
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u/-Kerosun- 13d ago
This episode basically just taught me that all Vulcans have severe ADHD and their Kholinar is just learning how to manage their executive function properly and not hyperfocus to a detrimental level, lol.
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u/npete 12d ago
I definitely got the sense that she was Romulan but I don't see how that means Romulans were descended from augmented Vulcans. The kind of augmentation that was done to Khan, I assume, was very specific. I'm not a Star Trek know-it-all or anything but I do feel like Romulans were originally Vulcans, but broke off from them a long time early and, at some point, rejected the whole "suppress your emotions" thing. I could totally be wrong.
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u/rwalsh1981 12d ago
That’s basically been confirmed since TNG in Unification and backed up in Discovery showing Vulcans and Romulans reunited as one race .
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u/ComicsVet61 13d ago
No. Spock said that because she's a direct descendant of Kahn Noonien-Singh, she is more aggressive than the other crew that took the serum. He told her this when they were dancing in the mind meld.
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u/Interesting-Assist47 13d ago
Wait direct? khan was her father or grandfather? I thought it would be way more removed from that with a few more generations between them. Only khan was augement in that familyline so there would not be much of anything augement in her dna.
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u/Krennson 13d ago
If I remember correctly, Khan is La'ans great-grandfather or great-great-grandfather, and MOST of La'an's great-grandparents were augments, or at least descendants of augments. That's why they were on a ship together trying to travel far away from everyone else.
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u/lilyinblue 13d ago
They've never specified how many generations removed La'an is from Khan. She's only referred to him as an 'ancestor'. Given that they're separated by about 200 years, her choice of words definitely implies a few more 'greats' than that.
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u/silentCrusader123 13d ago edited 13d ago
Spock didn't say that, that was Pike (the events depicted in "Balance of Terror" hasn't happened yet, Spock has no idea what Romulans look like)
Edited; I didn't mean "errand of mercy"
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u/ticonderoge 13d ago
easy mistake, but "Errand of Mercy" is a TOS episode with Klingons (Kor), i believe you mean the SNW season 1 finale "A Quality of Mercy".
but are you sure Pike said anything about La'an's augment heritage this episode? i also remember it being Spock during the katra scene, like the comment you replied to.
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u/silentCrusader123 13d ago
Pike didn't say anything, no. I meant that La'an and Pike ended up confirming to each other that they both have an experience with Time, involving the Romulans...
I hadn't recalled Spoke saying anything about Romulans... I guess he found out in the meld? From La'an's mind?
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u/ticonderoge 13d ago
i agree Spock didn't say anything about Romulans. some other people in other comments are saying that, but i don't know where they're getting it from.
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u/seanx40 13d ago
Yes. They didn't imply. Pike and La"An actually said it
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u/ticonderoge 13d ago
they acknowledged they were both aware Romulans were related to Vulcans, but they did not say anything about Romulans being descended from genetically augmented Vulcans.
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u/seanx40 13d ago
But no one knew they were related at that point. Unless they were privy to top Secret intelligence. Remember, even Spock was surprised when he saw his first Romulan
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u/ticonderoge 13d ago
they both said they couldn't talk about how they found out, it was both during time travel incidents in previous episodes.
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u/-Kerosun- 13d ago
Pike directly learned of Romulans' connection to Vulcans from his time travel episode.
La'an indirectly learned of Romulans' connection to Vulcans from her time travel episode.
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u/seanx40 13d ago
And they apparently told no one
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u/ticonderoge 12d ago
telling people about experiences from time travel is a Prime Directive-level no-no. La'an was visited by Temporal Investigations agents who made sure she knew this, and Pike knew it because he saw the consequences of trying to meddle with the future.
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u/sbvrsvpostpnk 13d ago
Why does this feel like it was written by chat gpt
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u/AnnihilatedTyro 13d ago
I really loathe that posts more than one paragraph long, written in complete sentences, using proper punctuation and capitalization, and sounding like a normal human adult wrote it, are assumed to be AI all of a sudden.
AI has tells that are often pretty easy to spot. Clear declarative openings with frequent repetition and summation, like a high schooler's standard 5-paragraph essay. Odd word choices and redundancy, questionable adjective/adverb usage, brief bouts of purple prose that don't fit with the rest of it... things you read that, if you read a lot, should tweak your brain as not-quite-right. I see none of that in this post. Plus none of the AIs' training data is going to include this episode. A pretty good sign that something is NOT AI is if it's talking about something 3 days old and actually knows what it's talking about.
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u/whatismydesignation 13d ago
This is quite a frustrating time to be someone who attempts to communicate clearly, lol
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u/sbvrsvpostpnk 13d ago
The first paragraph was unnecessary. Please be considerate of reader time and attention. (Prayer hands)
I read a lot. I teach a lot. This reads just like a click bait article, the type that makes you click through 3 pages so you get maximal ad exposure.
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u/Complex_Rule_6338 12d ago
Imma be honest. This was not an episode where they thought that kind of thing all the way through. I love SNW but this episode was not their best work
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u/AgileFrontiers 13d ago
How is it that when Kirk, et al, "discovered" Khan in "The Space Seed"... Khan was basically a forgotten historical figure. But in Pike's pre-TOS universe everyone not only knows Khan, but is to terrified of his legacy that entire swaths of augments are outcasts?
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u/ticonderoge 12d ago
Khan wasn't forgotten at all, everyone on the senior staff knew about him and had opinions. They just didn't recognise his face until their historian reported.
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u/AgileFrontiers 11d ago edited 11d ago
Thanks, friend. I am not a stickler for canon. but Kirk definitely did not know who Khan was when he revealed his name in Space Seed. McGivers seems non-plussed by his name. They even laid out a banquet for him. Considering the stigma Khan's name has attained in NuTrek, Kirk and crew seem unconcerned about his arrival in Space Seed. Spock even comments about how the senior staff are "romanticizing" about his rule, and Kirk doesn't put a guard on Khan's door until after they review the historical record.
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u/ticonderoge 11d ago
they didn't recognise him from the rather common name Khan alone.
as soon as anyone heard the full name Khan Noonien Singh, everyone knew exactly who it was.
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u/AgileFrontiers 13d ago
And... by the time of "Wrath of Khan" - Khan was also dumped on a planet and forgotten? Wouldn't Khan have been brought to Federation "justice."
I am hoping beyond hope there is not going to be some sort of galactic "memory wipe" when Kirk takes over the Enterprise.
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u/asfjafjqifjeqoifjeoi 13d ago edited 13d ago
Nah....they re-confirmed the common ancestry. The drug made them Vulcans...but they all had their memories and experiences of their lives up until that point. So how each of them showed their "Vulcaness" was influenced by their human side.
For La'an, who is already violent by nature...it makes sense the Romulan would come out in her.