r/TheGreatDebateChamber • u/EmbraceAllDeath • Jul 22 '20
Nightwing Lightning Rounds
HOW THE TOURNEY WORKS
This tournament operates by the same rules as the Great Debate Season 10. However, there are a couple of fundamental changes.
OOTs will be considered on an individual judge basis, similar to how it's done in the Clash of Titans.
Participants will be asked to submit 3 picks. The tourney format will be 2v2s, barring a 3v3 for the final round.
Instead of having users respond sequentially, responses in this tournament will be simultaneous. What this entails is that participants will DM their responses to the tourney organizer, /u/EmbraceAllDeath within a 24 hour period from the start of the round. At that point in time, the tourney organizer will post all responses, at which point another 24 hour window opens in which the same thing happens. The tourney organizer, at their discretion, can post 2 responses from a particular match up before the deadline to speed up the tourney
Tourney Format
- Round 1 will have essentially randomized matchups against users, with no real stigma against asking for a specific opponent
- Round 2 will then have winners of round 1 face winners of round 1 and losers do likewise, round 3 will continue with winners of round 2 vs winners, etc.
- Two losses then remove you from the tournament
The final round will be a 3v3.
General
- This is a double elimination tournament. Each entrant will have to lose or drop twice to be removed from the tournament. This is also a Round Robin tournament, in which winners of the rounds face each other, and losers face each other, randomized. Before each round, you will choose two of the three characters you're running.
- Rounds will last 48 hours, the first two rounds cannot be extended.
- Responses are limited to 10k characters each, two main responses and then a conclusion-response that won't be considered for new points.
- Response 1 (10k)/Response A (10k)/Response 2 (10k)/Response B (10k)/Conclusion 1 (7.5k)/Conclusion A (7.5k). Intros are optional.
- OOT requests and defenses are limited to 3.5k characters as a separate comment from your responses.
- Combatants start 12 meters apart unless otherwise stated.
- The character you are using must have existed in the medium at one point.
- You cannot run a character whose story you have contributed to (George Lucas can't run Luke Skywalker)
- Any scaling you intend to be using should be accessible through a sign up post.
- Your character must be in-tier on the Unlikely-Likely victory metric.
- If your opponent is running a character you believe to be OOT, you may submit an OOT request, judged separately from the debate itself. You start with one OOT request, and if you fail with a request, 1k characters are deducted from your response limit.
- How declaring a character out of tier works is that in tribunal, a character will need to be in-tier in every arena, but for each round, you can only call them OOT for that arena. For example - If a plant character is out of tier in the jungle, but you're in a volcano, it doesn't matter.
Arenas
Round 1 – Templo Mayor / Rust / Northern Water Tribe during Pakku vs Korra/ Geographic Center of the United States/Going Merry
Round 2 – Top of the Gateway Arch / Kengan Arena/ Hyrule / Rust/ a Highway
Round 3 – London Bridge / Easter Island / Wakanda waterfall during Killmonger vs T'Challa / Shadow Temple Basement / Zhangiajie Glass Bridge
Round 4 – Pro Bass Pyramid / Final Destination / King Kai's planet
1
u/EmbraceAllDeath Aug 10 '20 edited Aug 10 '20
Mik's Response 1
Shooter & Siryn vs. Gein & Lady
Instant Kill - Shooter
1) Shooter speed
Shooter's draw speed grants him the first attack in the match, simultaneously headshotting both opponents at once. He starts a fight by headshotting two men, then proves his draw speed when he holsters his gun to light a cigar, then draws and fires to kill 5 more men before any can fire on him. Here is a more thorough breakdown of his quickdraw showing how Shooter's hands passed roughly 4 ft. (face to hip & hip to face) in the time it took 5 thugs to draw their weapons from 2-3 inches away. Assuming an average .3s drawspeed, Shooter is drawing 24x faster. In .012 seconds Shooter is firing at the competition before they even draw their weapons.
His speed advantage only cascades from there. When an unseen sniper bullet is fired at him he moves his arm and fires back to shoot the bullet out of the air. He is demonstrably bullet-timing & capable of hitting bullet-speed objects.
He nails Luthor Strode with bullets 3 times in their 1 fight, despite Strode demonstrating he is faster than bullets multiple times even in that same fight. Shooter & Strode are both demonstrably bullet timing. You can literally see both of them move in relation to a bullet. The bullet timing and scaling here is unassailable:
Even in the miracle the opposition survives the initial quickdraw Shooter's speed persists in victory thereafter. Shooter outpaces Strode and evades the ~bullet speed projectiles Strode throws before outrunning him up several flights of stairs during which he leaps from one building to another. Strode has an extended sequence where he catches up to speeding vehicles. Shooter absolutely will and absolutely could maintain his distance if the need arose.
2) Shooter doesn't miss
Nothing else my opponent says will matter if his characters can't avoid Shooter's bullets -- and they can't. You can discount almost everything he says if there is not a justification for them avoiding Shooter's bullets. Keep in the forefront of your mind that Shooter has 1 appearance in 1 comic ever, and during that appearance he a bullet timer with bullets 3 times in their 1 fight. Simply being fast isn't enough.
This is partly because of Shooter's accuracy and predictive ability. Shooter can predict movements and ricochet shots to hit fleeing targets and Shooter will know where the opposition will evade or block and how to adjust his aim. The opposition have never faced anyone as fast or accurate as Shooter and have 0 feats of avoiding bullets from someone of such superlative skill.
3) Shooter power
Shooter's bullets are more powerful than a high powered rifle, shattering the bullet of one midair before destroying the opposing rifle itself. Shooter's bullets even tear through Strode's muscles which were capable of stopping several bullets. The opposition have never withstood piercing power that is so superior to real world bullets, and a single headshot will kill them.
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Instant Kill - Siryn
1) Unavoidable AoE
Siryn's scream fills an entire city street as it tosses over cars and everyone standing in her way. She frequently scatters several people at once while deafening them and it's easily enough to pulverize a tree trunk from a few meters away.
There's also the deafening/stunning factor of the scream to consider, as combatants like Gein & Lady would grip their ears as they're thrown around, instinctively drop their weapons and cover their ears, an effect with enough AoE to encompass an entire hospital
Siryn's ability to shape and control sonics compounds with her bullet speed reactions as well, allowing her scream to establish a barrier between herself and fired bullets while they are still midair, something that protects she and her allies from any projectiles. Siryin's attack is unavoidable while her opposition's physically cannot land, and both attack and defense come at amplified sonic speeds outpacing anything the opposition can do.
2) Siryn power
Siryn's scream grows deadlier the closer her competition gets. From the starting range it is already plenty to spill over cars or wreck them altogether, but at shorter distances the scream busts through walls or takes out the corner of a castle. Any metal projectiles or or Gein's diamond steel wires would shatter before touching her even as she projected an attack
3) Hypnosis
Following the initial blitz of an attack if the competition are miraculously alive they would very quickly fall to their inability to defend from sonic hypnosis.
She convinces an entire militia to lay down their weapons, convinces people to do even what they're adamantly opposed to doing, and her powers work on women as well as men. Gein and Lady, who have no feats for their mental fortitude or have auditory devices blocking Siryn's effect, would be rendered either entirely useless and defenseless upon mesmerization.
Comparisons
Neither Shooter nor Siryn's durability matters as neither would ever get hit. On top of their sonic/supersonic attacks iniating the round before the opposition attacks, Shooter's superlative reaction times and Siryn's sonic barriers both guard against either taking a single hit from Gein & Lady. Lady takes a kick from someone demonstrably moving at IRL speeds while Gein relies entirely on this 1 feat scaling to Aoshi that itself dubiously connects to bullet speeds.
Consider how Shooter, in his grand total of 1 appearance ever, produced firsthand bullet-timing feats in combination with multiple scaling to other bullet timers (Strode & Delilah) and compare it to how Gein & Lady in their far greater number of appearances have far fewer bullet-speed feats and the disparity here becomes apparent.
Lady's attempts to block a gunshot or shoot it out of the air not only evidence her vulnerability to bullets, but also the fact that she would take the exact wrong tactic against Shooter, whose bullets would tear through her defense and kill her. Lady has no piercing durability to speak and even gets stabbed in the thigh by a regular knife. She barely has any defense against Siryn's screams either, as just a kick from what's at best a peak human splays her out whereas a low end scream from Siryn does that to several men all at once and a higher end shatters a tree trunk.
Gein's defenses are even worse as the only feat listed in his durability is an antifeat for him getting burned. He has virtually no resistance to bullets or sonic screams and gets destroyed the second the battle starts.