r/TheHague • u/Bullsapiens • Jul 20 '25
news Coming Soon to The Hague
It’s already happening in UK.
What are your thoughts?
Do you support the full ban?
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u/fuckyeahglitters Centrum Jul 20 '25
YES! so many very young kids driving like maniacs on these things. I really hope they get outright banned or at least regulated (18+, just like a drivers license).
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u/VinceNL_ Jul 20 '25 edited Jul 20 '25
These comments make me lose hope. It seems noone can think rationally.
The legal limit of an ebike is 25km/h. That's not an insane speed, you can go that speed with a regular bike.
An illegal ebike is already illegal. If you want to go faster than 25km/h legally you can get a speedpedelec which requires a moped license (with age limit), helmet and license plate.
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u/sndrtj Jul 20 '25
Hear hear hear! Start by enforcing the existing rules before making new ones.
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u/fredlantern Jul 20 '25
The existing rules are hard to enforce for the authorities though.
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u/sndrtj Jul 21 '25
Are they? The problems with fat-bikes are nigh identical to the ones in the early 2000s with scooters. Those were also often modified in the after market to go faster than allowed. You rarely see scooters go 80 anymore. Why? Because at some point it was a near guarantee your scooter would be put on a roller bench. The exact same strategy would work for fatbikes. Just put them on a roller bench and see how fast they go. Impound the vehicle if over 25.
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u/fredlantern Jul 21 '25
There are WhatsApp groups where locations of roller benches are. Also sometimes you can increase and decrease max speed sometimes by just using an app, flipping a switch or pulling a cable.
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u/knedle Jul 21 '25
I live in Almere and a few months ago I was cycling behind a Police motorbike.
At one point, the policeman noticed there was someone riding on a fat bike. He stopped, checked fat bike's speed with a speed gun, then chased after that guy on a fat bike and gave him a ticket.
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u/fredlantern Jul 21 '25
Because in Almere policemen have nothing better to do.
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u/knedle Jul 21 '25
But when I used to live in DH, I've seen a policeman busting a kid riding a bike without lights. :D
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u/fredlantern Jul 21 '25
They can do this once in a while but there are too many kids riding around on beefed up fatbikes to make a dent. Just because some officer may hand out a ticket one time doesn't address this problem at all and the authorities are already quite stretched. Kids on fatbikes are just not a priority. (Perceived) chance of being caught and severity of the concequences determine much of the outcome. It will be easier to enforce when the rules are simple. Like no electric bike under 16 or smth. Or mandatory bike registration, license plates and speed cameras. That will be more expensive though.
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u/Ronald_raygun_420 Jul 25 '25
Not at all hard to enforce sake with mopeds
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u/fredlantern Jul 25 '25
It's easier to return an electric bike (or electric moped for that matter) to factory settings without trace than a moped. In some cases you can do this with your phone. Also you have to be 16 and have a license for a moped.
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u/Ronald_raygun_420 Jul 25 '25
Heavily depends on the kind of ebike/moped. But a normal moped can be tuned aswel , to run harder then what is legally allowed. Its simple really if police catches you breaking the law you get a fine do ig again and your vehicle gets impounded
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u/blingthenoise Jul 20 '25
Fatbikes are basically electric snorfietsen with the throttle in the botton bracket instead of the handlebars. And snorfietsen are bound to all kinds of regulations. Why should fatbikes be excempt of that?
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u/VinceNL_ Jul 20 '25
They aren't excempt of that an fatbike isn't even a seperate thing it's just an ebike with fat wheels, people just decided to call that a fatbike.
If an ebike doesnt meet these requirements its illegal:
- The motor only assists up to 25 km/h.
- The motor power can’t exceed 250 watts.
- The motor must only provide assistance when you pedal (no throttle allowed!)
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u/blingthenoise Jul 20 '25
snorfietsen go max 25km/h and are subject to license, registration and helmet. I specifically mention fatbikes, not only because of the OP but because they are comparable in size weight and speed like snorfietsen which society agreed cannot be driven by people under 16 y/o. So would it be unreasonable to have similar rules for e-bikes, especially the ones resembling snorfietsen?
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u/Eagle_eye_Online Jul 24 '25
The special needs people of Reddit seem to think that it's just that specific e-bike, no details just "REEEEEEEEeeeee fatbike REEEEEEEEEEE!!!!"
If you drive that bike with legal speeds and adhere to the traffic laws, there's no problem.
But the special ones think that if you somehow ban the entire bike the problem is somehow solved.
It's fascinating that they think that way.1
u/LickingLieutenant Jul 24 '25
Second this. We have a fat bike here. Why .. it was cheaper than a regular one. It just barely hits 24 and the hand throttle goes to 6km It has two racks so I can go shopping without problems to getting it home again.
I'm all for age restriction or better control on speeds (ours can't even get to the go faster menu, it's blocked by the factory)
I used to drive mopeds, Honda MT5 and MTX's all of which had faster blocks and carburators, so 80 was 'normal' But the increase of checks and rollenbanken, and 2 hefty fines were enough for me to drive the original 49.9cc blocks again
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u/aristo87 Jul 21 '25
That's such a dumb argument, its so very clearly an issue...
So many accidents...
But "yUo CaN gO 25 kM/h oN a ReGuLaR bIkE" so lets just do nothing. Hell, lets increase it to 35 km/h since most can do that on a regular bike with a little effort.
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u/Ok_Run_101 Jul 21 '25
I don't think he's saying let's do nothing. I think what he means is "we have laws that are supposed to keep e-bikes from going more than 25km, so there shouldn't be extra regulation". And I agree with this position.
First of all, the law states that people cannot drive ebikes with a throttle without a driver's license, since it is classified as a moped. But the reality is that anybody can buy those at bikes stores. So the easiest place to start is to make it mandatory for bike stores to require license verification when selling a ebike with a throttle - failure to comply should lead to a fine/penalty to the store. This is something that can be done without changing the traffic laws, and something that can be done without putting thousands more cops on the streets to catch riders.
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u/VinceNL_ Jul 21 '25
I didn't say it wasn't an issue. It is an issue. Making more useless laws just won't do anything. There's existing laws to prevent dangerous ebikes that are fine but people just ignore them and they are rarely enforced.
It all comes down to the bigger issue that there's simply not enough police capacity and in practice laws don't matter.
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u/saigakiri Jul 21 '25
True, 25 km/h is not much when you are on a straight bike lane between cities. Inside city? Can get pretty hectic. In childs hands? Now we have an issue. Personally I think forcing a ban on electric vehicles below 18 y/o could save a lot of parents tears. That goes for all of them, scooters and steppers alike.
I saw a child around 12 y/o on a full blown electric scooter which is definitely capable of 25 km/h not so long ago, and I just couldn't help but think the way he was controlling it, I was like "Yep, that's how this child dies."
I think if the law ban on under 18 y/o goes through it'll help parents force the rules on their children which may help the situation.
But yeah you're not wrong, bigger issues are in place, but imo making a law is not as useless as you say.
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u/aristo87 Jul 23 '25
Useless law? With this law you can detain any kid that looks young enough and fine them.
At the moment they can't do sh*t without proving that it goes faster than 25 km/h, which in most cases isn't even the issue.
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u/VinceNL_ Jul 23 '25
If speed isn't the big issue what is the issue then? I think that's a pretty big issue.
If you mean going forward without pedalling with a throttle, that can very easily be proved.
If you mean general reckless behaviour, that can be done with a regular bike too. Should those be banned too?
You also see a lot of kids on fully automatic escooters. Those are always illegal but isn't often enforced in practice too.
I value personal freedom a lot and I don't think people that follow the laws should be punished for other people that can't behave. Existing laws should just be enforced but the government doesn't seem very interested in solving the problem of police shortage.
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u/RougeBasic100 Jul 20 '25
Can we also not have scooters on the bikelanes anymore? They drive waay too fast
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u/refinancecycling Jul 20 '25
the main problem imho is that they are loud and stinky af, but speed is a problem too
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u/catacavaco Jul 20 '25
they are also extremelly polluting for the amount of mass that they transport
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u/Financial_Pick3281 Jul 20 '25
Nothing is going to happen tbh. Every month the situation is getting noticeably worse, and it's already evident that many people who were combative at first now just shrug and accept the new reality.
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u/LickingLieutenant Jul 24 '25
Politicians aren't going to do anything. Their 'reign' for this term is practically over. And to make these laws they would need more then 4 years. So IF it eventually gets through, who gets the blame/praise ?
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u/Herisoon Jul 20 '25 edited Jul 20 '25
As lots have mentioned, the police just needs to start applying the current legislation, there are 2 clearly defined options with each their specific requirements and obligations.
E-bikes (up to 25 km/h): Legality: Generally legal to ride on bike paths and roads. Regulations: Treated like regular bicycles, so no license, registration, or helmet is required. Speed: Maximum assistance speed is 25 km/h. Road usage: Can use bike lanes and roads.
Speed Pedelecs (up to 45 km/h): Legality: Considered light mopeds, subject to moped regulations. Regulations: Requires a moped license (AM or B), license plate, insurance, and helmet. Speed: Maximum speed is 45 km/h. Road usage: Generally uses the road or designated moped paths; may use bike paths when specifically indicated by a sign. Age: Minimum age of 16.
If you have a modified e-bike faster than 25km/h (that can be easily achieved with the import bikes and lots of ‘fat bikes’) you are actually driving an unregistered Speedpedelec. And likely are failing to comply with it’s requirements including plate, license, helmet… the police must start enforcing stricter fines for those multiple violations.
And if you actually have a bike that goes above 45km/h or that can move with throttle only; it’s akin to e-scooter, you are violating more rules including not being allowed on bike path. Fines should be even harder and it should be systematic confiscation/destruction of vehicle for repeat offenders.
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u/golem501 Jul 20 '25
I don't see a legal option to ban them. My preference is license plates for all e-bikes and mandatory helmets for them as well. And maybe a ban in pedestrian areas where bikes are allowed.
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u/TheS4ndm4n Jul 20 '25
Legal ebikes are limited to 25 kph and require you to pedal. Very easy to spot that most fatbikes don't fit this requirement.
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u/TheTxoof Jul 20 '25
The worst thing about these particular types of bikes is that they are the worst possible combination of cheap parts, terrible drivetrain and a frame that encourages people to have passengers.
The breaks are extremely cheap mountainbike knockoffs with tiny rotors, tiny pads and lousy construction. The whole system is barely adequate to stop the bike and a single, light rider. When you add a passenger, it's really inadequate.
Just ban pedal assist that goes more than 24 kph completely and make throttle driven frames with appropriate breaks the law. Require helmets and plates and you keep kids off of them.
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u/mmcnl Jul 20 '25 edited Jul 20 '25
Assistance above 25km/h is already illegal. More rules won't help if the current ones are not enforced.
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u/sndrtj Jul 20 '25
More than 25kph already is banned. Literally. It just ends up not being enforced. New rules won't do anything until we actually start enforcing rules.
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u/yogi77c Jul 20 '25
You miss the most dangerous part, tires with studs like dirt bikes resulting in 0 traction when there is a tiny bit of rain.
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u/XilenceBF Jul 20 '25
Got confused for a second but I think you mean brakes. And I agree. These things are projectiles being abused because of a hype.
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u/BobcatSpiritual7699 Jul 20 '25
Of course there’s a legal option to ban them. Why not? Their features are simple to define.
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u/linhhoang_o00o Jul 20 '25
Ok let's say "ban all bike with fat tires", how do you define a "fat tire"? Let's say with thickness of 10cm, well they just make a different tire of 9cm. There're already normal ebikes that have tire thickness close to fatbikes. This argument already existed for a long time and it was exactly the reason they couldn't make a legal base to ban fatbikes.
The core problem was that they couldn't control the sell of foreign bikes originated from China, and when people saw that these bikes are much cheaper and more powerful than ones from Dutch sellers, of course they want to buy it. Fatbike is simply easier to blame but there're already many Chinese ebikes that looks exactly like normal ebikes and are much faster, that's when the real battle begins.
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u/Ill-Corgi-8525 Jul 20 '25
The problem is the aesthetic of the fatbike attracting dickhead riders. Once you ban an ebike with the tire thickness and frame of a standard fatbike the problem is solved. The fatbike demographic would 100% not start riding an ebike omafiets once the fatbike is banned.
Case in point, we've had ebikes for over a decade and never had a problem with rider behaviour until the fatbike was introduced
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u/linhhoang_o00o Jul 21 '25
Are you saying that we should make a law that ban all bikes that resemble a... motorbike or how exactly do you describe it? No big frames? No big tires? Or "ban all bikes that attract bad riders?".
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u/BobcatSpiritual7699 Jul 20 '25
Easy, if they make a new bike with thinner tires, smaller battery, different frame, then it’s no longer the problem fat bike. That would be precisely the desired outcome.
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u/fenianthrowaway1 Jul 20 '25
Tell me, what makes you think you know better than the experts who are already on record stating it will be nearly impossible to ban fatbikes without either being ineffective or covering conventional ebikes as well?
Besides, the problem isn't the bikes, the problem is antisocial behaviour. Banning one outlet for that behaviour without addressing the root causes just means the behaviour will pop up again in some different guise.
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u/BobcatSpiritual7699 Jul 21 '25
Because believe it or not, politicians don't magically become the smartest or most sensible people just because they get elected. You can absolutely easily make laws to ban these sort of bikes just like they did with mopeds. There are clear characteristics of these bikes that makes them simple to define and which are very different from regular ebikes, primarily the tires. And yes, the bike is part of the problem.
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u/DeathBySnowSnow Jul 20 '25
Indeed. Look at other countries that for example limit the amount of power the bike is legally allowed to deliver as 'support'. Bikes that don't meet this limit technically are not even allowed to be sold in other countries.
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u/mmcnl Jul 20 '25
What do you mean? 250W power and 25km/h max assisted speed is already the legal limit.
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u/BobcatSpiritual7699 Jul 20 '25
Yup, only in the Netherlands it seems is it perfectly legal to sell things there banned. Fireworks, e-scooters, etc.
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u/golem501 Jul 20 '25
The illegal ones are already not legal. Other than that it's pretty grey and there was already talk of skinny bikes. Covering all electric bikes is easier.
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u/expostulation Jul 20 '25
In the UK ebikes don't need a licence, but you're only allowed a certain amount of power and no throttle is allowed generally. Anything over that can be seized and points on your driving licence for driving an unregistered /uninsured motor vehicle.
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u/golem501 Jul 20 '25
Same, they're limited and throttle is not allowed. First time is a fine second time is bike shredded
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u/VinceNL_ Jul 20 '25 edited Jul 20 '25
Illegal ebikes are illegal why can't they be banned??
Why should ebikes not be allowed where bikes are allowed. You can go 25km/h too with a regular bike. A normal legal ebike has a limit of 25km/h.
There's legal ebikes that go above 25 km/h, they are called speedpedelecs. They have almost the same rules as a moped, and like you described they require a license plate and also a moped license.
We got enough laws already just not enough enforcement. Perhaps there should be less laws so things that matter actually can be enforced.
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u/Individual-Ad-3401 Jul 20 '25
The most insane thing they did is make a helmet mandatory on the snorfiets causing even more people to ride electric bikes with the same speed without any protection.
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u/golem501 Jul 20 '25
This is why the fatbikes are now everywhere. But even ignoring the people who went from blue plate to fatbikes there is a huge group of younger than 16's now as well. In past years the injuries with bikes has increased especially e-bikes both with 55+ people and younger than 20. Helmets are not a bad idea. Helmets also remove the cool factor. License plates makes it easier to check for legality and for evidence.
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u/Individual-Ad-3401 Jul 20 '25
Yeah thats the other insane part how are people under 16 allowed to ride them in the first place, I bet some politicians kids had a hard time biking to school with strong winds. Back in the day no way u could drive a Sparta-Met at that age.
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u/VinceNL_ Jul 20 '25
Why is it insane, an ebike has a legal limit of 25km/h! That's a speed that you can reach with a regular bike.
It's obviously not allowed to ride an ebike that can go illegal speeds.
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u/PCSquats Jul 20 '25
Ban no, regulate yes. Just say any two or three wheeled bike that is capable of going faster than 24km/h while assisted by a motor or being driven by said motor requires a license plate and a helmet. Also make it so that the electric motor doesn’t work above the 25km/h and if its able to do more than that limit on a flat straight, incur a penalty.
But most of all, make them “uncool”-helmets do this.
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u/VinceNL_ Jul 20 '25
..You are describing something that already exists.
An ebike that has electric motor that can go above 25 km/h legally is a speedpedelec. It has almost the same rules as a moped: it has a license plate, helmet and moped license.
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u/PCSquats Jul 21 '25
Yes i am aware, but that’s why these should be regulated as a speed pedelec, those go 45km/h though. I mean blue license plate mopeds get regulated, now it’s the same folks on a fatbike.
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u/mmcnl Jul 20 '25
That's already the case. Max. assisted speed is 25km/h. Max power output is 250W. Higher than that means you need to wear a helmet and have a license yellow plate. The fine already is €390. The problem is the law is not being enforced. We don't need new/more rules, we need law enforcement.
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u/sndrtj Jul 20 '25
Anything faster than 24 already is regulated. It just ends up being unenforced because police doesn't have the capacity.
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u/pagehead Jul 20 '25
Not sure if a ban is possible but there should be more rules. For example make a helmet mandatory, give it an age restriction. Fatbikkes are mostly used by the lower class of society so making it uncool is the best way to deal with it.
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u/cookingandcursing Jul 20 '25
Can we please stop with these daily posts? There is already a law in place that would prevent the ones that are rinding illegally but this country is allergic to enforcing it's own rules.
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u/Otherwise_Visual_966 Jul 21 '25
Yes. When I got my first moped A long long time ago. I needed a drivers license for it. These crazy bikes go super fast and drive in the middle of the shopping streets, absolute insanity. Also the amount of increase in harassment is noticeable. Being spit at from e-bikes, plenty of stories of women getting molested. Obviously we are not talking about a horny bicycle. But still it seems to be a accelarotor for bad behaviour from the audience that drive on them most.
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u/DrunKeN-HaZe_e Jul 20 '25
100%
Anything or anyone illegal should be banned or booted out.
No excuses.
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u/sndrtj Jul 20 '25
Against. Because there already are rules that simply aren't enforced. Start by enforcing the existing rules, instead of making new ones that will in all likelihood also end up unenforced.
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u/megadwarp Jul 20 '25
I hate the idea of an e-bike, just cycle yourself🙄 But I don’t have the same awful experience all of you seem to have, I don’t mind them.
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u/EntForgotHisPassword Jul 20 '25
Ehh I bike to Leiden daily on my E-bike. If I had a normal or speed bike I wouldn't have energy to do other workouts after work that I like more! My bike is for getting me from point A to point B with as little hassle as possible.
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u/megadwarp Jul 20 '25
I am of the opinion if you’re not biking anyway get a scooter but I honestly don’t know the rules surrounding them both, so maybe that doesn’t make sense.
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u/EntForgotHisPassword Jul 20 '25
You do also use your own power on e-bike, you'll definitely feel it if you bike an hour at full speed (my general stamina definitely improved from starting to bike to work with it). You also have way more control on an e-bike than on a scooter, and they fit in bike racks. The amount of electricity you need to charge it is minimal tbh, so "fuel" doesn't really cost me anything.
I don't think it makes sense to forbid them, just because some models are shit and some users are assholes. When I was young the asshole kids would be on scooters, now they're on fatbikes.
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u/ReverseCargoCult Jul 21 '25
That's a weird gatekeep to be honest. At least you use some momentum with an ebike over a scooter.
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u/FloepieFloepie2 Jul 22 '25
Got hit today by 3 Rtards (15/16y.o.) on a fatbike. The tards were on the sidewalk and couldn't control the fatbike and crossed a cycling lane out of nowhere.
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u/Active-Holiday4959 Jul 20 '25
Pretty sure the bike ain’t the problem… It’s the drivers that should be banned. But like every other “tokkie”problem the law enforcement doesn’t have the capacity, doesn’t see the urgency nor have the guts to respond appropriately. Sad world 😒
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u/Downtown-Pause4994 Jul 21 '25
They don't bother me at all. Kids are going to misbehave anyway, no matter the mode of transport.
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u/Ill-Corgi-8525 Jul 20 '25
Fatbikes attract the most brain-dead idiots. They should be banned in The Hague asap. The fatbikes have zero extra functionality aside from convincing wannabe tough guys who would otherwise never ride a normal ebike (as they deem that uncool) to terrorise bike paths with their antisocial behaviour.
Someone should spray paint these bikes pink or introduce a compulsory helmet law and this dumb fad would be dead overnight