Kengan-tier Practice: Verlux(Hattori Hanzo) vs Goldlizard(Number Man)

[u/Verlux]

Tier: Kenganman

Arena: The Forest of Blood and Blades

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Hattori Hanzo (Verlux)

Stipulations:

• As he was going into his first Tenkaichi match

vs

Number Man (Goldlizard)

Stipulations:

• Armed with a knife

[u/yolo_zombie]

Judgement Hanzo vs Number Man

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Ver 1

Hanzo posting

• Hanzo has ranged options and a reach advantage
• Hanzo hits hard and could take number man out with a hit
  • could’ve dug into how hard he’s hitting here rather than relying on reader interpretation- I know you have facts about copper tiles
• Hanzo Endures
• Hanzo sees stress points
  • reading this now it feels less like a ‘path to victory’ and more like how to trigger a sequence of events quickly with a high degree of certainty. Still insane.

Why Number man loses

• Lack of range
• Lack of clear feats
• Lack of clear win con

Yeah, worm has a tendency to talk around events and not actually describe them, which is a shame.

• Number man lacks durability beyond a human.
  • I get what Ver is going for here, but I feel like the 19th story fall guy isn’t like ‘any human’ and if number man landed on concrete rather than a car… there are factors that could sway me here but for now yeah number man.

Yeah the Kojiro-Number man likeness really sold me here at the end, Number Man feels like a worse version of Kojiro, and Hanzo beat Kojiro.

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Gold 1

Numbers

• Uses math to fight good
• Breaks shit good
• It’s bullseye again

I did a read through of the argument, then opened the feats. There’s issues here. It’s all x then y without How.

Essentially I don’t doubt he did these things, but without knowing how it’s hard to judge how applicable they are. (This isn’t a judgement on the debater but the character/media).

• unimpressive speed feats
• Good senses
• ‘Incomparably fast’ then links feats comparing him unfavourably to a contessa character? Should have provided context here

Number man does seem to be able to read fights and see weaknesses, but a lot of it is vague or him talking, it’s not exactly shown how or leveraged to the degree of Hanzo.

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Ver 2

• NM’s detection is slow
• Hanzo’s feats exist
• Hanzo’s stats haven’t been contended
• Interactions with Hanzo result in NMs death

Broadly I agree, I don’t think it’s immediate, but I definitely think it’s a very quick victory for Hanzo at this point.

• take down of NMs power
• take down of NMs defence

Yeah the Kojiro fight seems like Hanzo vs better number man still.

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Gold 2

Rebuttals

• Comparison of Number man’s power to Hanzo’s

  • this is pretty solid though Hanzo’s feats are still much better presented and combat focused. NM ‘paused’ and observed math while thinking, Hanzo saw a stress point (a means by which to exert stress on his opponent to strategically leverage an advantage) and utilised it quickly and effectively in combat.
  • this is better and clearer than NMs feats, and more applicable.

• the feats here don’t counter the ‘contessa’ just wins’ allegations

• Likewise, NMs feats here are vague, he dodges a strike from a guy with ~multidimensional powers~

  • please just explain his adversaries power and why it would be a hard thing to dodge, it just reads as narrowly dodging a punch without context

• Numbermans speed here does seem decent, but again we need context! The lady shooting the crossbow, what’s her deal? The trained fighter, what’s his deal?

  • I think NM is maybe equally fast as Hanzo, at least fast enough to interact with him

• Numbers stuff

  • I don’t think you can downplay Hanzo’s feats, he strikes up a tile to distract an opponent, utilises this to get himself into a position where he can make a follow up attack, and clearly does so on the fly in the midst of fast paced combat
  • I do think NMs beautiful mind does afford him some advantage

• still don’t know how the dog was brought down, just that the attack was different than being batted aside by a train track

• Don’t know what Number man hit through the fog, if anyone, how he knew to shoot there, or if this is applicable to fighting Hanzo.

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CONCLUSION

Decent debate, closer than I thought, Gold you did a solid job with the second response there.

Here’s what I buy

• Hanzo has a seemingly innate way of formulating elaborate plans quickly to leverage a deadly advantage against his opponents
• Number man is smart and good at applied physics
• Hanzo has a number of tools in his kit which, in combination with his innate ability, pose a threat to NM
• NM has peak human physicals
• NM’s feats a vague or not explained enough for me to draw a link between a lot of them and this fight
• NM feels like a weaker version of Kojiro
• Hanzo’s style of fighting is specifically hard to predict
• Hanzo has mad endurance
• Number man’s durability is ?

In summary I think Hanzo has too many advantages here, it’s kind of a Swiss army knife vs a spork, one just has a shitload more utility than the other.

Hanzo/Ver wins. If they both just had a knife it would be closer but I believe Hanzo would still win in that instance on account of his staying power.

Good debate !

[u/mikhailnikolaievitch → u/yolo_zombie]

GOLD vs. VERL JUDGEMENT

I think Yolo basically summarized all the same points I found most appealing. Hanzo's win con seems simpler and more immediate and he is likelier to engage it first in the relevant timeframe of a quickdraw. Gold did a really awesome job building up his own points though, and I think with different spawn conditions I could see Number Man getting the edge.

Sorry this took me some time for such a brief judgement, but it really looks like Yolo already wrote out most everything I would've detailed.