r/TheDragonPrince • u/MrBKainXTR Soren • Nov 22 '19

Discussion The Dragon Prince : S3E9 - Discussion Thread

Season 3 Episode 9

No spoilers for episodes beyond the relevant discussion thread!

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153

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '19

Is anyone else in love with Zubeia? I love her so much!!! My heart melted when she woke up and got to see her son!

101

u/omnitricks The Hero We Need Nov 23 '19

She actually seems nice compared to the two other "big" dragons.

Then I remembered she also sent assassins so there's that...

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u/Wheels9690 Nov 23 '19

To be fair Sol Regum gave the guy a choice. He may have been a bit of a prick but he still left them with a option to knock it off.

Thunder also gave the a choice, not wanting to mark his sons birthday as a day of death was willing to let them both leave without any consequences

51

u/Rote515 Nov 23 '19

The choice was a holocaust or giving up what makes your people powerful enough to survive in a world that seems to view them as lesser... That's not a choice. Mage in the first episode made the right choice.

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u/Wheels9690 Nov 23 '19

holocaust might be reaching. Cause its never implied(as far as I know) that the humans were being oppressed or tormented outside of Sol's wording. And to be completely honest when you watch someone ripping the life force of creatures you might see them as lesser as well.

Sol was being pretty generous giving him the ultimatum.

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u/Rote515 Nov 23 '19

We eat animals, most of what we see dark mages do is killing what amounts to magical animals. Dark magic solved humanities ills by killing magic butterflies... Dark magic isn't bad unless taken to far, and using it to solve human starvation is an actual good.

Sol threatening to destroy hundreds of thousands of innocent people for any reason, ever is always wrong. He's a piece of shit and I wish that fuck died.

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u/Wheels9690 Nov 23 '19

Except that its painfully clear dark magic corrupts? Eating to survive is one thing, killing shit cause it makes you stronger is another.

Sol giving them the option to stop ripping the life force out of magical beings so they can feel "included" or suffer major consequences for it is being generous.

Hell in opinion he should have just killed the guy and killed his students. No ultimatum.

14

u/Rote515 Nov 23 '19

Destruction of a lava giant to save humanity from starvation, assuming that said lava giant was either non-sentient or was evil. 100% worth it, anything like that 100% worth it, mass destruction of non-sentient beings to advance humanity 100% worth it.

Saying you'll kill innocent people, sentient self-aware beings if you don't stop killing butterflies, 100% always bad.

You can argue limits on Dark Magic, specifically don't kill sentient beings. I'd agree with that, but you'll never convince me that killing, what amounts to animals, for power is wrong.

killing shit cause it makes you stronger is another.

Just so you know that's how we became humans... Killing things, cooking them, and eating them. Using their bodies for tools.

17

u/Wheels9690 Nov 23 '19

Whats funny is you think it was only butterflys they were killing. Laughable really cause we know Viren turns Moon Elves into magic coins to store their magic.

As said as well, eating to survive is one thing. Ripping out magical creatures life energy so you can be included is another thing and thats exactly what they did.

I also love that you complete ignore the fact that dark magic has been said to not only corrupt the users but we have plenty of proof in Viren and Claudia that it does.

It says multiple times Humans and elves all lived together, it does not say that they were oppressed or kept as slaves. The fact there was cities of tens of thousands of humans in Xadia implies that humans were not being oppressed. So whats to say humans were not able to benefit from the help of elves or other magic users?

Humans didnt do it out of a dire need to survive, they did it for power.

Hundreds of years later the humans find themselves in a shitty situation that they created all on their own? Bummer for them.

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u/Rote515 Nov 23 '19

As said as well, eating to survive is one thing. Ripping out magical creatures life energy so you can be included is another thing and thats exactly what they did.

Did you watch season 2? or even S3 episode 1? where it's explicit that many things that are done with dark magic can only be done with dark magic. Original dark mage himself says that it allowed humanity to stop starving and struggling for survival, S2 is explicit that tens of thousands would have starved without it.

I also said in both my last two posts that limiting dark magic is fine, killing self-aware, sentient beings(it's much deeper than this, but this term will work for now) that are innocent is always 100% wrong, if a dark mage does that it is always wrong. If a dark mage sacrifices what amounts to an animal or an insect I have 0 problem with that.

Humans didnt do it out of a dire need to survive, they did it for power.

This is explicitly contradicted in the show in both S2 and S3e1, further I don't care. Killing for power is fine if what you're killing isn't sentient or is evil.(either one). Means literally nothing to me.

1

u/Wheels9690 Nov 23 '19

Btw, season 2 scenario with everyone starving has nothing to do with what I said about when Sol confronted the mage, it took place HUNDREDS of years after that confrontation. Had they not been dipshits in the past, that scenario might not have happened that put them at the risk of starvation gasps

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u/LemBuenviaje Jan 16 '20

And that's precisely how a human in the show would think. And precisely why Elves and other magical creatures despise them. Because they think only in the frame of humanity's advancement, and not looking at the bigger picture which is all living beings. It's all 'for the good of humanity this, or the good of humanity that', not 'for the balance of all living creatures'. And so you see why there would be animosity between humanity vs. other living things. Your argument is a prime example of human greed and self-righteousness

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '19

Dark magic is more like if animal meat was so addictive that you eventually need to consume human meat

2

u/Frostguard11 Nov 29 '19

Sol literally said if you don’t give it up I’m going to destroy a human city.

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u/Wheels9690 Nov 29 '19

Pretty generous to be given the option considering what we know about Dark Magic.

Now reaching into more theory and such it does come off as if it was not the first time they had confronted Ziard about Dark Magic but that much is still speculation despite how it seems.

2

u/Frostguard11 Nov 29 '19

lol I'm not going to get into an argument with someone about why killing thousands of innocents is bad.

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u/Wheels9690 Nov 29 '19

Cause dark magic doesnt involve killing anything innocent right?

1

u/Frostguard11 Nov 29 '19

No one's arguing Dark Magic is chill. The dark mage was a dick as well, doesn't excuse Sol Regem's threats or his actions.

If you think being a racist dick and then threatening said race with genocide is "generous" then yikes, that's fucked.

0

u/Wheels9690 Nov 29 '19

All magical creatures are put at risk over dark magic. So when the very existence of his people is in danger you expect him to do what exactly? Be a paragon of acceptance?

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u/theVoidWatches Nov 23 '19

I'm not giving Sol Regem any chances - he's a violently racist piece of shit, he doesn't deserve any chances. Not when he's shown no remorse in the slightest.

What kind of fucked up "choice" is that - give up striving to improve your species in a world that see you as lesser for your lack of magic or watch as I murder thousands of people in front of you?

No, fuck that guy very, very much.

1

u/Wheels9690 Nov 23 '19

This is hilarious

Dark Magic: The art of violently ripping out the life force of a magical creature sentient or not and subjugating their life essence to do whatever you want. I mean, lets not ignore the fact Viren turns Moon Elves into magical coins and such. Guess Moon Elves are just the same as butterflies in your book.

You:Humans deserve to improve their species they did nothing wrong

13

u/theVoidWatches Nov 23 '19

Me: Racism is bad, and trying to lift your people up when they've been discriminated against is a noble goal.

You: Guess you're okay with murder huh?

Don't strawman me, asshole.

I'm not saying that dark magic is perfectly fine - I'm not justifying what Virin is doing at all! What I'm saying is that wanting to stop humanity from being discriminated against doesn't justify the murder of thousands of innocent people - that there's no justification for what Sol Regem was about to do to that city. I'm saying that Sol Regem is a racist for blaming all humanity for the actions of dark mages, completely aside from whether or not dark magic is inherently evil, and that I'm not going to just give him a second chance when he's not shown the slightest bit of remorse.

To put it another way - if someone hates black people and sees them as lesser beings, that person is a racist piece of shit. If they make moves to wipe out an entire city of innocent black people, they're a violently racist piece of shit. I don't care what justification they offer, what crimes they present on the part of black people that supposedly make it okay for them to do it - they're a bad person.

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u/Wheels9690 Nov 23 '19

Thats not a strawman kiddo. Thats literally what it is.

Dark Magic is about consuming the life of magic creatures so those who dont have magic can use magic. Sentient or not, and its been made very clear they didnt just use little butterflies.

It is not limited to fucking butterflys like you wanna cling to.

Sol gave the guy a option, stop ripping out the lives of magic creatures for power plays or die. Pretty reasonable if you ask me.

However you seem to be pretty sympathetic to the idea.

You dont have much a argument when trying to defend the act of what Dark Magic is in the series lol.

13

u/theVoidWatches Nov 23 '19 edited Nov 24 '19

Yes, it's increasingly become clear that dark magic is corrupting and the use of it, while it can start from a good place and for good ends, leads to bad things. I'm not arguing that (except, I guess, to say that the dark mages at that time were still in a stage of trying to do good).

What I'm saying is that Sol Regem is a violent racist who has shown no remorse, so why the fuck would I like him? There's no justification for what he was going to do. Stop acting like the actions of dark mages makes it right to murder thousands of innocent people.

And yes, that was a straw man. You ascribed to me claims that I never made.

10

u/SonOfHonour Amaya Nov 25 '19

Sol is literally Hitler but with a nuclear bomb. Humans are lesser being who he exterminates by the hundreds of thousands because they're inconvenient. I can't believe people are actually defending his actions.

5

u/[deleted] Nov 23 '19

wait so was zym supposed to hatch that day if viren hadnt had taken him? I didn't understand that part when he said a 'day of life'

14

u/Wheels9690 Nov 23 '19

So this does kind of dwell into a mix of headcanon and not.

In season 1 they rush Zyms hatching with the magical storm caused by breaking the primal stone. Xadia is shown to be pretty much nothing but magic, even the dirt. Its likely that in that environment in the storm that he would have hatched that day.

I dont know if Viren had to do anything to keep the egg alive or if the egg would just kind of go into limbo when taken out of Xadia

6

u/Wuskers Nov 24 '19

as someone who's been pretty critical of the dragons, Sol Regem in particular, I don't feel like after the death of her King/Lover as well as her child, since we presume she thought he was dead, I don't know that I think an assassination mission is totally uncalled for lol